Jewish Scene
Raise the kids Jewish or Christian?
By Jim Keen
Published: 24.08.05, 14:17
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1. Comment
Lenny ,   USA   (08.24.05)
It might sound extreme but the fact is that the daughters of the author are full fledged Jews, if their mother is Jewish. Its not about religion or culture, and its not about family or friends; its about something more. According to Torah, they are full Jews who have upon themselves a different path in life than a non-Jew. The non-Jew has a G-d given path as well, but it is not the same one as the Jew. In other words, the issue is not faith vs family vs another faith vs who knows what. The issue is what G-d has to say on the matter. And He clearly issued different paths for Jews and LHavdil non-Jews to follow. There is no contradiction- the non-Jew should be happy at fulfilling G-d's wishes, just as the Jew should be happy at his lot. But they are not the same. Best of wishes to all involved, but I truly think that if someone wants a decent marriage, then they should marry inside of their 'faith'. In other words, if one wishes for a truly lofty and holy marriage which has potential to rise beyond the mundane, then a Jew should marry a Jew and a non-Jew should marry a non-Jew. A common ground is fine (such as 'we both believe in One G-d' etc.), but it limits one from reaching far beyond that. A good example might be an army: you have fighter pilots and you have foot soldier as well as navy people etc... Each one has a very strong role, however none are greater vs the other. A foot soldier or navy person should'nt decide to fly the plane just because 'we're all the same inside'. He should fly the plane if he's a pilot. And likewise the fighter pilot shouldnt join the ground troops just because 'I'm a regular guy as well...' Together we will make this world a perfect place; but together also demands knowledge of roles and positions. The Jewish role in this world throughout the ages has been and is different than the non-Jewish one. And vice versa as well.
2. The 2 Are Mutually Exclusive, Therefore:
Yishai Kohen ,   YeShA, Israel   (08.24.05)
If the mother is Jewish, the kids should be raised Jewish. If the mother is not Jewish, then the kids should not be led astray to believe that they're Jewish. They're not. They can be good people and not be Jewish, but to raise non-Jewish kids as Jews is pointless- even destructive. Unless they formally convert- according to Halacha, then they're not Jewish.
3. MIXED MARRIAGES DON'T WORK-I'M A CONVERT, I KNOW
AKIVA ,   CHICAGO, IL   (08.24.05)
I converted to Judaism. My parents were Catholic and Evangelical Christians and fought like cats and dogs. What do you think you're doing to your kids by mixing Judaism and Christianity. Think more of your family, and less with the brains below your belt.
4. #1 - No, not according to "Torah"
(08.24.05)
According to Talmud. If that's true then King David id not Jewish. In truth they are 50% Jewish/non Jewish.
5. re. 'who is a Jew?'
Lenny ,   USA   (08.24.05)
Someone can be an amazong person- even an angel- but that does not make them a Jew. A Jew is someone who is either born to a Jewish mother, or converts according to Judaism. I dont know about the issue of King David, but the only non-Jewish blood that was in his line (that I know of) was Ruth. However I believe that first of all she did in fact convert, and secondly, it seems that she was an ancestor from his *fathers* side and not even his mother's. In the long run, labeling a Jew as a Jew and a non-Jew as a non-Jew will only prevent much pain. While some people may feel 'cant we all just be one big happy family? Cant kids born to Jewish father's join the club...?' however this idea is first off simply not Judaism- it can be a man-made idea of Jewishness, it can be an ideal which was derived from 'Jewish feelings' etc... but it cannot be called Judaism. Its like a a 'short long road'- in the long run it would bring pain to the kids and the family. Please ask people who have been mixed into this kind of thing- many have Lo Aleinu gone through this type of thing and had much pain going through it. Again, it does not make the person any less of a human being or a good person- only he is simply not considered a *Jewish* person. There are parts of the Torah which are specifically for all mankind- they include the Seven Noahide Laws as well as other principles. However a Jew was given a different set of 'Mitzvot' to live by. Man didnt choose this- it was G-d who did. If one believes this unfair, then thats their feeling and it should surely be thought through. However this cannot change a reality, namely that there is a guideline which G-d did in fact lay out. If we want to make this world a true dwelling place for mankind and G-d as one, then it does require 'separation for the sake of unity'. Much as an army follows strict guidelines (which include absolute separation of units and groups etc.) precisely in *order* to have a true unity of the troops. However their ultimate goal is exactly the same. The entire army have one objective, even though their methods are different.
6. to #1, where?
Yehoshua ,   Jerusalem   (08.24.05)
where is it written in the torah that judaism follows the mother? it's a rabbinical opinion that turned into a law in the middle ages. it IS written in the torah that the tribe follows the father. so if someone is born to a non-jewish woman but a jewish father do they still belong to the tribe??? they still have jewish blood no? how do you explain that?there is no difference in amount of jewish blood in their bodies, is there? the rabbis should be concerned if they receive a jewish education or not.
7. 4 - you mean david's grandfather obed - did he convert?
mike ,   usa   (08.24.05)
did david's grandfather convert since he wasn't jewish according to halacha? what about rahab's descendants? are they not jewish, too?
8. Reply To Akiva
Bat Kohen ,   USA   (08.24.05)
Akiva, the reply you wrote in regard to this article was not only uncaring but downright insulting and offensive. As a Jewish person you are not allowed to write in such a nasty way. In addition, this man clearly loves and values his wife and duaghters, he states that they were involved for years before their marriage and now have 2 teenage girls. This is very clearly not a young hot blooded man. I suggest that if you have anything to say that is constructive and positive do so, if not please learn more about Jewish behavior towards others before you write your next post. Thank you.
9. Mixed Marriage
Alex ,   Australia   (08.25.05)
Who we get involved with and marry is a matter of choice and sometimes even if we are attracted to someone who we know is not right for us we can make a decision too break if off so my point is that you have the choice, if you want a jewish family and your kids to grow up jewish then don't get involved with a non-jew. It is very easy to say you 'fell in love' but if you really care about your jewish future you make an effort to meet and socialise with other jews. I don't buy this 'you can't choose who you fall in love with' that is just a crock. And to spend years together before marriage and then decide what the children will be, is just plain silly, you knew from the start you were from different faiths, if your faith matters to you so strongly then stick with it, don't continue a relationship you know will be problematic.
10. Re. 'who is a Jew?'
Lenny ,   USA   (08.25.05)
From the context of several places in Torah it is very clear that 'Jewishness' is passed down from the mother. It isnt a made up thing. There are many places online which seem to speak about this as well. (Incidentally, one cannot bring proofs from before the giving of the Torah- ie. Abraham, Isac, Jacob etc.- being that the giving of the Torah solidified a set of 'rules' which are/were unchangeable from then on.) All the best, Lenny
11. Link
Lenny ,   USA   (08.25.05)
http://www.whoisajew.com/
12. Why I made aliyah
Eyal ,   Tlv.il   (08.25.05)
An event that contributed significantly to my aliyah was an ex-friend who, after having married a Jewess, declared that his child would "never be raised Jewish after what they had done to the poor Palestinians." lol. Well, I'm here now and I hope to get married sometime soon. Our children will be Jewish and they will be proud of their heritage and their land.
13. Who Were Avraham's Descendents?
Matt Berlin ,   Pennsylvania, USA   (08.25.05)
If it is true that a child is Jewish if only the mother is Jewish, then Avraham had no children of his faith. Neither did Yosef, and some of David's descendents were not Jewish either. This idea that a mother must be Jewish in order to have Jewish children does not stand up against the Torah.
14. "Jewish" and "Christian"
Glenn Bolan ,   Los Angeles   (08.25.05)
It is interesting to me how different these two have become... up until 128 C.E./A.D. "Christianity" was just considered a sect within Judaism. Yeshua (Jesus) was Jewish and all of His early followers were Jewish. The "Bible" that Yeshua and the early Christian congregations used (and still use) was/is the Tanakh. The "New Testament" or "B'rit Chadasha" is simply just a historical record of the early Messianic Congregations ("Christian Churches)". The B'rit Chadasha introduces absolutely no new doctrine; it is thoroughly Jewish. It only claims Jer (Yir) 31:30-36 as having been ushered in by Yeshua and claiming Him to be the Messiah spoken of in the Tanakh. Nothing new; only Judaism in the promised new covenant (Jer 31) and the promised Messiah who would come before the destruction of the Second Temple (Dan 9:20-27) to "put an end to the transgression, make and end of sin, forgive iniquity and bring everlasting justice." ... ... ... Just my thoughts. Shalom.
15. From a christian
peggy ,   Greece   (08.26.05)
Judaism and Christianism belong to the same tree.They have the same trunk but they are different branches.During Byzantine Empire the emperors and later the Catholic church and the Popes have changed lots of things in worship and service.The same must have happened to ALL the religions.I do not know about Catholics, but Cristians Orthodox are being taught in schools all the old testament .As i see it it's the story of Jews until the birth of Jesus.
16. #13
hanina ,   Galut   (08.26.05)
Hey that's not true. After Sarah died, Avraham remarried Ishmael's mother who converted to Judaism and her name was katura. However all of their sons were bad and Avraham kicked them out of the house. Yosed married a Jewish girl, the daughter of Dina who was raped by that prince. The brothers put a necklace around her with a Jewish star when they gave her away. It was this woman that married Yosef. He kept Shabbat and the dietary laws while he was viceroy of Egypt. Yosef was a good guy.
17. @14
hanina ,   Galut   (08.26.05)
Wow are you wrong!! J's followers were not Jewish since the Rabbis refused to convert them. Paul who claimed he was Saul never had a conversion. In fact Paul who was a Roman policeman turned in his OWN parents for believing in one G-d. What a shmuck! J tried to teach Torah to Romans without making them keep our laws, dietary or Shabbat and he skipped over laws of mikvah for family purity and conversion since the Romans didn't want to go all the way. And your new testament is trying to introduce something new. If you read and understand Hebrew you'll see over and over again how Hashem says he will never give over his glory to anyone else. Hashem says don''t change anything and if someone makes you accept another book, stone him!
18. peggy, you are right
(08.26.05)
but that doesnt make it right for a bunch of jews from brooklyn or christians from the usa to go to PALESTINE and kill children and take land. obviously the retreat from GAZA is a start in the right direction. the jews have just got to quit bumming US tax dollars!! its so annoying. and according to jew law, yes, one must be born to a jew mother- I find this gives the women alot of power, actually, but I believe this was first made law because who Knew who the father was, back then>
19. The comment was not posted
Lenny ,   USA   (08.30.05)
I believe that I tried to post a comment which answered both #13 and #14 at length, but I do not see it posted here. If you still have it, please do post it. It explains A- why Jews are determined from the mother, even though before the giving of the Torah this was not the case, and B- who and what the Messiah/Moshiach is in Judaism, and why the xtian messiah/god is simply incompatible with the Jewish one (ie. there is a good reason why Jews havent prescribed to their messiah for 2000 years- being that Judaism has its roots and soul in the original *source* of that religion in the first place, and thus have a very clear understanding of who is/can be the Messiah and who cannot be. May the *real* Messiah be revealed immediately!)
20. born to mixed marriage
Nate ,   USA   (08.30.05)
I am born to a mixed marriage. It is a joke. It follows american marketing, potato latkes and sales at the local mall. Obviously neither person really cares about their religion, or maybe never even thought about it really. Bottom line, as the kids grow, they realize the hipocracies, choose one, convert, or choose neither, and follow a cultural existance. Bottom line: bad idea. Jews have their law, and christians have their law (to convert Jews) It's a contradiction and bad for both, once the children are old enough to have intellegence.
21. Results of such a marriage
Lenny ,   USA   (08.30.05)
It is seen probably in the vast majority of such marriages: once the 'bottom line' develops- ie. who and what are we? what do we believe? what are we here for? etc...- there is an impossible problem that is faced. And I have heard of many many cases of people coming to the Rabbi and saying 'at this point in my life I would like to become more observant and get more into my Jewishness, but I have a non-Jewish wife and with their upbringing, the children wouldnt care about such things even if they were in fact Jewish...' And the Rabbi has very little to provide in terms of a solution. He encourages him to continue in his path towards being more of a 'practicing Jew', but as far as the family etc., this is simply a major obstacle for the person. And this isnt even taking into consideration the idea of the nature of the marriage itself at that point. How can one face their wife and say 'I truly want to be Jewish above all else', even if the wife has no interest in it at all. Or even if she does, suppose she simply agrees to 'go along' with it, but to him it means so much more. The same thing goes for a scenario with a Jewish woman, though it probably plays out differently... I think that the bottom line is this: separation for the sake of unity is a very intelligent concept. Man does not have to be the 'same' to be equal and united. Much as different units in an army- there need not be one single unit which are all alike in order to have unity. In fact, the true unity comes about when you have some who are fighter pilots, some who are foot soldiers, and others who are marine core... etc. If Jews realize that marrying a Jew is important, then many problems can be avoided. And it would help prevent problems for the non-Jews who could have been involved as well.
22. Re. Article
Lenny ,   USA   (08.30.05)
In truth, I think that it would be very unhealthy for the kids. Imagine the kids going to school and knowing that unlike their classmates, their own father is no Jewish, and has no desire to become Jewish. I think that in the long run either the kids would have issues (eg. internal confusion,) or the husband there would convert. Because its just not right to do that to kids. There has to be some sort of coherence in their life- and it should begin at home.
23. Inter-Faith Children
Paul ,   Toronto   (09.12.05)
This couple seems to made a very thoughtful & determined effort to give their children a religous home, under difficult circumstances. Many people, especially Christians, don't alway realize the benefits of this. We live in a very secular time. But I think they were very lucky to do what they could (compromise) and still give their children a Jewish Religous education as well. Many parents give up on their responsibility in such a difficult situation.
24. mixed marriage
natalie ,   tel aviv   (09.13.05)
As the daughter of a mixed marriage I feel that my life has been enriched by the coming together of two cultures and two faiths. I have never experienced confusion or an identity crisis about who or what I am. I have learned to respect other people's faiths and beliefs, to keep an open mind and to ask questions. I strongly feel that if a couple love each other, show each other respect and communicate with each other, the family base will remain strong.
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