o my G-d!

Once again, that Haredim know what time it is when it comes to issues of Jewish identity.

If this "rabi" put his case in a bit more intelligent way, I would denounce his creating a straw man. But what he says is so far from what Beilin (whose fan I'm not, by the way) that this puny attempt at a riposte is simply stupid. Beilin was talking about cases of people who are not halakhically Jewish (i.e. their mother is not Jewish by birth or through giur), but who are Jewish through their paternal line and who are better versed in Yahadut and/or have a stronger sense of Jewish identity than regrettably very, very many halakhic Jews. It's even paradoxical that such people are treated as goyim while halakhic Jews who are in all aspects (national, religious and other) about as Jewish as the emperor of Japan are considered part of b'ney Yisrael. It's ludicrous. Please everyone, before responding here, read Beilin's article. He makes a very good point and is right on the mark. http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3162001,00.html These rabis who're interested in not much else other than retaining their conversion / family law racket make me sick. And so does their flagrant intellectual dishonesty.

What next, his kasha on Maria's cleavage?

Israel Eichler where have you been hiding? When will the people of your intellect and understanding of the world events come out of the shadow and start balancing out the evil in the form of the Yossi Beilin types. Please, we need you more than ever. Israel and the Jews need you. If you hide and don't talk we, the Jews with little or no Jewish education, only hear them and not you. I had the goose bumps while reading your piece. Please don't hide again. Thank you.

and send him to Ramallah...nah, he will not survive in Ramallah. He would prefer Amsterdam or San Francisco.

finally someone who actually reads the articles before posting their ignorant comments. how insulting to children of jewish fathers like myself who would have been killed by the nazis to be so rejected by judism and supposed leaders of the community like "rabi eichler". israel is in trouble because of ignorant people like eichler and his followers.

"send [Beilin] to Ramallah...nah, [h]e would prefer Amsterdam or San Francisco" Just like you, "R" from USA!! Good one, buddy!

OK if you anylize what beilin wrote and what he implies you will see that rabbi eichler is addressing just that! While eichler does not provide the answer to this dilema (kahane wrote exactly this problem and the solution in his book "uncompfterble questions for compfterble jews" Belin deny's thast this country is a jewish state by saying "howdy ho lets let all those who want to convert / make aliyah do so" Both the identyity and the majority of jews in this country is lost!

are u for real g-d forbid when the day comes that the so called"jewish state of israel" acceptes non jews as jews everything that we are up too this day is because we observe the so called yiddishkeit that is the only thing that saved the "halahic" jews too preserve the yiddishkeit tachles it meane an biiiiiiig no to intermariage no mother jewish no children jewish!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! we can only preserve jewish by observing the law of : jewish mother=jewish children

don't bemoan the secularization, assimilation, and dwindling numbers of the jewry while at the same time excluding those who are indeed 50% jewish by birth but they have the 'wrong' 50% (from their father). if they want to strengthen their ranks, they need to get real and stop the unrealistic and artificial demands which burden their cause.

In my opinion, Mr Eichler is completely right. He's thinking in the way of Kal Vahomer, and the final state could be like he says if we continue assimilating. I know that men who married with non-jews cannot understand their children are not jews. Even if they carry a name like "Levy" or whatever, the jewry comes from the mother. If she's not jewish... But this is a matter of Halacha, and you knew it BEFORE getting married. Mr Beilin and others always complain because they claim religious don't have to interfere in political decisions. The best way of showing they are coherent is (from their side) to avoid speaking about religion. I think they have no legitimity for that purpose. Without insulting anyone, I know some dramatic situations, some people who feel excluded, but I wouldn't base my opinion on Hitler's way of thinking. We are jewish BECAUSE we believe in what is written in our holy Torah, and NOT because there are antisemitic people around the world... We can respect each other, but it has to be based on truth; I don't like Beilin's speech because he did it only for political purposes, taking advantage of a TV-show which had a good audience. At the opposit, Mr Eichler reacted only as a Jew who felt he was attacked deeply in his own identity. I've never heard about him before, which means he doesn't like "sunlights" and doesn't show himself. That also means he is Aanav, which qualifies him as a Tsadik.

The rabbi should see the so called christians he is criticizing. Some of the most dedicated jews i know in america are children of a jewish father, and christian mother. These people certainly deserve to make aliyah over children with jewish parents who know nothing of judaism.

News for you, dear: your father may be Jewish and the nazis might as well have killed you (chas v'sholom, were you to live in the reichland in those years). But you,... and I mean this with utmost respect, remain nothing but a sheigetz (you may want to aks dad what this means). Halacha aside - your complete lack of basic understanding of the meaning of the word "Jew" is the core reason why you should stay the hell away from the My People. You need to define your identify by how the nazis would have classified you?! Are you kidding me? Or the fact that the Nazis would have killed you given the opportunity somehow gives you the automatic right to proclaim yourself a Jew? Your complete disrespect for a rabbi, a baal Torah, is a clear indication that you don't even qualify to be called eirev rav.. Now, were you *truly* one of the many Jewish neshamos who are trying to find their way back into Am Yisroel, then the "pain" and "discomfort" of giyur would mean absolutely nothing to you and you would accept Torah and Mitzvos fullheartedly and sincerely - as hundreds of others did. You would not turn to Yossele Beilin for support -- you would run for the nearest kosher Beis Din. That is, were being Jewish (in the true sense of the word) really important to you... Here's the kicker: the biggest (and probably the only) real obstacle preventing these "children of Jewish fathers" from becoming Jewish is NOT the abnoxious Rabbis or the "oppressive" Halacha - it's their own massive egos and ignorance.

I really do not know what the fuss is all about- I read both Beilin's and Eichler's articles. Everything is just fine. The State of Israel can always change its legal definition of who is a Jew. Halacha will never change, specially not in this issue. Those that stick to the Halacha are not even sweating. Sorry.

Rabbi you are truly a hateful person. I feel sorry for you! You have no tolerance for anyone who is not like you. You see only the black in others and apply broad brush. You think you have the sole right to define what a person is. Sorry only you think so!

The problem is the smart people like him don't carrry the message to the uneducated Jews. They have abdicated their responsibility to the anti-Jewish self-promoting Jews like Beilin. In the era of the Internet and electronic communication they must reach out to the Jews who need their assistance and direction in life. Unfortunately, they are not doing it. Complaining about it will not help the ignorant Jews who live in the non-Jewish areas. ...and by the way, #11 there are no 25%, 50% or even 75% Jews. Part-Jews, fractional Jews do not exist. Just as a woman cannot be 50% pregnant a Jew cannot be 50% Jewish. One can only be Jewish or not Jewish.

First of all there is a minority basis in Talmud for recognising children of Jewish Fathers as Jews. There is also a clear Torah basis for recognizing those who profess or practice Judaism as indeed, Jews. But what strikes me the most is this Rabbi's deep ignorance of the complex psyches and beliefs existant in Israel, and his disdain for his fellow Jews . His view is so deeply negative and flawed and self-righteous that it beggars belief.

rabbi if you dont want or dont care if the rest of whats left of jews that are living overseas assimilate.then you better do something fast. from personal experience i can say that me and most of my friends are in mixed marriages,and you can bet your holy beard,that all the children from these marriages will be lost to judaism.

Given the fact that 50 % of Jews in the US, the country with the highest number of Jews outside of Israel, marry non Jews (and for men the percentage is probably higher) and given that over 50% of Jews in US, when polled stated that they not only don't practice Judaism but do not even believe in God, the Rabbi's demand that the non-Jewish spouses of Jews not only convert to Judaism, but do it according to the Orthodox creed, is plainly unrealistic. I doubt it very much that for secular Israeli Jews it matters very much, if their prospective spouse had Jewish or non-Jewish mother. So what is he left with -- alienated children of Jewish fathers whom he and people like him have been pushing into churches, instead of welcoming them into synagogues, an encouraging them to be Jews. Since among the million or so Russian immigrants a large proportion are from mixed marriages, by excluding the children and then their children, as Jewish, he will succeed in the end in truly making Israel a non-Jewish country and consigning the religious Jews to a very small, very inbred, very nationally insignificant ghetto.

Normally I don't agree with Yossi Beilin about anything. However, here he is right. He is not talking about recognizing everybody has Jewish. If somebody has a jewish father, makes aliya, serves in the IDF, and basically swears allegiance to our people, and practices are they not Jewish. And is somebody like Noam Chomsky, and Norman Finklestein Jewish, even though they are sworn enemies of our people and Israel. It appears that this Rabbi thinks exactly that.

Let me get this straight. We allow people to call themselves Jews based on birthright but not on any study, knowledge, practice, belief whatsoever but .... BUT we deny those Jews born to Jewish fathers whoe study, know, practice, and believe not into the community. Am I missing something ????

your choice of language, which i full well understand, proves my point exactly so thank you for your comment. ignorant jews like yourself will destroy israel before iran, or hamas or anyone else. open your eyes!

so you are saying that one born to a jewish father and gentile mother and practices judaism is 0% jewish? yet one who is born to a jewish mother and gentile father and doesn't believe there god exists is 100% jewish? and one born to jewish mother and father yet practices another religion is what? i was speaking in terms of bloodline, you know, like my kids are half arab because my wife is arab and i'm not. sometimes you can't reduce everything to absolutes like the rabbis are trying to do and still expect everyone to see it their way. it's not that simple or clear, otherwise there would be no controversy. according to halacha it is simple and clear, yet halacha is subject to sometimes arbitrary criteria, such as in this case. if there was a time when jewishness was determined according to patrilineal descent, then it is possible to argue that halacha is arbitrary in this respect. halacha won't change because the rabbis won't let it. to their dismay assimilation is on the rise. and how do they respond to this issue of patrilineal descent? in typical predictable fashion. there is no real reason israeli law should not be changed. maybe it should. maybe if the law changes and patrilineal descent is then accepted among world jewry, halacha will eventually change despite the rabbis best efforts. who knows?

All these 50%, 25%, 33% partial-birth semi-Jews who are whining and squealing that the eeville Orthodox don't recognize them as Jews. Meanwhile they despise Judaism and hate those who observe it. Whoever wants to be accepted as 100% Jew...should accept 100% Judaism.

but the enemies of Judaism can't stand it. They devise their own interpretations to destroy the Jewish people.

And very true, and I don't know how the normal people here do not make this difference between nationality and religion, and they can't even understand it. Israel is only jewish when it comes to claiming the land and importing newcomers, but in every other aspect it has nothing to do with Judaism or the will of god. God as far as I know from the Torah (and trust me I know much more than an average secular jew) says that the Jewish state will be erected by the Meshiah who is still to come, and I know that most of the Haridim outside the Zionist entity are fighting the mere existence of this secular state which claims to be jewish, because according to the traditional jewish understanding it would be herecy and a taboo to create the state without the proper justification, which is the arrival of the Meshiah. Way to go Rabbi, well said.

Israel can pass legislation to make it's citizenship laws as it sees fit, but you have to question a system that on one hand prohibits famility reunion for Palestinians and on the other shows total disregard to religious identity as it has been defined these last centuries. And of course, Beilen isn't talking about citizenship per se, since children of one Jewish parent can already come here and live as citizens, although not as Jews (because they are not Jewish). Being Jewish has meant something and should continue to mean something. It isn't membership in a stamp collecting club, it is a moral and RELIGIOUS identity. Something not subject to the whims of politicians pandering for votes.

I really cannot believe some of the comments here. What is this preoccupation with halakha?? Does halakha supersede haTorah? HaTorah nowhere even implies that a person is Jewish solely by the virtue of their matrilineal Jewishness. If anything, it states completely the opposite. This maternal descent notions was invented centuries after our Torah had been completed by rabis for political reasons. Plus, halakha is not written in stone; it's not a static set of rules, as its very name (H-L-KH) attests. But be that as it may. To call a person (disrespectfully or not) a shaygitz because of a technicality is really narrowminded and obtuse. It's even worse condemning a person and treating them like a goy because their mother (for reasons completely unknown to you) decided to marry outside Klal Yisrael. In Yahadut, we are all responsible individually and collectively for ourselves; we cannot be punished (not by other humans anyway) for the deeds of our ancestors. A child cannot choose their parents. The most important point though is the arrant unfairness of this kind of attitude toward non-halakhic Jews. A lot of them are more Jewish in word and deed than those whose mother is "kosher." They love HaShem and they love b'ney Yisrael. Unlike the hordes of Russian "Jews" who swamped haAretz a decade ago and are now engaged in all types of crime (of course, only a minority) and/or are not interested in Yahadut at all (most of them), many non-halakhic Jews do us all proud by their morals, commitment, behavior and character. Accepting non-halakhic Jews will not destroy haAretz; the type of hatred and crass ignorance exhibited here by some commentators will. And half of Israelis are khilonim anyway. And finally, no rabi is worthy of respect solely by virtue of being a rabi. We're not Xians who venerate or revere priests. A rabi can be as big an a**hole as any Jew (halakhic or non-) or goy. And this specimen above is the perfect example.