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Saudi court: 750 lashes for praising Jews
Reuters
Published: 15.11.05, 21:32
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31. #14
Ram ,   London   (11.16.05)
Typically, you react like most of your Muslim brothers do, even to the point of not recognising the blatant injustice represented in my note #13. Can't you see the simple point of the same sin receiving different judgement depending on the perpetrators? Lets talk about occupation. Why do you ignore history by not facing how this resulted. I'll refresh your mind: Egypt (Gaza), Syria, and Jordan (West Bank) attacked Israel and lost. Egypt made peace did NOT want Gaza back and Jordan made peace and did NOT want the West Bank back. Your Arab brothers let you down. Arafat did not want peace when offered it and that is why the "occupation" is ongoing. As for the biased resolutions by the UN they would have been inforced if they were inforsable. And if Israel has a nuclear arsenal (which it has never used) you bet it needs it with all the hostile Arab nations around it. My advice to you and your people is to take the rational path of "sincere" peace and concessions through negotiations. Accept that Israel has been there before Islam was created and that it will be there for good. Concentrate on improving you lot through education and industry instead of hate and destruction. Salaam.
32. Answer to miss Muslima 24
hiram ,   tel aviv   (11.16.05)
Young lady, Obviously you have never set foot in Saudi Arabia....For having worked there as a consultant in my branch ( Jeddah, Taif, Dahran, Ryad) and having witnessed personally the intolerance of the religious police, I am not surprised, nor do I think that this is exagerated. There are good chances that the man accused of these "crimes" would die under flogging should th sentence be conducted as it is. This in the name of the loving religion of Islam, which does not accept in Saudi Arabia any difference of Ideology, religion, or political opinion. Long live Islam in that part of the world. I see no difference between Islam in Saudi Arabia and the way the nazis conducted the control of their people from 1933 to 1945. Saudi Arabia is a shame for Islam and, like any other Islamic dictatorship, should be singled out by UNO for their contempt of the right of opinion. YOU don't have any brain. Go there ( if they grant you a pilgrim visa that is..) and check for yourself.
33. Saudi Arabian religious intolerance
Micha ,   Jerusalem, Israel   (11.16.05)
In most places of the Muslim world this would never happen. However in Saudi Arabia the most extreme form of Islam is practiced. I am reminded of when George W. Bush visited the American troops stationed in Saudi Arabia last year in order to celebrate the Thanksgiving dinner with them. He was told by the Saudi authorities that he was forbidden to say the Christian Grace before meals. He was told that it is forbidden to recite a non-Muslim prayer on Saudi soil. He decided to hold the dinner on a ship. Once again he was forbidden to recite the prayer unless the ship moves out of Saudi waters. Bush complied with their law. Please note that we are talking about the President of The United States not a mere school teacher!
34. #32(Hirm) How do you know i'm not ethnically Saudi?
Miss Muslima ,   London England UK   (11.16.05)
35. Islam and its holy sites
Franck ,   Paris   (11.16.05)
Moslems had the good idea to declare holy every pieces of land where they settled. Don't we hear this all the time. Although they are the first ones to claim the freedom to choose and practice their religion in the western world and in Israel, they refuse other faith in their countries. Journalists forgot maybe to quote the situation of the copte in Egypt or other minorities in the moslem world. As soon as they declare something or a place holy, noone is even allowed to discuss it. We can all agree that saudi arabia is an uncivilised country that should be excluded from all international bodies. It takes a lot of courage to declare and fight for such an idea but I think they simply don't deserve to speak freely when in their own land they refuse this freedom.
36. Answer to answer to Miss Muslema
Hiram ,   Tel Aviv   (11.16.05)
There is no such thing as ethnically saudi. "Saud" is a family, not an ethnia. If you are indeed from Saudi origin,descent,accointance, marriage, etc....you know even more that I am right. I worked very closely with Saudis and have also seen the insides of the country on many occasion. Having a religious police is a clear sign of a full fledge dictatorship...The saudi regime is furthermore strongly criticized by arabs worldwide for its corruption and the way Saudis of non royal descent ( there are a few ) are treated. 750 lashes will probably kill a man passing 250...Good show for the saudi regime who demonstrates once again that in spite of the wealth, the country is still living in the middle age....just like many other Islamic dictatorships...Good show for Islam as a religion of peace, tolerance, and human dignity... In fact, the saudis have never been known for their respect of liberty and freedom....but for their intolerance and quest of power and money. What they preach is not what they follow. Any inhabitant of the Antibes and Cannes area in France know how their behavior is in-line with Islam !!!!
37. Arab News- Read the true story here
Miss Muslima ,   london, England UK   (11.16.05)
All of you who commented on my post, i repeat that the reason for this man's sentencing wasn't because he praised Jews. It was a combination of afactors, the main one being that he cheesed off a number of students . This is a pathetic attempt of spin and lies. Reuters did not report it like this. Anyhow, i'd post some Saudi news links for you, but they're in Arabic, here is a Saudi/English daily which gives the true story. Teacher Charged With Mocking Religion Sentenced to Jail Ebtihal Mubarak, Arab News http://www.arabnews.com/?page=1§ion=0&article=73171&d=14&m=11&y=2005 JEDDAH, 14 November 2005 — The controversial case of Muhammad Al-Harbi, a Saudi high school teacher accused of mocking religion, came to a surprising end on Saturday. Al-Harbi was sentenced to three years in prison and 750 lashes — 50 lashes per week for 15 weeks. The lashes are to be given in the public market in the town of Al-Bikeriya in Al-Qassim. A number of 12th Grade students, along with some teachers from the same school, filed a lawsuit a year-and-a-half ago against Al-Harbi. He was accused of mocking Islam, favoring Jews and Christians, preventing students from performing ablutions. He was also charged with studying witchcraft. At the time, he was a chemistry teacher at Al-Fowailiq High School in the town of Ein Al-Juwa in Al-Qassim. “This is a very cruel sentence,” Al-Harbi told Arab News. He explained over the phone that the students who filed the lawsuit had failed the monthly chemistry test. “They asked me to give them the exam again and when I refused, they went to the principal to complain but he upheld my decision,” he explained. According to Al-Harbi, the students’ actions were triggered by some Islamic studies teachers who used the students’ anger at Al-Harbi and convinced them to file the lawsuit. The reason for the Islamic studies teachers action has its roots five years ago when Al-Harbi joined the staff of Al-Fowailiq High School after graduating from King Saud University in Riyadh. Based on his academic record and extracurricular activities, the school principal appointed Al-Harbi as school activities organizer. Deeply disturbed by the explosions at the Al-Hamra Compound in Riyadh in 2003, Al-Harbi felt it his duty as an educator to enlighten his students and warn them of terrorism and its consequences. He went to great lengths by talking to students, hanging anti-terrorism signs around the school and speaking against terrorism. “The Ministry of Education has recently ordered all schools to lecture students on the dangers of extremism and terrorism in general, but I was a step ahead of their decision,” said Al-Harbi. continued here......http://www.arabnews.com/?page=1§ion=0&article=73171&d=14&m=11&y=2005
38. What is medieval/Middle Ages?
stafford1069 ,   London, England   (11.16.05)
The Medieval/Middle Ages. When? They were the middle bit of time between the Classical Roman world and the Renaissance. Also the people living in the Renaissance (circa 1000 AD) period thought it as the Dark Ages. That like between two mountain chains lies a valley in the dark. Hence it is more accurate to describe something not good, not as Medieval, but as Dark Age, if one was determined to venture a Middle Ages analogy.
39. How dare you presume to know Saudi's just from living there
Miss Muslima ,   London, England UK   (11.16.05)
Well Hiram, Just because you have lived there, doesn't mean you know anything about it's inner workings. Rest assured you only have one side of the picture, the side that only outsiders have. Don't you ever speak about Saudi ARabia like this again. Mind your own business
40. the nerve of some jews!!!!!!
aaa ,   london...uk   (11.16.05)
why are you all shocked , 2 years ago a home in jerusalem was burned by the jews because the people that lived there preached cristianity , so what is the difference ??????
41. #33(Micha) Why should Saudi change rules for the President?
Miss Muslima ,   London England UK   (11.16.05)
"Once again he was forbidden to recite the prayer unless the ship moves out of Saudi waters. Bush complied with their law. Please note that we are talking about the President of The United States not a mere school teacher! " Islam Rox and The Quran Rules. Why would the rules be any different for the president of the USA? When the Queen gives honours or Knighthood's , Muslim recipients refuse because the ceromony involves bowing down to her. No disrespect to the Queen, but that is blasphemy for a Muslim, as it amounts to idolatory, to bow to anyone or anything other than the One God. The Queen offered Prince Khaled Bin Sultan his Knighthood over tea, which he accepted. I don't know why you think the President of the USA should be treated any different to anyone else in the Kingdom! He is a mere man!
42. #40 Destroyed home not the same as severe assault!
Linda Rivera ,   New York   (11.16.05)
How can you possibly compare a destroyed home, to a violent, inhuman assault upon a human being?
43. #18(Mark) very well said Mark, I agree!!
Miss Muslima ,   London England UK   (11.16.05)
44. #37 "Arab News"...
B. Oker ,   Germany   (11.16.05)
"Al-Harbi was sentenced to three years in prison and 750 lashes — 50 lashes per week for 15 weeks. The lashes are to be given in the public market in the town of Al-Bikeriya in Al-Qassim." This is sick! I will never understand why such a backward and medevial country is considered as moderate[TM]. BO
45. Miss Muslima #37
Howard ,   Pacific Coast, USA   (11.16.05)
Reuters reported it EXACTLY like this, and if you looked at any of the other news sources that ran this Reuters story, then you know it. As for your interpretation of the Arab News story, either you didn't read very carefully, or you are deliberately twisting what happened as well. When you claim that he "cheesed off a number of students", you imply that he did something wrong that upset them. No. They FAILED A MONTHLY CHEMISTRY EXAM. And because he opposes terrorism, a group of extremist Islamist teachers were out to get him -- even if it meant this revolting nonsense. As for what he said to students, I have little doubt that he tried to communicate that Jews and Christians are human beings; it goes together with what he was doing. And in the twisted lies of the teachers and students, this became the ludicrous basis for the accusations against him. I am glad you posted the first part of the text, at least; Arab News has unfortunately already removed the story from their web site. Thank you. To anyone else, see #20 for a summary of the remainder of the article.
46. #41 Miss Muslima - IT IS G-D THAT RULES!
Linda Rivera ,   New York   (11.16.05)
You write "Islam Rox and the Quran Rules" IT IS G-D THAT RULES! In G-D's coming Kingdom on this earth, G-D will be honored! G-D's laws will be honored! The One G-D gave His laws to Moses. Some of the laws. Bible, Exodus 20: "You shall have no other gods before Me" "You shall not make for yourself an idol" "You shall not murder" "You shall not commit adultery" "You shall not steal" "You shall not bear false witness" "You shall not covet" Exodus 21:16 "He who kidnaps a man, whether he sells him or he is found in his possession, shall surely be put to death" Never again will thousands celebrate in the streets and give out candy because Jewish innocents were maimed and murdered. NEVER AGAIN WILL PEOPLE CELEBRATE THE BREAKING OF G-D'S LAW: "YOU SHALL NOT MURDER"
47. Howard compare Ynet's headline to the real story
Miss Muslima ,   London England UK   (11.16.05)
Howard, i'm not twisting anything. Ynet is the culprit here. Look at the headline here. "750 lashes for praising Jews" All i said was that, he wasn't sentenced to750 lashes for praising Jews, the problem was a much more wider one. Whether people agree with the sentence or not, or whether it is humane or not is not the point here. I merely clarified that this headline is spin and lies and so is the story. Oh, and if you want to talk about intolerance, then tell me why the Israeli authorities discriminate against Jews in Israel who convert to Islam. ( A growing number and rising) . They face the same discrimination that the Israeli Arab's do. Problems that face Israeli Jews who convert to Islam Joseph Algazy, Haaretz 12 Dec. 2002 oznik.com/words/021212.html Clear up your own house before pointing fingers at others.
48. #46(LindaRivera) Don't tell Musli'ms about God's law
Miss Muslima ,   London England UK   (11.16.05)
Don't tell Muslim's about God's word. We already know. God spoke to Muslim's last, and thru us his word will rule. We were given that task. The last Prophet was sent as a mercy to all of mankind. Not just to his own tribe. That's the difference between the Greeatest Prophet and those before him. When i say Islam Rox and the Quran Rules, it means God's law rules, the law he gave us via the Greatest Prophet and his last book, The QUran, The Quran, The unadulterated word of God. The last testament, The perfect word. God's coming Kingdom? Yes i know, Jesus will rule from Jerusalem, his rule will shame every King who ever had a Kingdom, he is known as (Isa ruh allah, Jesus spirit of God) and he is the Greatest of the Prophet's , after the Prophet (Mohammed) himself. By the way, God's laws apply to all humanity, not just Jews, therefore your statements "never again .....about Jews" are tossed out of the window. "never again..." applies to all who are killed in the name of terrorism not just jews. Jerusalem is the city of Jesus. You are dismissed!
49. #48 G-D RULES! G-D'S LAWS WERE GIVEN TO ALL HUMANITY!
Linda Rivera ,   New York   (11.16.05)
Muslims in PA areas celebrate by the THOUSANDS when Jewish innocents are maimed and murdered. The breaking of G-D's law: "YOU SHALL NOT MURDER" is celebrated. G-D HAS NOT CHANGED HIS LAWS He gave to Moses for ALL humanity. Bible, Exodus 20: "You shall have no other gods before Me" "You shall not make for yourself an idol" "You shall not murder" "You shall not commit adultery" "You shall not steal" "You shall not bear false witness" "You shall not covet" Exodus 21:16 "He who kidnaps a man, whether he sells him or he is found in his possession, shall surely be put to death" The Muslim Jesus-Isa, is radically different from the Bible Jesus. Jesus was an observant Jew who practiced Judaism. Jesus taught from the Hebrew Jewish Bible in the synagogues and in the Temple on the Temple Mount. Jesus said repeatedly to OBEY GOD'S LAWS! Jesus said, Luke 7:12 "Treat people the same way you want them to treat you, for this is the law and the prophets." In the Bible, Matthew 22, Jesus was asked, "Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?" Jesus answered from the Jewish Bible, Deuteronomy 6:4: "Hear, O Israel! The L-RD is our G-D, the L-RD is One! You shall love the L-RD your G-D with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your might" This scripture is the very essence of Judaism. It is love for, and total allegience to G-D, and obeying G-D's laws. It is what Jews and Christians believe.
50. My #49 comment. Scripture reference should be Matthew 7:12..
Linda Rivera ,   New York   (11.16.05)
Please excuse my error! It is not Luke 7:12, it is Matthew 7:12: "In everything, therefore, treat people the same way you want them to treat you, for this is the law and the prophets"
51. Why do you bother to reply to Miss Muslima???
Yonatan ,   Knoxville, TN USA   (11.16.05)
This person is very clearly in denial. I wouldn't reply to anything she writes, it's just silly.
52. The Other Side of The Story
ASH ,   Saudi Arabia   (11.16.05)
All Muslims including Suadies respect Judaism,. it is part of the faith. This teacher was sentenced for mocking Islam and he will be sentenced with the same if mocking Judaism. The fact is that he was severely offended the local religious institutions for its interpretation and this is something we can argue about its legitimacy. So it has nothing to do with Jews rather with media coverage. Kindly look for another source to know more about this story, AFP or DBA for instant.
53. #49(LindaRivera) Are you Christian or Jewish?
Miss Muslima ,   London England UK   (11.16.05)
"This scripture is the very essence of Judaism. It is love for, and total allegience to G-D, and obeying G-D's laws. It is what Jews and Christians believe. " The Muslim version of Jesus is the true Jesus. Explain what you mean by "radically different" Are you Christian? If so, explain why if you claim to love Jesus you reject his religion, why your men are not circumsised, why you eat pork and don't eat halal (kosher). Jesus followed the teachings of the Prophet Moses, why do you not? Why do you not keep sabbath? If you are Jewish, then how can you preach to me the words of Jesus and then reject him as the Messiah? It doesn't make sense. Don't be opportunistic. Either you love Jesus and accept him as the Messiah, in that case you can quote him, or either you reject him as the Messiah, and you have no right to quote him. You can't have it both ways. Like i said before, don't tell a Muslim about the One God and God's laws. We already have them. In their most perfect and true sense. Again, you're dismissed
55. Miss Muslima, Ruth _S
geni ,   Canada   (11.16.05)
Hey Ruth_S, decided to change addresses to speak out about the cult of death of slamic creatures?
56. Is this what is really happeninig in Saudi arabia
waleed ,   Saudi arabia- Riyadh   (11.17.05)
I live in live in Riyadh and have born there I don't believe that praising Jewish is a crime here ( of course we don't have the absolute freedom to speak about our religion or political views ) I never hate people because of there religions or believes . sometimes I praise Jewish and other religions ( am I going to be punished for that !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) I don't believe so
57.  Micha
Ahmad ,   UK   (11.18.05)
Just wanna ask you How much did u get when you where workin in Saudi Man you couldn't afford to buy a PC if you didn't work in my country another Q are you willing to work again in Saudi? if there were no freedom I'm wondring why would you go and work there? :) Miss Muslima you're the best sis before I leave just wanna say that I've been in England for more than 4 years as a student and everyday I hope to go home I'm missing somthing Important here ( my freedom) Home sweet home!
58. YNet Editor's , Thank you :))
Miss Muslima ,   London, England UK   (11.19.05)
59. Public practice of any other religion
majad ,   sauda arabia   (11.19.05)
THIS IS WHAT WE R SAFARING FROM
60. Lashes
John   (11.21.05)
This guy is noble. He stands up for his beliefs and is willing to physically suffer for them.
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