A friend forwarded to me by e-mail the Arutz Sheva video which shows what occurred in Amona. To me, the excessive force is obvious. What the "left" needs to understand is that if police brutality is tolerated and part of the "rule of law," , then when a right-wing Government comes into power in Israel, I fear for the safety and well-being of those on the "left."So why do I care? Because I have relatives in Israel on both sides.

FYI Diaspora Jews, you are being fed false information. I have seen the pictures and videos the settlers are sending out via Arutz 7 and other web sites. They are biased and one sided. Yes there was violence BUT there was violence from BOTH sides and the settlers STARTED IT !! We saw it all LIVE on national TV . The settlers and religious far right are not above our laws although they like to think they are. A Left wing demonstration against the fence was met by rubber bullets , next time the settlers try something again this is what will be waiting for them . Our police put down RIOTS , if you don't want to get hurt then do not riot, simple no ?

I just finished reading the sick and cruel response of a fascist bigot who calls himself Secular Sabra. How dare this hatreful person tell me that the video that I saw from Amon was deceiving. I saw what I saw and what I saw was an ugly police riot by an out-of control police mob. Secular Sabra writes that the settlers startede the violence and that may be true. However, how does that change the fact that I saw police, both on horseback and on foot, charging peaceful demonstrators who were not involved in the the violence at all except to be the victims of police violence. These disgraceful police were beating little girls over the head and were beating peaceful demonstrators who were seated and holding hands. Only a demented and hate-filled sicko could support such criminal police behavior.

To#2 the Secular Sabra No. Police, even in the muddled middle east atmosphere of Israel, which confuses itself with Zimbabwe when it comes to opposition expression and civilian disobeidance & resistance, are not allowed by their oath or departmental regulation to have an "all stops removed police riot" of headbreaking. That is more in tune with 1917 Russia than an alleged democracy. More care is taken with Anarcharists at anti-Globalism protests to not injure or violate rights than was taken with children and residents of an area whose ideology called for resistance. As I understand the facts, (as reported by various elements of the media) negotiations were purposefully rejected by the government and the policy of the use of force set as a means of "theaching the rabble a lesson". I have said in this forum previously, and I am forced to say again a simple truth. Police exist to serve and protect the citizenry and rights of the citizens of the employing nation. NOT the ruling political echelon and it's particular political aims. Force used by police officers is to be used in incremental steps. NOT as an immeadiate action grade. The use of force should ALWAYS be the minimum necessary to effect an arrest and increases in that force incremental that force beeing used to effect a clear lawful goal. Force should NOT ever be used as PRE-punishment, or deterring issuance of some perverted quasi legal PRE-justice. That is NOT law enforcement; it is totalitarism by the ruling political entity. What occured at Armona and to a somewhat lesser extent in Gush Katif is no less a than a mini Tinanamin Square occurance, and closer to a "police enforcement action" of the repressive East Bloc of the 60's thru the 80's, than Israel should expect in the 21st century. Shamful. The writer is a retired Law Enforcement professional.

Then maybe the next time the poor little cry babies will think twice about breaking our laws then. And maybe their fathers who sent them there will be big and brave enough to come out of the shadows :) The settlers have no problem beating up unarmed Palestinians and destroying their livlihood , now they get some of the same and all they can do is whine and cry and lie. They are a bunch of hypocrites .

YNET article: "MK Uri Ariel (National Union-National Religious Party), who also took part in the riots" I am astounded YNET printed this libel. MK Ariel did NOT riot! THERE WERE NO RIOTS! The faces of the three patriotic Jewish MKs are very well known. The police knew exactly who they were beating up. Arab MK Bishara has called several times for an antifada against Israel. Other Arab MKs also support the violent overthrow of Israel. Can Israel's government explain why the government allows Arab MKs to commit TREASON and hate incitement to a second holocaust of Jews, and patriotic Jewish MKs, Ministers of Israel's government are viciously beaten up by Israel's police? The peaceful protesters were savagely attacked by police who used all their might in hitting the protesters repeatedly with metal batons. The Jewish protesters sustained serious and multiple head wounds. Others, broken jaws, ribs, and limbs. Febraury 1, 2006, a day of infamy that will be recorded in history, when 7,000 Israeli police and IDF went to war against Jewish innocents.

He has a deep hatred for Jews

I really do not think that Secular Sabra is a Muslim. The hate and the venom that was displayed in the video against the residents of Amona by the mounted police was overwhelming and intense. The "settlers" are the enemy of Secular Sabra, not the Palestinian Arabs.

Secular Sabra is a Kibbutznik and has lived here since birth and my family since before the State was concieved. I will be voting Kadima like most Israelis . Mainly because I cannot stand the way things are here anymore. I want change , I want seperation of religion from State. I want Law and Order enforced . And I want an end to the immoral occupation and for all settlers to come within the wall or go back to America from whence they came.

I am astounded. Worse, I am deeply saddened that the simple concepts of law enforcement and a well founded (Israeli) criminal justice system is so clearly perveted & MIS-understood, as is the concept of civil disobeidance, opposition and the use of force by authorities, as an end. I do not know what to add, or how to express my revulsion to the Bolshevik thought patterns and remarks of the "Secular Sabra" who obviously at a total loss to comprehend the concepts of law and the enforcement of law. If "Secular Sabra" is an example of Israeli thinking (likely based on the Socialist group think of numerous Labor government controlI) and I fear it is, then Israel has a huge threat facing them(greater than Iran and Hamas); the basic misunderstanding of how democracy works and the concept that power and authority are not to be given free rein to exhibit that authority & power, but the excersise of responsibility that comes with it. In a basic law enforcement class consisting of members African police officers, I have experienced greater understanding of how law enforcement, use of force and expression of authority work than I note in these remarks. The writer is a retired Law Enforcement professional

And we Jews will be some bad-ass heavyweight boxers with chips on our shoulders.

Exactly what laws were being broken by little girls who were seated, holding hands, and engaging in non-violent protest? Are you saying that the police have the right to attack non-violent protesters? Whether you agree with the settlers or not is meaningless because you obviously want a dictatorship that would only allow protests that it approves of. The laws that were enforced at Tiennemann Square against peaceful demonstrators are your model of police authority. So, in your mind, police brutality is fine as long as it is against settler children? Who is the hypocrite here? Do you want to revoke freedoms that allow protests against government policies except those that would allow protests by groups that you approve of? Face it pal, you are a non-religious fascist.

Sir, Israel is not America. We don't need your lectures from afar. If you care come and live here like we do, if not whine somewhere else. You don't have all the facts , what the settlers are putting out on the web are lies and extremely one-sided. Very much like they have done with the stories of Baruch Goldstien and Yigal Amir which is >>> blame everyone else and do anything to avoid being responsable for their own actions. But you side with them all you like, I could not care less . All I care about is our secular Democracy.

I'm so happy that you want change in Israel's government including separation of religion and state and the removal of all the settlers from Judea/Samaria. That is your right and I would imagine that you would aprove fof rallies and protests against Likud and Labor policies that are not in your vision of what Israel should be. It is also interesting that you are in favor of law and order. Now let me give you a hypothetical situation to show how full of shit you are. Suppose you and others of your beliefs were peacefully demonstrating against a new Knesset bill that would mandate more religious control of the government. Suppose also that some in your group lose their cool and begin attacking police by throwing rocks. Suppose the police lose control of the situation and charge and beat the peaceful protesters, including YOU and you are seriously injured. How would you feel about law and order then?

Exactly what I am trying to say. { Try not to attack the messenger :o) } The settler youth were prepared for battle, they had cinder blocks and bricks prepared on the roofs and poles full of nails and chemicals. Before the horses were sent in they had already beaten one policemen half to death on the ground , you don't see that on your video do you ? But we saw it and more. The " kids " were screaming for civil war and throwing thousands of BIG rocks at the police that is why they sent the horses in. They wanted this . They love the attention ;) They think it won't happen again because they have made so much noise this time. Next time we won't let our police be hurt, next time we use tear gas and rubber bullets.

Gidon Ezra must have been to Ireland and kissed the blarney stone. He knows how to spin a tall tale and try to confuse the issues. The police and army are responsible for law and order, they take orders from their ministers who are responsible to the knessewt.The issue here is police brutality and incompetence which led them to resort to brutality. The issue is not the protesters. If the protesters broke laws then it was due to police and army failure to maintain law and order.Kicking people in the testicles and calling women whores and making lewd remarks is not part of law enforcement. If Ministers Ezra and Mofaz gave orders to resort to this behaviour they need to be arrested and tried for violation of the law and civil rights!

To Secular Sabra, I was not simply applying Law Enforcement Standards in the United States as a model by which the Police authorities of Israel could benefit, but the Standards of most western nations sustaining a democratic form of government. You mistake presentation of fact and the application of a specific science, i.e., Law Enforcement-Criminal Investigation with whining. A serious and telling error. Many years ago, when I was freshly out of the Marines, and a rookie in police work, a clever older Sergeant told me the worst trait to display was that of "the arrogance of ingnorance". If you are, "Secular Sabra", ill informed or worse, simply stupid and not able to comprehend basic concepts such as right and wrong, keep your mouth shut and pray (or in your particular situation, hope) that no one realizes exactly how dumb you are. You are quick to make an ad hominem attack on me personally. Yours is not the first and most likely will not be the last. I dont have all of the facts??? Correct. I do not. The in-place government de facto is doing all it can (including publically stating that is is going to quash the investigation) to ensure that no one has all of the facts. Facts are funny things. As in Herpes once they occur they never die or leave. Your plaint and hope for a "secular democracy" free of the "lies" of those with whom you disagree (those pesky "settlers", your brothers and sisters) is very foolish, for the freedoms you would withdraw from some will eventually be withdrawn from all. Wether you care or do not care about my opinions makes not one whit to me. I have spoken truthfully and acccurately about matters with which I have particular and singular education, experience, field specific training and certification. It is not a matter of me picking sides; it is a matter of a search for truth and justice. Both Jewish concepts obviously well outside of your socialist Kibbutz upbringing training. A truth and underscore to the failure of socialism and ignorance. Another truth: With democracy comes responsibility. Olmert et al has chosen the Mugabe format. And that is not up for discussion.

Typical American arrogance. Guess what. We get to vote, you don't. It's our country , not yours. Way I see it, you should be busy righting the wrongs in your own country and keep your BIG nose out of mine. God knows your country is a bigger mess than mine. The settler movement is over, now all we need is all you know it all American Jews to stay where you are and we might just get our pride back.

the defination of sabra is prickly on the outside and sweet on the interior but this writer time and time again proves to be just prickly.

I used to be sweet until someone I loved and respected was shot in the back at age 73 in front of his family and friends by the likes of those you defend.

I'll try to remember your anti-American cousin prejudice, that if given by a European would bear more than a whiff of typical anti-Jewish odoure. Your particular demand and kind exclusion will be with me the next time the Israeli four billion dollar begging bowl is passed and the request for international political cover, military equipment, and economic largesse is given. Your Schlachim keep popping up at various Federations all over the U.S. They obviously did not get your memo. Not that I would favor influencing my political representatives to not support Israel. While you as a single individual are personally rude and not merely abrasive and greatly in need of an ass kicking; you are not deserving. I however am better than that and you are not among the worthy Jews I would be hurting if I did try to influence my representative to reduce America's generous charitable support of Israel. You get to vote. It is your country and not mine. (another thing for me to remember when the israel government tries to link the "Jewish people" and the land) The "land" is being frittered away by poorly educated, souless & slovenly cretins and self serving petty thieves who are closer to Central Asia in their political thought than any western democracy. If you (Israel's government de facto) strives and works very hard, maybe, just maybe you could be as democratic as say Chile or better yet Costa Rica. Ahh. Another dream not to be realized. Voting is a valuable and treasured event. You get to vote this time. If you get your way you may not get to vote at a later time. Many Iisraelis have taken what was given them and made wonderful use of it. Others are running headlong toward a cliff and do not know it. The "settler movement" may be indeed over. We will see. Certainly the days of doing the Hora around the campfire Kibutznik style, and making the yearly trip to the US to beg for help is certainly over. Now you let your government do the begging. If you, "Secular Sabra" want your pride back (from wherever you have disposed of it) I suggest that you make an attempt to lose your anger and develop a calmness of character and maturity. You just may trip and stumble over it someday. Analysis of what you write leads one to think that it is a forlorn hope. And have a nice day!!!!

We all have pain and suffering in our lives, from 65-69 I served in us army in viet-nam, later to make aliyah during yom-kippur war, it IS COMMON KNOWLEDGE THAT IN ISRAEL IN 60S LEFT- COMMUNIST KIBBUTZS raised money for vietnamese to purchase weapons and bullets to be used against american GIS, should I speak in the terms you use against jews living ON THE LAND HASHEM PROMISED against the communists you live among who also work the LAND HASHEM PROMISED,I have seen too many young men lose their lives, should I point my finger at your kibbutz, Sabra--- ---

The right to be smug ? The sooner you Americans realise that you don't rule the roost the better. Our country Yoel , we will run it the way we see fit.

My dear Yaakov. You are partly correct about the difination. Unfortunately you have added an warranted "ly". in the specific circumstance at hand. It works fine without it.

Dear Secular Sabra. I am truly sorry for your pain, and lost innocence. How difficuclt it must be when all of those "Jewish settlers" criminally assault aging loved ones with firearms as they are so wont to do. Why there must be thousands of cases like that. You read about it all the time in the papers. This must happen a lot to have so jaded you and taken your "sweetness." All of those nights dancing around toe campfire and living in the baby house,.....lost. Those I defend are just people. People who expect to have their elected government behave like civilized democratic representatives and not Bolsheviks and members of Dzershinsky's Iron Guard. But, life is hard. It is even harder when you are stupid.

It's incredible that Secular Sabra never responds to the issue of police brutality against non-violent protesters. This demented soul either cannot comprehend what he is reading, is becoming senile or is in the throes of some kind of mental illness, Secular Sabra, in plain English, how do you feel about the police attacking non-violent protesters or do you believe that the videos are a myth?

The videos from the settlers and from Arutz 7 are biased and do not show both sides . Anything else ?????????????????

I wish to extend an apology to all readers herein. I was under the mistaken apprehension that "Secular Sabra" was a rational person with fully formed ideas based on opinions honed by preceptions of precieved facts and due a modicum of respect. Crossing swords with the disabled is anathema to me and opposing in that manner is reprehensible. My entres are a provocation to the childlike "Secular Sabra", and is akin to bull baiting or picking on those with a not fully formed intellect. I did not realize. For that I am sorry.

You win the right to be an obsessive asshat. Good luck with that .

The police are not a punching bag,they are an iron heel on the necks of Jews. We all saw how cowardly they behaved in Nazereth. What is wrong with our country? They are supposed to protect and serve us. Not beat and throw us out of our homes. What is the matter you punks do not have guts to go up against organized crime? Wimps in blue!