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IDF soldier killed in Gaza
By Ali Waked and Hanan Greenberg
Published: 19.06.05, 17:48
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26 Talkbacks for this article
1. Misuse of the term 'terrorist'
accessol ,   Spelthorne, England   (06.19.05)
A people under military occupation has the right and even the duty to resist. Therefore the sub-heading on this article "Palestinian terrorists fire two anti-tank missiles at IDF troops.." is inacurate. A more honest headline could have made use of the term "Palestinian resistance" or "Palestinian fighters".
2. resistance
non ,   palestine   (06.19.05)
the issue is Israeli occupation and palestinaian resistance, no terror is there. if you give our land, I will give you PEASE. otherwise before, no solutions are there but just crise management
3. # 1-2
uzziel   (06.19.05)
# 1- There s no such a thing like "military occupation", because these lands have never been "palestinian". And of course this people are arab terrorists, their objective is to intimidate, by the way of terror, the civilian population of Israel in the pursuit of their criminal and unjust goals: stealing the land. #2- It is quiet funny u say that " If you gie our land I will give you PEASE" That s what Israel is actually doing and you don t stop shooting, not only inside Gaza, but inside the Green Line. You are a bunch of murderers, liars and thieves, and you won t stop even if you succeed to steal all of Judea, Samaria and Gaza. We both know that.
4.  Sharon Is responsible
adel ,   Palestine   (06.19.05)
I think Mr Sharon Is responsible for the continuation of violence. Why to continue hunting Islamic Jihad memmbers In the West Bank despite the truce declaid in Cairo> Stop lilling Palestinians violence will stop.
5. Sharon is lazy
omar omar ,   xxx   (06.19.05)
This is way the solider killed .If Sharon moved his troops and settlers earlier and faster from Gazza, that may not happened and the solider will still be alive .
6. Misuse of terms sicko
Charles ,   Herzliya   (06.19.05)
The person who wrote the misuse of the terms is a terrorist himself. They are not palestinian fighters but terrorists and murderers who do not deserve to be classified as even human beings.
7. Not Really
Fadi ,   FL, USA   (06.19.05)
Maybe this attack wasn't a terrorist attack, but the resistance has some unacceptable methods that can be considered terrorism. That's why they are called terrorists, even though it really doesn't work well with them, with their cause.
8. Uzziel says "You are a bunch of murderers,liars and thieves"
accessol ,   Spelthorne, England   (06.19.05)
In his intemporate language so typical of Israel's supporters throughout the world, whose only defence for the awful realization of Herzl's dream (or rather nightmare), is abuse, due to the fact that by any accepted human civilised standards Israel is guilty of the most outrageous and horrendous crimes, Uzziel says "You are a bunch of murderers, liars and thieves". I must assume that these remarks were made whilst he was shaving this morning.
9. Objection to response 1
Moran ,   Tel-Aviv   (06.19.05)
Although the Palestians are under the IDF's control, it does not give them any legitimation to kill soldiers as there is a truce and they might gladly accept it if they want to gain control and have the IDF out of Gaza, and BTW whose side are you? You live far away and attempt to determine what the right terminology is when you know nothing about suicide bombers in Tel-Aviv killing innocent children. Nope, they are not palestinian fighters and no heros but murders and obstacles to the peace process, and if there terittory is occupied you might as well wonder why and it is not because one can coexist with them...so before you comment better think twice cause when was the last time you suffered from terror attacks in Britian? hard to recall cause you haven't had any so please be more careful and wise before you grant murders respect by calling them otherwise!
10. "resistance"
Ron ,   Canada   (06.19.05)
Anyone who calls the killing of innocent bystanders in café's and on the street "resistance fighting" is a terrorist themself..
11. accessol
Uzziel   (06.19.05)
Not really, just whilst reading your (Eurabians´) posts. You accuse Israel of "occupation", but you cant prove that. By any standard this is a false statement. No land obtained in a defensive war is "occupied", specially if these lands are the cradle of the people of Israel since 4.000 years ago. And lest it is occupied to the "palestinians", unless you can prove that such an entity has ever existed in all the human history.They are, a very few of them, the successors of the arab occupiers (seventh century) who settled the land before 1.948, and the immense majority of the rest are arab inmigrants with no bonds to the land, later than a century. They were the arabs ( from neighbouring countries like egypt, syria, lebanon, etc) attracted by the successive jewish aliyas that created job opportunities for them. Either you are an ignorant, or like the arab posters here a racist and a liar.
12. have to agree with abuse of terminology
edward ,   las vegas   (06.19.05)
do jews ever write an article that doesnt contain the word terror? it is so overused it no longer carries any meaning. this is an occupation soldier, like all israelis over 18. sorry but you shouldnt be participating in an illegal occupation but should instead refuse. theres no way this is a 'terrorist attack'. they have the right to resist occupation, and the terror soldiers should respect that.
13. Definition of terror and occupation
Eyal ,   Jburg, South Africa   (06.19.05)
The statement in the artilce by groups such as Islamic Jihad "armed groups have threatened in recent days to break their truce, saying Israel violates it by targeting terrorists" means that IJ either sides with the terrorists or that it is itself a terrrorist organisation. They say so to our faces but nobody seems to notice?! Bizarre Who ever heard of anyonte sympathising with someone who said, "You hit me before I hit you. So now I am going to promise you that I am going to hit you. Just you try and hit me again!" Huh? Boys n the Hood logic! The language of thugs. As for the "occupation". Any look at a map will show you that the Gaza Strip and W.Bank were occupied by Egypt and Jordan until they were taken from these nations after they unlawfully attacked Israel in 67. This is history. Palestinian PR says the land is theirs and therefore the Gaza Strip and W.Bank are occupied Palestinian territory. But that is not the case. History shows that. If anyone should be clamouring to get their occupied territory back it should be the Jordanians and the Egyptians. But they are not. Which proves the palestinian claims are false. However, as Goebbels said, if you repeat the lie often enough, everyone will believe you. And they have. And we all did. Sad.
14. to the english 1
TASH ,   ISRAEL   (06.19.05)
what a shock to hear an english person say such a thing. did u know that this solider was there bc the day b4 the arabs attacked jewish homes with no reason? so shut the hell up.
15. The dogs bark but the caravan moves on
alan ,   south africa   (06.19.05)
Readers and contributors to these distinguished columns must understand why people like accessol and similar respondents from Europe and UK are thinking what they are thinking... ..In the UK today and Europe in general there is a wave of Anti Israel sentiment that is totally blind hatred. The media is virtually 100% anti Israel (and Anti US and Anti Bush).The news on TV is carefully treated so as to delete for example the current lawlessness on the West Bank and Gaza ,but show every Israeli move in the worst way...Can you imagine if Israel would do to Arabs what Mugabe does in Zimbabwe Burn their homes in Winter... But they say little about this . How many peole died in Congo .6 Million. Nothing.. they are only Black! .....This has as a spinoff, a wave of Jewhatred that daily makes itself felt..Even the dead cant rest in the Jewish cemetaries in the uk and Europe.The response of these people is to claim that"because I am Anti Israel it doesnt mean I am a Jewhater"... That sounds reasonable but the violence against Jewish citizens in UK and many European countries belies this claim...In the UK election just held, there were many incidents and stories around Jews. Labour party posters of Mr Howard the conservative leader (a Jew) portrayed him as a flying pig. Also as a scoundrel Fagin from English litterature. Many many others..To seperate the Jewhating from the Israelhating is as difficult as seperating the milk from a cup of tea. Believe me ,nothing short of closing down Israel and handing over the keys will satisfy them. As the Arab saying goes," the dogs bark but the caravan moves on" We must move on.
16. to idiot englishman number 1
Frank   (06.19.05)
Eh guy i think you will not open your bigmouth front of an israeli soldier...This land is our land since the biblical times and ''palestinians'' didn' t exist until the XXth century..they are arabs and arabs have alrady 22 states so don' t bother us stupid englishman. they attack us so they are terrorists because their ideology is to kill Jews.
17. additional points to 15
alan ,   south africa   (06.19.05)
If I can add to my number 15... What I wrote in 15 is just the one side. The other side is that Europe is in a big mess as well today despite the poison they write about Israel... All the EURO countries are in an economic and political backslide . The EURO turned out bad. The Majority of Italians Germans Dutch and French wish they can have their old currency back!OK Britain is NOW not doing too bad... but the population is overborrowed and most families have massive credit debts. Blair quarrels with lame duck Chirac and Chirac calls him "pathetique" and "tragique"..The European Constitution referendum ended in a defeat... France blames UK and UK blames France.BUT here is my point... a hell of a lot of the French and Dutch are terrified of the new people from the Middle East.So a very very very small cause of the defeated referendums was this fear . Even in France , how many dont want Turkey to join the EU? Also Germany. So you see the European Media is making a character assasination of Israel 60 years after they wiped out European Jews- but the people of Europe ,I think,are frightened of the the people the Media are trying to champion at the expense of Israel and the Jews.The Europeans killed 6 million Jews to make room for them.!
18. to accessol the pohmy #1,8 & Ed#12
Ian ,   Sydney Australia   (06.20.05)
I dont care what terminology you want to use I dont mind if they attack soldiers (even during a so called cease-fire, hudna). Soldiers dont volunteer in kravi units because they dont want to fight. They are well aware of the dangers. However if palestinians do attack soldiers they must be prepared to face the consequences. The problem is when they attack non-combatants, intentionally, time and time again, or at the very least attempt to do so. Thats what makes them terrorists. Just because theyre attacking soldiers this week and non-combatants next week only doesnt mean they cease being terrorists for a week. accessol you obviously forgot the IRA bombings in london and brighton? Or did you forget your governments assasination of 2 Provisional IRA men in gibraltar because they were planning to bomb parliament? Have a chat with the family members of the deceased and then by all means post something utterly daft again. Ed, put down your guns, and invite osama to ram more aircraft into american cities. Let us know how it goes. Turning the other cheek is a christian idea, not a Jewish one - we have brains, and we're not prepared to sit on our hands and do nothing. If you want to, by all means go ahead and be a martyr.
19. Peace lovinganti semites
Sam ,   Tzfat   (06.20.05)
I hope all of you people which call these terrorists resistance fighters, lose a child from one of their "friendly peace loving bullets ". Then will see if they still are peace loving non terrorists. From England its east to be anti semitic. Aint cost a cent and its not your son being buried.
20. We won't mention DeirYassin,Qybia,Goldstein,Tantura, Jenin..
accessol ,   Spelthorne, England   (06.20.05)
It is no answer to the accusation that this was a misuse of the term terrorist to list out a load of shtuyot about Europe, the UK, the bible and similar mumbo jumbo. Leaving aside some other actions which might or might not correctly be described as terror (like bombing and killing 15 civilians in Gaza in an attempt to assassinate an Hamas leader, or shooting children throwing stones at tanks) the fact remains that this particular incident was an attack against the armed soldiers of an occupying army, which is both legally and morally justified. In the present confrontation the justice of the Palestinian cause is unassailable.
21. Many more Palestinian kids killed by Israel than vice versa
accessol ,   Spelthorne, England   (06.20.05)
Sam writes "I hope all of you people which call these terrorists resistance fighters, lose a child from one of their "friendly peace loving bullets ". " Admitedly it doesn't get widely reported in Israel or the US or in Europe so you maybe do not know that in the 2nd Intifada 4 times the number of Palestinian children were killed than Israeli, and the figure for injured is much much greater amongst Palestinian children. Palestinians love their children as much as if not more so than the Israelis. The reason for the difference is that Israel has an highly trained army with very deadly US supplied arms and whereas the Palestinians mainly have only stones and a few home made bombs and justice on their side.
22. accessol
(06.20.05)
Ahahahahah You're an idiot, still spreading the lie of Jenin. The one that even al-Jazeera admits that there was no massacre. Or Tantura which was proven false in a court of law, and even called false by Benny Morris. Using Goldstien is a pretty crappy example, because he is hated throughout most of Israeli society. But considering that sports teams are named after sucide bombers the hypocracy is amazing. And deir yassin, which is even admitted by Bir ziet university that less than a 110 people were killed. Or would like to explain why the Iraqi army was stationed in the village and why over 20 irregular fighters were killed in the process of the "massacre". Or would also like to dicuss Yad Mordechai, Nitzanim, Kfar Etzion, Kfar Darom, Hadassah hospital convoy, the pogroms of the of 1920,1929, and 1936. Or the way the first target of any arab army was Israeli civilian areas? Also you talk about that airstrike, true that 10 (yet again pumping up numbers) people were killed. But, first off by international law they are the repsonsibility of the Hamas leader. Secondly this bombing killed less people than suicide bombings. Also you try to say that kids are only armed with "stones". So please explain why people are constantly being caught with pipe bombs and molotov cocktails. I don't think they are carrying them for decoration. Then you go off and try to say that palestinians love their children more than Israeli's. So why do they view them as great vessels to carry weapons and a nice homing weapon? Also would like to explain why over 90% of those kids killed are boys? And would you like to admit how the vast majority got killed? You know, when throwing those pipe bombs and molotovs you know your version of "stones". Also the palestinians have no moral ground. The territory is not theirs. FACT, the territory was originally promised to the Jews by the League of nations and in the conference of san remo. Then it was controlled by the british who controlled/owned over 70% of the mandate (meaning that it didn't belong to the arabs). Then the "west bank and gaza" were taken over by Jordan and Egypt respectively. The PLO was created in 1964, so which territory were they claiming at the creation and even till today? Hmm.. (I'll let you guess that one). And also please explain how attacking Israeli civilians is part of the terrorism you call resistance. The fact is that the "palestinians" don't have a leg to stand on. They have no morality, with attacking civilians as their first priority. They have no right to the territory, and hell they aren't even a different group. They are just arabs who adopted the name "palestinian". As apparent by this http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/nytimes/104360741.html?did=104360741&FMT=ABS&FMTS=AI&date=Nov+1%2C+1947&author=&desc=PALESTINIAN+COUPLE+ENROLLS+AT+FORDHAM The side of justice and morality only stands with Israel, FACT!
23. Nelson Mandela was a "terrorist"
mr. Palestine ,   Palestine   (06.20.05)
According to the comrades in ideology to the Zionists, the Afrikaner whites used to label Mr. Nelson Mandella and the ANC by "Terrorism", so was the yelllow journalism of white South Africa. therfore, I do not think that (modeling itself after White SA) Israel, Israelis and its sympathizers would do much better, like those responses on the talk back and in articles written by Yediot Ahranot .
24. To 23 LOL
(06.20.05)
Ahh yes trying to compare this to Apartheid south africa. The biggest difference that can be stated FLAT OUT. Is that Mandela was a CITIZEN of SA. The 'palestinians' are not Israeli citizens, fact. The unbelievably weak arguement of "apartheid" is further destroyed by the palestinian vision of "no Jews". The constant complaint about the barrier, but in the end, whose going to be living on each side of the fence. On one side we have Jews and Arabs which will be Israel. And on the other "Palestinians" will (if they get their way completely) a pure ethnic arab state. Actually the term apartheid does work for this area. The palestinians want to create a arab apartheid. With the Jewish populations living in dhimmi status, second class citizen status. And finally Mandela targeted Government and Military positions first. The terrorists "palestinians" always choose to attack Israeli civilians as the first option. So the term terrorists is fitting, and as well apartheid. Since the palestinians are demanding that an arab apartheid society be built.
25. to Sam # 19
Dr. Historian ,   amman   (06.20.05)
Can you imagine to be a father of six children murdered by the Israelis? can you imagine to be a parent to Iman Al Humms, 12 student, who was murdered, in close range, by 25 good "Semetic" bullets, fired by an IDF officer? Can you imaagine to be parents of 1500 Palestinian children whom been murdered by the "good ordarly IDF" soldiers? Or you can not see them as humans, only you can see your own. and that is called sad.
26. To 25
(06.20.05)
Your friend says about 1000 kids have been killed http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3095267,00.html Whats with the descrepency of numbers? And actually it's quite easy, to imagine that. A man lost his entire family, wife, sons, daughters, when a terrorists came into his house and cold bloodedly killed each person in the house. Also would you mind stating what Iman Al Humms was doing, let me guess throwing "rocks" or the code word for pipe bombs. I find it amazing that you say complain about not being seen as human, when you act as if you superior to everyone else.
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