At one of my first games with all active duty Marines (GySgt was the GM) and we were discussing the advantages of Gamers in the military. Gaming is all about problem solving, on many different levels, and communicating. But I guess the IDF has no need for creative problem solving. From the Private to the Lt.Col's I've gamed with, I can only say- their loss! Obviously, going out, getting drunk, and tattooed are much more traditional time honored activities. But hey- should we ever need to fight the IDF, you can be assured that we will win, with skill, tenacity, and creative application of force. With M16 in our hands, and a D-20 in our pockets! A fine yiddish word applies here....Schmucks!

I found this article very ironic. Dungeon & Dragons was developed by the American Army through TSR (Tactical Strategic Recreation). The idea was to introduce young intelligent men to the concepts of leadership, tactics and cooperation.

Weak personality? I don't think so. I am a college student, at a highly ranked private University, Brigham Young University. I along with several of my friends, who also attend BYU and other friends, play Dungeons and Dragons. I and my friends have anything but weak personalities. The people I know who play D&D are some of the strongest-minded, creative, and intelligent people I know. You would think that an army would want creative, intelligent, strong-willed people, but I guess not...oh wait they say they do, but this all sounds like a farce to keep the people out of the army, they claim they are trying to recruit.

I think you're a bit misinformed. TSR actually stood for "Tactical Studies Rules", and had nothing whatsoever to do with the army. http://www.answers.com/topic/tsr-inc-1

Hear, hear! Those college kids are doing something totally wrong- they should be out drinking illegally, experimenting with drugs, pulling mildly harmful pranks on the general populace and possibly coercing their fellow students into unprotected sex- possibly daterape if necessary! THAT's what's wrong with kids these days! Jay- what they're doing is harmless and often helps people with their social skills to interact with somebody- ANYBODY, and it's legal and safe!

well... first of all, after reading both the hebrew and the english versions of the article , i have to say three things : first, the translation is very much like the source , except for one important thing. as a few of you mentioned, the pictures attached are of LARPers. and indeed, the original article is almost exclusively concerned with RD&D, a.k.a LARP. second, the responses on the hebrew version are much more blunt and angry than here. (for understandable reasons). a lot of them are in the line of "great, now i can be exempt from service!". third, the whole issue, including the exact instructions and relevant army laws are vague and non-specific. no named sources are given, and no official response could be obtained; so i'm not sure how 'official' this whole thing is.

The Defense Minister of Israel is a religious zealot idiot!

Anyone remember Alice's Resturant by Arlo Guthrie. It had the same sort of theme to avoid the draft.

I think we should applaud the IDF for figuring out RPG didn't stand for rocket projected grenade, just as we can all take comfort in knowing that when we hear about enemy fire and RPG's, there will be no confusion that someone caught the corner of the Dungeon Master's Guide to the temple.

This is an outrage! Its outrageous!

You gotta be kidding me! D&D is just something to do with your friends when you have a load of free-time. God forbid I should ever go bumbling through the woods in a stupid costume like that! Remember: D&D is a hobby, not a cult! Oh well, it just goes to show, Military Intelligence is an oxymoron.

As a long-playing gamer, it has been my lifelong dream to serve in the Israeli special-ops. I am crushed.

The more I read about this article the more I wonder if the story is real at all or a silly hoax (or religious propaganda accidentally turned into news). Perhaps it is just me, but all the D&D players are identified by name (Matan, 22, and Igor, a 21-year-old) whereas the IDF is quoted completely anonymously: "the army says" "A security official tells Ynet" "a military official says" I mean who/what is the mysterious "David" that appears at the end of the article without prior mention? Re-read this sentence: "the army is...trying to locate soldiers who in their free time dress up as witches and play in forests". And that alone should be enough to blow off the whole story as some kind of nonsense. IDF witch-hunts? Maybe we'll find out that this all started with the ultra-religious fanatics again trying to dissuade kids from playing D&D..."children you'd better not play D&D or you will never be elite and have access to classified information! David, take that skirt off!" Sounds like the US bible-belt circa 1975.

In other words, these people are intelligent, discerning, free thinking adults who can make up their own minds about political issues and are therefore difficult to condition or brainwash.

Duh! _Of course_ D&Ders are being filtered out of certain mission types. Look at the core message of the article -- "creative, intelligent, imaginative people are not suitable for some sorts of army work." In what way is that a surprise?? The armed forces are built on people without the imagination or creativity to think for themselves. The army is NOT a skirmish pack of individual warrior elites. It is a seamless machine made up of -- sadly -- expendable parts. The primary function of each part is to obey orders. The LAST thing any army wants is a creative, imaginative free-thinking individual slipping through the net. Take the fact that the IDF have caught on as a badge of pride, not as an insult.

What about all the folks who believe in invisible deitys floating in the sky? What about their judgment? Do they get sent to psychologists as well?

For years players have been labelled as weird and/or troubled. The truth is, the game actually encourages speed in thinking, decision making, and has been known to improve math skills. If played on a table top, then miniatures can help with tactics and map reading skills. How is this a problem?

Being a Live Action Roleplayer (LARPer) myself and also playing D&D on occasion, the line drawn between the two generally does not exist...for me in any case, so these two separate subjects are going to be considered as one for now. To add onto this, I am a believer of God, have many atheist, empathic gothic, wiccan, Mormon, catholic AND Dutch reformed church friends who do larp with me who have lives that range from being a student studying psychology, to accountants, to those that have no jobs and rely on the government. May I ask...where is the logic of the IDF lays if they consider Gamers to be 'weird', when they seem to populate a larger portion of the intelligence of the world (intelligence is different to smart) and consider very odd and weird articles like this to be a rather good laugh? To point out one particular portion of the article, 'The game indicates a weak personality', I would like to ask yet another question...is there any physical, substantial proof to such claims apart from a random scan to see who may be thinking differently to the 'average norm'? A weak personality is not caused by anything short of upbringing and life experiences. There is a known fact that at basic (under the age of 12)schools there are more children with defensive attitudes and tendencies to try and follow others like sheep then there are at college where most of the Gamers seem to 'come out of the closet'. To see this, one would suppose a weak personality is more shown in the children, where they cannot truly think for themselves and need to be like everyone else so as to fit in. As they grow and mature, the ones who never did quite fit in due to their broader way of thinking and their wish to be more than just a sheep tend to read more books, respect nature just that little bit more and maybe even diversify their creative output in forms of art, writing, music etc... By opening their minds to the world, it is almost inevitable that they will come across acronyms like D&D and LARP and maybe RPGonline (where there is no gamemaster and people generally let their imaginations flow as they create a world and story over the internet with others of varying cultures and nationalities). Some may catch on to the idea, some may let it flow by, in either case...both will usually respect it in some way and those who do not do it will not go as far as to question a person's mental state if they do...it is simply none of their business. If you would want to know my personal experiences with these role-play scenarios, here they are: I have always been different and belittled at school simply because I liked to read and write...and of course, that must mean (to some members of the IDF) that I am already in need of a psychologist due to the fact I used my imagination. LARP I only began in July 2004, and D&D is an enjoyable pastime to spend with a group of rarely seen friends once a month. But in both my 'weak personality' has become non-existent. It improved my social skills, gave me a voice louder than a whisper and made me feel I could really make something of myself due to the uplift of confidence and the gaining of friends. Yes I dress up and wave a sword around, or shake my hand and roll a dice...but really, is that so different to clicking my thumbs over buttons on a game consol or waving my army-supplied rifle around in the air? With both, I would be disconnected also from reality, and considering a rifle actually can kill whereas a foam and rubber sword only leave mild bruises on occasion...I'd take the sword anyday. Being in the army is just another, more real version of role-play...except it actually makes your personality weaker due to you being forced to follow others like a sheep and no longer being able to think for yourself... TBC

Letting those soldiers going out for a RPG game or two would be a better idea, it would help them in thinking and planning ahead for what they will definitely be doing out on the field the following day...and will also ensure their personality doesn’t sink to being weak, instead of the other way round as the IDF seems to think it. Just think about one thing, as a response to comment #78. Would you rather your child be out with other sheep and doing what they do, smoking what they smoke and remaining within their own sphere of 'friends' and quite probably try out a number of health damaging products to simply have fun...or let them sit around a table, talk with friends about the world and/or maybe let their imagination go free for a weekend and go outside. Even if I were not a LARPer, I'd still go for the latter. My children deserve a life of rich diversity and if they want to have a different train of thought and a slightly stronger imagination than most, then they can go for it...because then when reality comes poking it's head in again, they can have better focus and more self esteem in dealing with it. Signing off. Mel

I play these games. I know it is all fake, I don;t take it seriously, I don't own any costumes. I play for the person verus person aspects, and I also play FPS games. These tend to interest me more, because there are more ways to combat one another, rather than using 6 pre-set weapons most FPS have. I know the games and real life are 100% different.

What? Jewish leaders showing disapproval of harmless but nontraditional behavior? When did that start happening? Certainly not in the last few thousand years. Most Jewish leaders distinguished between normal people who counted out 10% of every crop or craft, and the slackers who only gave from earnings. Really, it doesn't surprise me that they aren't any better than the rest of us. And there are problem gamers. And determining security risks is partly a guessing game. I hope the US military is making its judgments on a more individual basis.

From my otherworldly gamer perspective, I would say its the Israeli Likud government that is detached from reality when they think continually expanding the settlements on the West Bank has worked so well and ought to continue, building a wall inside the West Bank instead of on its edge is good policy, all the problems are the Palestinians' fault, and they will achieve peace that way. But, being such a head-in-the-clouds gamer playing lots of D&D, diplomatic and historical wargames, and observing their diplomatic and military situation in the news every day or two for thirty odd of my 40+ years, what would I know about it? It must be my weak personality.

Makes me glad I live in America. This article simply demonstrates how close minded the Israeli government is. Saying that people who play D&D are easily influenced or have weak personalities is just like saying that those who listen to Heavy Metal worship the devil. (I don't worship the devil.) Might as well say that all those who practice Islam are terrorists. (They are, right?)

... I've delivered a lot of D&D stuff and other FRP stuff to our soldiers & Marines. One noncom going back for his 2nd deployment in Iraq told me specifically that the game was good for relaxing his guys in an environment where other entertainment options are very, very limited ... e.g. you can't just go for a stroll at night. Indeed, role-play can build team cohesion and identify personal conflicts in a low-risk way. When the chips are down, a soldier risks his life for his squaddies, not an abstraction. Whatever builds loyal to the squad is a plus.

Gential mutilation of male infants for G-d (including mouth-gential blood sucking by Rabbi) : SANE "There are two toilets on every floor, but the [IDF] soldiers urinated and defecated everywhere else in the building, in several rooms of which they had lived for about a month." : SANE "Twelve (years old) and up, you're allowed to shoot. That's what they tell us... I don't know if this is what the IDF says to the media. - IDF Sniper" : SANE Playing An RPG: INSANE Quotes From Harretz

"These people have a tendency to be influenced by external factors which could cloud their judgment..." Not to be sexist but a strategically dressed attractive woman would probably have more pull on me giving away sensitive information than some bloke threatening me with a baubled stick "This is a wand! You know what it can do! Now give me the passcodes!!"... The IDF should also ask as one of its questions: Do you or have you in your entire life ever looked at porn and enjoyed yourself? It holds the same relevancy to D&D... less than zero.

Once again the theists leave me dumbfounded... haven't felt like this since TSR took a big hit from the media in the 80's. I thought ignorant thngs like this were behind us. Here's to the same argument in another 20 yrs.

I've played DnD for many years, but I've not heard of R DnD. What is it? Is it like a LARP-DnD hybrid or something? (I usually associate LARPs with Vampire: the Whining, but I know there's others. It's just an unfortunate association)

Little bit of a harsh response, eh, guys? I know that I would feel a little better, a little safer if the US Military took the same approach. RPGers are by nature escapist and (it has been my experience) LACK in imagination and creativity. Please understand, it's not that we who live in the real world are against you. Rather, we think of you as, well, silly. And who wants a military composed of silly, easily compromised soldiers. Really, not trying to be mean here, but being an RPGer is a MARKER - something to indicate the POSSIBLITY of the susceptibility to influence. If you really are the creative and gentile folk you claim to be, why would you have a problem with spending 45 minutes on a couch to prove it? Just a thought.

I lust started playing D&D a little while ago,and when I told my parents that i wanted to play they were a little hesitant to let me. They had heard all the rumors about poeple taking it to seriously and using real swords and people getting hurt, but I knew it was nothing like that, and they let me play, and I like it alot. It gives me something to do. D&D, to me, is a more active, more fun alternative to watching tv, how could my parents argue with that.