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Mofaz: Strengthen settlement blocs
Efrat Weiss
Published: 16.11.05, 17:07
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20 Talkbacks for this article
1. Whats the fuss?
J K ,   NYC, USA   (11.16.05)
There is no way Israel is every going to hand back all the predominantly Jewish areas along the seam line even in a final peace deal. This is where about 180,000+ people live and it would make more sense to attach it to Israel than move everyone. The Palestinians are crazy if they think such a mass migration will occur. The same thing will happen with Umm al-Fahm which will go back to the PA whether they like it or not. The only sticky situations are Maale Adumim and Ariel, althouth they should remain part of Israel. Israel currently has a 9 mile belt between it and the sea for the most populous region of the country and have even agreed to potentially split the country in 1/2 to provide for Palestinian commerce and traffic (a mistake in my book). You wont get everything you want no matter what you want or what Abbas tells you. Best to start thinking of realities and not the Arabian fables of going back to the 1949 armistice lines which is what pre-1967 means.
2. Hysterical P... Now
Matthias ,   Switzerland   (11.16.05)
Peace Now, you got what you wanted when the Gaza Jews were expelled; now shut up and PISS off NOW!
3. ELECTION POSTURING.
(11.16.05)
MAKE SURE IT'S A MOVABLE FENCE. CONDI WILL MOVE IT FOR YOU.
4. oh great! more fiefdoms & ghettos!
Israeli ,   Israel   (11.16.05)
just repatriate these people back inside the Green Line and set up a proper boarder...it will be cheaper than providing security for all these rebellious freeloaders!
5. J K... Matthias....You got it WRONG
Ramzi Sfeir ,   Bethlehem, Palestine   (11.16.05)
Both of you live thousands of miles from this land! First of all, Leave us alone! secondly, its clear that you are the dreamers! Dont dream too much, settlements are a violation to international law, if they will stay it will be the Direct result of negotiations between the interested parties And nobody else( a thing that is light years ahead of us since sharon refuses to negotiate, This fat coward is killing PEACE) , Anyways....I am afraid that one day you will watch your TV set and CRY CRY CRY over the people who will leave a lot of settlements! We will have frontiers with jordan, we will have most of the Westbank and Um il Fahm if you insist, if we dont get most of the Westbank back (GREEN LINE), Israel will never live in peace, no matter what you believe or say, israel is surrounded by a lot of arab nations and it is obliged to live with them in peace in order to survive( Strategically,economically and logically, you cant pretend that you are living alone) so one day, an israeli leader will understand this because till now, sharon's policy is clear : "Give us Peace and fight terrorism, we take your land and throw you away" well, For all those of you who live far away from here, i say to you now , Palestinians will never disappear, we will grow , we will be stronger...Israel is FORCED to live with us and we are forced to live with it! and i repeat WE ARE FORCED to live with it, Peace is not a CHOICE its an obligation and a one sided peace is never going to make anyone live better ( Look at the First World war, they disarmed Germany and 30 years later, it became the bloodiest nation ever : This is a one sided peace plan) Its clear that israel is much stronger than us but its not a game of who is weak and who is strong, we have a just cause, we are human beings and for its survival, israel MUST give us our rights! Otherwise, israel will not be able to exist as a Jewish state!and you know this VERY VERY well! So instead of talking nonsense and building walls and unilateral borders, israel better builds bridges! you will say " Terrorism" ...My answer is simple : Netanyahoo's regime created the Powerful Hamas, so dont blame everyone for your own mistakes. , Stop killing the palestinian authority, and give the palestinians Their Most basic RIGHTS : FREEDOM AND RESPECT! then we will all live in peace! nobody will ever use terrorism! Before saying terrorism , say " But why do they do this?" and try getting out of the BOX! Nobody is violent or no reason, and nobody gets MORE violent unless his position is Prooven by someone else( each time bibi opens his mouth, hamas becomes more and more popular ...) I RECOGNIZE MY MISTAKES! Recognize yours! WE ARE OBLIGED TO LIVE IN PEACE IF WE WANT TO EXIST! and when i say PEACE ! I MEAN JUST PEACE! Israeli brothers and sisters : VOTE PERETZ!
6. There you have it
CZ   (11.16.05)
Palestinians all over are endorsing Peretz from Abbas to Qurei to this mifager. Anyone who votes for him over Sharon is a complete idiot.
7. #5
J K ,   NYC, USA   (11.16.05)
Wow, what a lot of words. I never said the Palestinians are going anywhere. Neither are the Israelis. You will see it come to pass that basically no one is going to move, and the only way that can happen is if the settlement blocs along the seam line are incorporated into Israel. Or is it only Israelis move and no one else? I dont think so. A successful negotiation is one where no one walks away happy. Yet, you persist in only one side....either the Palestinians get everything or there is no peace. And you call Israel the unilateralists? Laughable. I am not saying 'terrorism'. The Palestinians actions speak that on a daily basis, so there is no reason for me to add anything. Why do they do this? Why did Ghandi match peacefully against a regime more powerful than Israel? Probably has something to do with their philosophy vs. Islamic thinking, but I wont go there. The Palestinains will have their state some day....behind a big wall on about 90-95% of what they expect. This is the future and every single plan that has been presented to the PA has borne it out. Look it up if you dont believe me.
8. Mofaz fools no one
Adina kutnicki ,   Nj   (11.16.05)
While Mofaz and Sharon literally gave away the farm, by handing over Israel's security to its genocidal enemies, what chutzpah to now talk about "settlements". Pandering to the national right is an art form with the miscreants from the Likud. While it is true that the Bush administration, via its new pit bull Condi twisted their arms, any other NORMAL country would have said three no's - NO to national suicide, No to capitualtion and NO to our genocidal enemies.
9. #5-YOU LIVE IN FANTASYLAND. THERE IS ONLY ISRAEL
(11.16.05)
AND THERE WILL BE AFTER YOU ARE GONE.
10. Ramzi the intifadeh is your legacy so far.
R Saus ,   Montreal CA   (11.16.05)
Ramzi, you have more rights than most Arab peoples in any Arab country anywhere. Stop yelling about International law and start focusing on applying some damn law in your own backyard! Law & Order for a change, disarm hamas, stop incitement and hatred, then maybe you will have a platform to make friendly requests of the Israelis. You claim terrorism is because you have no freedom & respect, I claim it is because radical islamic ideals call for the murder and destruction of Israel. First Deal with your own internal society's problems, then lecture Israelis about what you consider theirs. You have the right to vote, administer your education, administer your own courts & justice system, your own police forces and security forces, you control your own banking and economics systems, the list goes on, so far with all the rights the Palestinians have they haven't shown much in the way of handling them very well... Freedom & respect cannot merely be bestowed, they must also be earned so get to it already as the rest of us 'thousands of miles away' on planet earth are not very impressed so far! If peace is an obligation, how's about the Palestinian Authority finally meet even one obligation they've taken on the last 15 years.
11. # JK
Nicolas ,   France   (11.16.05)
"either the Palestinians get everything or there is no peace. And you call Israel the unilateralists?" 22 % of historic Palestine is too much, then you can go to hell. Israel will stop to be called unilateralist when they accept normal and respectfull negociations with their palestinians partners. "Why did Ghandi match peacefully against a regime more powerful than Israel" The ideology of Ghandi : what a beautifull wish. First, I expect you to apply to it, it means when there is palestinian violence Isreal should only use non violent tactics of "self defence". Secondly, you should know that Ghandi thought that the best way to fight the Nazis was the Non violence..... "The Palestinains will have their state some day....behind a big wall on about 90-95% of what they expect. " Israel is so nice that it is willing to return almost all what it stole, what a gift. Moreover, if this 95% look like the Barak's maps I'm not sure this conflict will end wih this kind of "peace". The world will not let Israel develop Appartheid in the Middle East.
12. Fire Mofaz!
Michael Steiner ,   Praha, EU   (11.16.05)
NO!!! NO more settlements. No more MONEY for the settlements. No more BLOOD for the settlements. No more humiliation because of the settlements. Are we going to support the kind of racist brats that routinely attack our own security forces? And who routinely attack vulnerable and innocent Palestinian people (e.g. those animals that earlier today destroyed the Palestinians' olive harvest)? The mitnakhalim do not behave like Jews or like Israelis but like odious racists. We must weaken and marginalize them; not strengthen them!!
13. #11 - Silly Nick
J K ,   NYC, USA   (11.16.05)
A) There is no historic Palestine. There was a region called Palestina created by the Romans to make history forget Jews ever lived there after the revolts, but that didnt work. The 'historic' Palestine you refer to lasted 29-30 years and has ever changing borders due to the whims of the British government. B) 22%? The Arabs got 78% when Jordan got broken off and formed into Trans-Jordan. And to clue you in, there wasnt a 'Palestinian' people until 1964 when Arafat declared a movement. Up to that point, the Palestinians were the Jews who lived there. Try history on for size. C) Israel conquered the territories in question from Egypt and Jordan. If the Palestinians hate occupation period...why didnt they fight to throw off the yolk of the Egyptians and Jordanians for 19 years? Why a Liberation movement 3 years before Israel even occupied the territories? What did they plan to liberate? D) and you'll love this one. Barak's map? People get this wrong all the time. Cantons? I think not. Read it and week. You are either a liar or ignorant, but this should help you out. Have a nice hot cup of shut up. www.mideastweb.org/lastmaps.htm
14. To Nicolas
Mikael ,   New Zealand   (11.16.05)
Ah fine words from the "great republic" which sits on the brink of implosion!
15. NICK right you are
G ,   USA   (11.16.05)
The Jews -zionists- AIPAC-have an influence now in USA congress and taking US tax dollars ( israeli WELFARE AND AID) - but that will end soon- Too many Americans are sick and tired of Israels crimes. and the US getting blamed for it- The world WILL not tolerate a racist apartheid state- no matter how much oil surrounds it- Hybrids ,and alternate energy sources are in development- even the USA army has a hybrid truck now-
16. Gee, did he discover his beitzim?
(11.16.05)
No Condi took them with her.
17. Good morning NYC and JK
Nicolas   (11.16.05)
I'm very confused with your post, Do you recognize the existence of a Palestinian people or is there only some arab squatters between Jordan and the sea ? Is Jordan the real Palestine ? Is there any occupation for you in the middle east (I am not referring to what the GIs are doing around Baghdad) ? About the Egyptian and Jordanian "occupation" of Palestine between 49 and 67 you should admit that the reason why these armies were in the area was the war of 48 during which 800 000 Palestinians became refugees. So we can say that these armies were there to defend the Palestinian people against the Zionist militias. Moreover, we have seen in History worst occupation. Just for fun, the presence in WB and Gaza of the Egyptian and Jordanians last 18 years, the first intifada break out after 20 years of Israeli occupation and colonization.... Your maps are very interesting, I’m sure the Taba’s ones are even more. But the fact is that Barak didn’t realize the third withdrawal which he should have made under Oslo III. That he explained to the world that there is no partner on the Palestinian side. And he gave the order at the Jerusalem police to kill stone throwers. Today, the reality is : the old Hebron is one of the worst place to leave on earth if you are not Jew, Kalkylia is one big jail of 40000 prisoners, and every day the situation of the arabs living around Jerusalem become more absurd…. This is a just a zionist strategy : Ethnic cleaning “You don’t simply bundle people onto trucks and rive them away…I prefer to advocate a positive policy, to create, in effect, a condition that in a positive way will induce people to leave.” (Ariel Sharon, 24 August 1988)
18. #17 - It's night here, genius
J K ,   NYC, USA   (11.17.05)
Anyway, back to business. A) As I stated quite clearly in my post, the people who call themselve Palestinians will wind up with a state on less than their leaders have sold them. It is already on paper and has been. QED, I agree they call themselves a people now, but if you pull back the pages of history, their 'peoplehood' is suspect at best. B) Oh please tell me about those refugees. Also, please tell me about the 800,000 Jewish refugees from Arab lands who were taken in by Israel and given citizenship and integrated into society. The only Palestinians in the area who can claim that are the ones in Jordan. The rest of them were kept in camps by their own Arab brothers. Still are. And, to refresh your lack of knowledge of history, many of the Arabs who 'fled' were led astray by the overconfident leaders of the surrounding Arab countries who boasted they'd throw the Jews into the sea. All the ones that stayed became citizens of Israel. You pays your money, you takes your chances. They gambled and lost. Too bad. C) You did not answer my positions at all. Why would a Palestinian national movement begin a full 3 years before Israel even occupied an inch of what the Palestinians now claim they want for a state. Why would they attack Israel if Israel wasnt on their land? Tell me. Tell everyone, please. What exactly were they trying to liberate, Nicky boy? The entire Ynet community awaits your answers. D) They arent my maps. They are the maps that were presented at Camp David II and at Taba including the bridging proposals...or didnt you read all those letter stuck together what make words and sentences? I didnt draw them. E) What else could Barak have done? Bill Clinton and even Prince Bandar of Saudi Arabia said the Palestinians were offered a fair deal which Arafat rejected and then he rejected and even fairer deal at Taba. Go figure you'd find a way to blame Israel for Arafat's intransigence. The Palestinian state you were winding about could already have been a fact. Talk about betting on the wrong horse. (P.P.S - The stone throwers were Arab citizens of Israel and not Palestinians. Not saying that was right at all, but nice try Nicky). F) Today, the reality is, the Palestinans again bet on the wrong horse, Hamas and Islamic Jihad and the launching of the 5+ year intifada which has brought nothing but misery to both sides, especially the Palestinians. Did they simply think Israel was going to sit back and take it? Their tacit approval of this suicide/homicide mayhem and all the shooting attacks certainly tells everyone their's is an ailing society and if you think them declaring a government and a state is somehow going to be a panecea for all that ails them, you can sit back with me and watch the show as scores are settled and the Islamists and seculars fight and kill one another. I'll even buy you a popcorn and a Coke. G) Let me see if I got this straight. Israel makes citizens out of its Arab populace. The Palestinians want whatever becomes their country to be Judenrein and Israel is the ethnic cleanser? You have got to be kidding. I am beginning to think you are not ignorant, just stupid. You really dont think that people on here can see through your obfiscation? There are people that know a lot more about this than you. Better to be thought of a fool and remain silent than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.
19. G - you're pretty ignorant of the facts
R Saus ,   Montreal CA   (11.17.05)
I think you should do some research on that welfare aid you were talking about.. Israel receives military aid from the USA. Israel received only 350 million dollars from the US in non military aid in 2005.. Incidentally, that military aid is spent on buying many US miltary goods and technology from American companies. So get informed because you don't really know what you are talking about! Incidentally, that non military economic aid is in the process of being phased out.
20. USA AID TO ISRAEL
(11.17.05)
http://www.wrmea.com/html/us_aid_to_israel.htm and this isnt including private sector
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