Opinion  Torah Portion
Parshat Re'eh: No Jerusalem in Torah
Avraham Burg
Published: 02.09.05, 09:59
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1. Jerusalem
Florida ,   Boca Raton, Florida   (09.02.05)
I love the mixture of religions in Jerusalem and the unique spiritual aura in this special city. In the 1970's it felt peaceful...people interacted with one another...it was a magnificent place to live. However, I felt most connected to G-d, when was in the Sinai desert.
2. I guess that makes East Jerusalem free..
Abdullah ,   Kuwait City   (09.02.05)
for the Palestinians to make it their own capital of the future Palestinian state. :) Shalom
3. Parshat Re'eh: No Jerusalem in Torah
Ceaser ,   Boca Raton, FL   (09.02.05)
Is there a shortage of Torah Scholars in Israel? Can't you find somebody on this planet who can write something about the weekly Parsha that is an accurate understanding of Torah as our Sages taught? In these times,so many people, Jews and non-Jews alike are crying out for a little bit of this knowledge. They want to know. What is the matter with the editorial staff of this paper and website? Don't you know what you are doing? Burg may have many fine qualities but he is no Torah Sage. You are promoting a totally false knowledge of Torah. This is a sin. Now you know, "Sin no more"! You should be ashamed of yourselves.
4. And wan't the message clear to King David?
Ilan ,   Ariel   (09.02.05)
Avrum can be excused for not having heard of David HaMelech, after all what is a king compared to the former head of the Jewish Agency (good way to acquire a dreidel collection) and former speaker of the Knesset.
5. Yes, but the Torah is a small portion from the Bible
(09.02.05)
and Jerusalem is mentioned 1000 times in the bible.
6. Did you ever hear of the Akeidah
Bernard Moskowitz ,   Cincinnati, Ohio   (09.02.05)
As usual Mr Burg twists the Torah to make it what he wants. The Torah specifically talks how the almost sacrifice of Issac was on the Temple Mount. "And Abraham saw THE PLACE from afar. What about Jacob resting his head to sleep? By the way it mentions Beit El. I guess then to his logic we can't give that back.
7. Tee-hee; he's right
Eyal ,   Tlv.il   (09.02.05)
As the Torah is the central point of "The Bible" [IMHO the rest is all historical commentary] we should note that God never mentioned Jlem or any such place. King David only moved the Jewish capital there after having been urged to do so - IT WAS A POLITICAL MOVE; MUCH THE SAME AS THE MOVE TO DECLARE AL QUDS AS THE SITE WHERE MOHAMMED ROSE TO HEAVEN. Both events had nothing to do with God; and more to do with mythologies concocted to ensure political agendas. Jlem, of course is a sacred site; beneath the Temple Mount there lie the holy wells, sacred to the pagan Jebusaites who lived there. It was this pagan site David went to worship at before he set up camp to claim Jlem for the Jewish capital. In so doing he placated the "natives "; showed everyone the power of the Jews and avoided a conflict. Which is why the Muslims built the Dome of the Rock in the first place - to show they were in charge. In time, all worship, both pagan and jewish, took place on top of the sacred wells.
8. Bad News For Cousin Abdullah- As Always
Yishai Kohen ,   YeShA, Israel   (09.02.05)
The "Palies" aren't going to have a state- not here anyway, and obviously, we're not going to give them any part of OUR city of Jerusalem. Feel free to give them Dubai if you want though. Oh yeah, I forgot- you Kuwaitis don't like them either (you expelled 400,000 after they supported Saddam). For over 3,300 years, Jerusalem has been the Jewish capital. Jerusalem has never been the capital of any Arab or Muslim entity. Even when the Jordanians occupied Jerusalem, they never sought to make it their capital, and Arab leaders did not come to visit. Jerusalem is mentioned over 700 times in the Bible (Tanach). Jerusalem is not mentioned once in the Koran (if you think it is, give us an exact reference to a Sura in the Quran where it's mentioned). King David founded the city of Jerusalem. Mohammed never even came to Jerusalem (if you think he did, give us an exact reference to a Sura in the Quran where it's mentioned). Jews pray facing Jerusalem. Muslims in Jerusalem pray with their backs toward Jerusalem and towards Mecca. :-)
9. Response to Yishai (post 8)
Abdullah ,   Kuwait City   (09.02.05)
I assure you dear cousin, East Jerusalem will be given back by a right wing Israeli hawk exactly as Gaza was given back, just sit back and observe ;-)
10. Nablus
Yalti ,   United States   (09.02.05)
According to this, we have to declare Nablus as an inseperable part of Israel! But another point: Free choice vs G-d's Will. If man chooses not to follow His Will, that is the free choice. The question of 'where is there room for choice in His commandments?'- this itself is the choice! If one will follow those commandments...! We arent third party observers who arent involved- if me, you, him etc. choose to live by what G-d wants, then that is good. If not, then G-d would certainly try and help us back into the right path. But it is the purpose of Creation for us to have this choice- and to ultimately choose good. (And we are taught that G-d actively wants us to choose good and He gives us that power as well...) I would recommend that the author study some of the Chabad Chassidus which explains this concept very well. I'm sure that there are the Chabad in his area as well and they would surely sit and learn some with him. All the best and Good Shabbos
11. Wrong!
Yaakov ,   Jerusalem, Israel   (09.03.05)
Jerusalem is mentioned more than once. Firsty, Abraham visited Malcktzedek, the Kink of Shalem (The old name of Jerusalem). Then the Torah mentions the name of Har Moriah which is the place where the temple was built. I wonder, how come a secular agnostic like myself knows that and a "religiuos" person like Burg does not? But then, when you want to give it back, you will find the strangest arguments...
12. no Jews in the Torah!
Natan ,   Jerusalem, Israel   (09.03.05)
Adam was just a man. Avraham was a "Hebrew." in the desert we were "Israelites." And we didn't become "Jews" until much later. There are no Jews in the Torah! What does this prove? Nothing. By the way, isn't Jebus mentioned in Breishit?
13. Yet another proof that you this land is ours
Salameh ,   Gaza   (09.03.05)
Al-Quds Al-Sharif with each corner, each stone, and each khan speaks of its Arabism and Islamism, and after 38 years of digging, zionists couldn;t come up with a SINGLE artifact to prove the existance of their so-called temple, and now a fellow zionist proves that even he Torah doesn't mention anything about it, so it is about time they realize they are strangers in a foreign land, and give it up before it is too late. End the occupation NOW.
14. What he forgets is...
Shai ,   Israel   (09.03.05)
...That the entire land is given to the Jews. Aside from all the commentary, if he wants to use the Pentateuch (the 5 books, not the Prophets, etc.) as his source, then the Land, including the area of Jerusalem, is given to the Jews and if the Jews and G-d choose Jerusalem, it's still of no consequence for others to claim it.
15. To 13: salameh
(09.04.05)
the torah (the Law) is the first part of the bible - the other two parts are the neviim (Prophets) and the ketuvim (Writings). Those two mention Jerusalem hundreds of times. But religion doesn't do much to persuade someone who believes in another one. But there are thousands of artifacts that were uncovered (try to remember that your government told you whatever makes you most willing to fight for them), the most obvious being the south-western chunk of a huge wall that surrounded the original holy temple. Perhaps you've heard of it, maybe seen a picture.
16. Jerusalem was not specifically chosen in Torah
Donna ,   USA   (09.04.05)
I must say that I was shocked to discover this fact. I assumed it. I was taught it but I see that it simply is not spelled out in Torah as so. I am awestruck that most of what I have learned is incorrect. I am starting from scratch. PS: Are the Laws/Insructions posted on the Mountain as instructed in Torah still today--I doubt it. Blessings to all who indeed study the Torah!
17. Salameh
Eyal ,   tlv.il   (09.04.05)
too much chashish dude! It isn't mentioned in the Koran either. And as Judaism as a religion preceeded yours by 2000 years I think its time you joined a rehab program. Too many flying horses...
18. Yaakov
Eyal ,   tlv.il   (09.04.05)
God chose not to tell us His chosen place; that's what it says. God told us to go elsewhere when we entered the promised land. We disobeyed.
19. Donna
sean ,   s africa   (09.04.05)
do a search for "Whole Torah". Your eyes will be opened like never before.
20. Moriah; et al
Sean ,   SA   (09.04.05)
In Genesis 22:2 Abraham is told to go to the LAND of Moriah. Not the Mount. He is told to go to a mountain... no one knows where that is. In Genesis 14:18 there is mention of a Malchi-Zedek [Righteous King]; who ruled Salem. Once again, there is no mention of where that is... Later on [not in the Torah] after setting up the Ark at Shiloh near Shechem (Nablus), Joshua launches a foray into Salem, land of the Jebusites. (Joshua 10:23, 15:63)
21. Number 13 from Gaza - Mwah!
Russel ,   Tel Aviv   (09.04.05)
I am glad the learned Torah scholar, Salameh of Gaza, acknowledges the authenticity of the Torah; which contains the Word of Hashem Who declared that this land; the Promised Land, is ours. Not Salameh's or his people's. Thanks buddy. *Hug! Hug Mwah!* And don't forget to turn the lights out when you return to Syria or where ever it is you came from. If only we can convince the Israeli government of same ;-)
22. To #15, 17 ans 21
Salameh ,   Gaza   (09.04.05)
As for #15, yada yada yada, whatever, if you had ANY artifacts you would have shown them anywhere, your contineous digging around al-Haram al-Qudsi are almost non-stop, and as for al-Buraq wall, that is also another myth that your fellow zionists came up with, but if it makes you feel better, go ahead wail and cry around it, I don;t mind, but before you worship Hashem, remember the entire area including the plaza belongs to the mughrabi suburn residents whom you have kicked out and RAZED the entire area to worship? I wonder how c ould it be kosher to worship on stolen land? As for #17, you don't deserve an answer really, an addict like you lives for no purpose but sucking up oxygen As for #21, we believe in the Torah as a book of God as much as the Bible and The Quran as books of God, do you believe in mine?? And as for God "decaling" this land is yours, last time I checked Hasehm was not a real estate agent to make you own this part and not the phyilistines? Now the most funny part of your comment is, an Evgeny or chomonsky or a Flashumura like you asking me, the native of this land to go back to "where I come from" well guess it, this is my land that we along with our father and grand grand fathers have been living in since the dawn of time and it is you who come from poland, russia, brooklyn, ethiopia who should pack up and leave before it is too late !!!
23. salami from gaza
Ronit ,   Israel   (09.05.05)
hey i read a couple of your posts and i can compare blindly to posts folks write on other websites which are word for word exactly same as yours. do you have a pamphlet handed to you by your propaganda machine where you copy and paste same idiosincracies all over the place? I mean word for word like a parrot its very amuzing and not to be taken seriously
24. To Salameh, Gaza
Micha ,   Jerusalem, Israel   (09.05.05)
You and your people haven't lived here for more that two or three generations. You are a liar. Read the book by Joan Peters entitled "From Time Immemorial." The Jewish people are the Aboriginal people of this Land. I am happy to share it with you as long as you and your type cut out the lies, the violence, and the B''S.
25. To 22
Shai ,   Israel   (09.05.05)
1. Long before Arabs could even dream of making the Land of Israel theirs, there were two Jewish states here, Israel and Judea. When the Temple was destroyed, our written accounts say that anything of value that could be carried away was plundered, and everything else ( which was very modest compared to the Second Temple or other major buildings of the time) was razed to the ground and ground up to humiliate the Jews and make rebuilding difficult. It's not surprising then that little, especially from the first Temple period, remains. There is quite a bit from the Second Temple period, which began 70 years after the First Temple Period ended (around the same time as Confucious, and he never heard of Mohammed, who was to be born a millenium later), and these artifacts are in fact displayed all over and can be seen af the Temple Mount itself and near it. The likelihood is that if the Israeli archeologists were permitted to dig systematically on the Temple Mount itself they'd find a good deal of evidence, but the fact is that the Waqf refuses to allow this, destroys evidence when it finds it, refused to allow archeological supervision when the new mosque was built in the fill material under the Temple Plaza, and complains that any dig even quite a distance from any building (except when they are doing it themselves with no archeological supervision) endangers the foundations of the Dome of the Rock or the Mosque. Therefore, you claim that we haven't found anything is firstly wrong, and secondly missing the context of why we haven't found more. 2. The al-Buraq myth, that the wall is significant only because Mohammed's horse left a hoof mark on one of the stones is not credible to those not committed to an irrational faith in Islamic stories. By secular standards, it's a complete fairy tale. What isn't a myth, and professional archeologists don't dispute this, is that the wall was a fortification used to level the Temple Mount plaza during the Second Temple period. Houses built in that area by the so called Mughrabi are simply an accident, squatters of recent history who are of no more significance in terms of property rights than if they had build their houses on the walls of the Jefferson Memorial or Louvre. The rest of your comments are simply ignorant blather. No more than G-d is a real estate agent, he is as well not a book publisher. What, He needs sequels to keep the Public interested? He's bored or needs to change His mind every couple thousand years, thus requiring a Mohammed and a Quran when a Moshe and a Torah sufficed before? Do and think what you want "if that makes you feel better, go ahead wail and cry about it, I don't mind". Regarding your last comments, what's laughable is that you call yourself a "native". Jews lived in Iraq for thousands of years and were summarily tossed out as any strangers would, because no matter how long Jews live outside of Israel they are considered native only to Israel. Palestinian Arabs live here for a few generations (dawn of time - hah! - more like a quarter to midnight) and you become indigenous? That's a joke, Salameh. We Jews are returning to where we belong. If it's convenient because you live with us in peace, you'll stay. If not, prepare to be defeated.
26. The Gazan Salami
Russel ,   Israel   (09.05.05)
There is irrefutable archeological and historical proof from the Roman Empire to the Torah to show the Jews were here before. You may even be Jewish if your family lived here from "the Dawn of Time". Studies have shown the gene compatibility between some Jews and some palestinians. Maybe you had an ancestor named Shalom; or Salem? Originally, the Dome of the Rock was built to serve as a place of competition to the Kaaba. Built by Abd al-Malik, of the Umayyad Caliph. At this same time, Ibn al-Zubayr, a supporter of Ali, established himself as a rival caliph in Mecca. (John D. Hoag, Islamic Architecture (Milan: Electa Editrice, 1975) 12.) Thus, in order to compete with this caliph, Abd al-Malik built the Dome of the Rock to draw pilgrims away from the Kaaba. This in return, would create a new focus, or place of the Hajj in the Islamic religion. Abd al-Malik, fifth of the fourteen Umayyad Caliphs, did many things for the Islamic religion. (Wilfred Blunt, Splendors of Islam (New York: Arco, 1977) 18.) Eventually, Abd al-Malik's plan succeeded. He defeated Ibn al-Zubayr in 693. (Hoag 12.) Consequently, the Dome of the Rock became a major point of focus, but did not replace the Kaaba as the center of pilgrimage. However, it served its purpose and aided Abd al-Malik in his political plan to overthrow Ibn al-Zubayr. As said by John D. Hoag, "The design, with an inner and outer ambulatory, suggests that it could have been intended as a rival to Mecca's Kaaba, where ambulation is also a major part of the ritual." (Hoag 12.) An ambulatory can be defined, as in the Webster's dictionary, as a sheltered place to walk in, similar to the two arched and columned ambulatories of the Dome of the Rock, where people can use them as passageways. ("ambulatory," Webster's Seventh New Collegiate Dictionary, 1971 ed.) The Dome of the Rock is composed of two ambulatories. The outer one, consists of eight pillars and between the pillars are two columns, forming three arches. (Karleen S. Davis, "Dome of the Rock," Use of Geometry in Islamic Architecture and Ornament A.D. 650-1650: par.5, online, Internet, 20 November 1997.) The design, as noted by many sources is very geometrical in shape. Similarly, the Kaaba is also composed of ambulatories. This is another indication that the Dome of the Rock was built to compete with the Kaaba. As quoted from John D. Hoag, "Circumambulation is common in Islam as a gesture of respect ever since the practice began at the Kaaba." (Hoag 153.) Above the arches, is the first monumental inscription in Islamic architecture. It reads about 787 feet long, and is a Koranic quotation directed to the "people of the book." (Hoag 14.) This quote from the walls of the Dome of the Rock acknowledges the importance to the three religions of the Middle East. As Roger Garaudy, has said, "The Dome of the Rock presents the first example of the Islamic-world view and is the symbol of the oneness and continuity of the Abrahamic, i.e. Jewish, Christian and Muslim faith." This quote shows how the Dome of the Rock represents the unity of the different segments, or in this case, religions of the Middle East. A glance at Josephus, and various Roman historical documents will give you insight to the seige was laid upon Jerusalem; leading to its eventual destruction in AD70. Regarding the "mughrabi suburn residents " you may care to note that as judaism as a religion is older than Islam [you cant deny THAT, surely] and its central place of worship was Jerusalem, your claim therefore is preposterous. Once again, if you believe in the Torah, you believe it was written by God; and if God said, the land is yours, go for it; than that's the way it was. Therefore; the entire Torah is Gods Estate Agent License. Altho, to be fair He does claim ownership of all land and mentions that if He doesn't like us humans we will be evicted. If you believe in the Torah, you believe that too.
27. Facts and Myths
Salameh ,   Gaza   (09.05.05)
#23, well my name is Salameh, not Salami, but if that makes you hyper, be it, call me Eshkol, I don’t give a rabbit tail. As for postings on other sites, were you actually talking to me or you fellow Zionists Linda, NYC girl and Daisy? A heart-blind person like you can’t tell his left from his right!! # 24, woww what an educated intelligent person. So your naïve brain suggests to you that a book, A BOOK written by whoever is going to change historical facts?? What kind of BS is “the book by Joan Peters entitled "From Time Immemorial." Mean? I and my forefathers since the dawn of Time lived here, and you and your kahanist friends know it and you just can’t swallow it, since a Polisky or Russky or Chesky like you know he is in the wrong place, don’t you? “Judges 13:1-5 Now the sons of Israel again did evil in the sight of the Lord, so that the Lord gave them into the hands of the Philistines forty years.” As for #25 and 26 your post looked too long and boring (and might be cut and pasted from elsewhere) so I didn’t read it as I have a life to take care of, apparently you don’t
28. burg
DANIEL RIMOKH ,   los angeles   (09.06.05)
please get lost....go to norvegia....where you belong.....shame on you....daniel....rimokh...
29. back to 22
(09.07.05)
"if you had ANY artifacts you would have shown them anywhere, your contineous digging around al-Haram al-Qudsi are almost non-stop," Actually, the temple plaza is held under the control of the Islamic Waqf as part of the peace with Jordan. The Waqf spent $100 million digging out the area underneath al-Aqsa and dumped thousand year old Jewish artifacts in the Valley outside the city. "as for al-Buraq wall, that is also another myth that your fellow zionists came up with": Please direct me to a single Koranic passage that uses the name Jerusalem and I will apologize. More important than any of this, is your constant refusal to accept that a staple of 1500 year-old Jewish prayer services, 3 times daily, is the return to Jerusalem, long before Herzl or anyone calling themselves a Palestinian ever existed. Ultimately, you are the very definition of extremist and fundamentalist, and if Allah is truly the almighty God, he will value peace and kindness much more than stubborn extremist political warfare. I'm reminded of a joke: Abbas and Sharon are finally ready to go to the negotiating table. Before they begin, Sharon offers to tell a little story. He explains of a time when Moshe was leading the Jews through the desert on their way to the Promised Land. They complained of the desert heat, when they came across an oasis - what a surprise! They took their clothes off and went for a swim. When they finished, they went to redress when they discovered all their clothes were missing! They asked Moshe what happened, and he responded, "The Palestinians took your clothes." Abbas interrupts Sharon instantly. "Ariel, this is a Zionist lie! There were no Palestinians when the Jews left Egypt!" Sharon smiles and replies, ever so casually, "Okay then. Let's begin negotiating."
30. Burg you silly sod, look what youve done
(09.08.05)
youve upset the masses old boy! well done for saying something refreshingly new (even if it is utter garbage)
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