is doubtlessly clever. But in this case, he is quite wrong. While Israel is an important manifestation of Judaism today, I think that here in North America, we probably represent the equivalent of the Babylonian Amoraim in this age, and Israel , hardly could claim to be the equivalent of the Amoraim of Eretz Yisrael. Some of the recent trends in Israeli religious life today are quite worrysome, be it from some haredi fanaticism to some of the dati leumi, which have turned recently into anti state. Why just read the pages of this very paper, as well as Maariv Yahadut. With the way some of the Israelis express themselves -cleary intolerant and racist- North American Jews placed in a position to have to read or hear the trash, would be first to call the cops. Sorry Mr Yehushua, Israel have lost many claims on being civilised. Being able to sell books and garnering the occasional Nobel Prize in Maths, is not enough. Witness some of the recent expressions of the recent laureate. Some humility is in order !

but at least it is reading the Zionist press.

Converts to judaism may be considered jews but they are not descendants of the patriarch Abraham, hence according to the Torah, they have no right to the land of Israel as according to the Torah, G_d gave it only to the descendants (biological) of Abraham who also include the Ishmaelites or arabs. Hence, the land must be shared between the arabs and oriental jews. Don't put a political spin on it, The Torah is clear on this issue. Eastern European jews have no connection to the Land. By the way, I am the rabbi of a small group of palestinian jews (the Samaritans) and we have small communities in the west bank and Gaza. We observe jewish Halacha law and jewish traditions but we are palestinians and not Zionists. The Chied Rabbi Yehuda

Exactly Shai, you are right. I came to live in Israel & here I stay. Its up to us to get our country going. If the outsiders want to tell us what to do, I say to them,"hey come live here, at least try."Its great to come for a visit,just try living & working in Israel,you will be so busy, you wont have the time nor strength to yap yap yap !!!

I have never read anything of Yehosua's, but I think it's great when Israel can claim some sabra high culture. I suspect, though, that Yehosua's "Israelness" does not mean "Jewish Israelness" but "Jewish-Arab Israelness" based on his mysterious idea that living in the same area produces a common identity and that many Israeli Arabs (I assume) speak Hebrew. To see how strange this idea is, consider that Israeli Jews have lived next to Arabs since the founding of the state, and does anyone think that an "identify" is shared between the two groups? Most Israeli Arabs would dispute the idea. His is also a minority opinion, in that I have seen data suggesting that most Israelis, if they have to choose between identifying first as Jews or first as Israelis indicate that they are Jews first. His projections about what will happen to Diaspora Jewry are actually based on extrapolation of a few data points, much like the "demographic problem" that Israeli leftists throw around but that has now been shown to be false. I posit that we have no idea whether assimilation will cause Jews to vanish in the US. Hang around the Five Towns in NYC and tell me if you see assimilation. Indeed, one might say that Israeli intermarriage between Jew and Arab is itself an likely long-run outcome in Israel if people like Yehoshua continue to rule the Israeli universities and government. I also hear that many Israelis believe that Israel will not be around in a few decades. Don't get sore. What will continued hard times do to Israeli Jewry? What will increased levels of religiousity do? Will the sabras take off for Europe or the US and leave Orange Israel in charge? Don't laugh: Judaism is evidently toxic to people like Yehoshua. Most important, though, is a simple question: what great people would ever voluntarily ignore or negate thousands of years of high culture and history? Do you think the people of Italy would cut themselves off from Ancient Rome, Dante, Michelangelo, Bernini, or Carravaggio? How can an "Israeli" who claims to be cultured ignore the vast cultural signficance of Tanakh and Talmud, let alone the rest of Diaspora Jewish high culture. Finally, and here I risk pissing people off again, but the extreme Israeli post-Zionist Left has been running Israel since Oslo. What has this done for Israeli well-being? If a Jewish Israel is to survive, perhaps it is even more important that JUDAISM be emphasized there.

Much of this can be traced to the fact that in creating Isreal we threw out the baby (Judaism) with the bathwater. Because we didn't create a state that validated different expressions of Judaism as ligitimate, we made only Orthodoxy "religious"- thereby alienating generations of Israels to religious identity/expression. See below for thoughts on Israel as the center of a Jewish people, Ahad HaAm 1897- and still hit home today! "Judaism is therefore in a quandry: It can no longer tolerate the Galut form which it had to take on, in obedience to it's will to live, whel it was exiled from it's own country; but without that form, it's life is in danger. So it seeks to return to its historic center, where it will be able to live a life developing in a natural way, to bring its powers into play in every departmetn of human endeavor, to broaden and perfect those national possessions which it has acquired up to now, and thus to contribute to the comon stock of humanity, in the future as it has in the past, a great national culture, the fruit of ht eunhampered activity of a people living by the light of its own spirit. ... This Jewish settlement, ... will become ... the center of the nation, wherein its spirit will find pure expression and develop in all its aspects to the highest degree of perfection of which it is capable. Then, from this center, the spirit of Judaism will radiate to the great circumference, to all the communities of the diaspora, to inspire them with a new life and to preserve the over-al uity of our people. When our national culture in Palestine has attained that level,... [we] ... will be able to establish a State there- one which will be not merely a State of Jews but really a Jewish State. " Ahad HaAm 1897 The The Jewish State and the Jewish Problem. For more thoughts, read more of the early Zionist thinkers- it lends perspective to today.

Judaism as seen in its religious aspect is indeed important. WIthout the religion and the traditions that it carries, the Zionism impulse would have been amputated and the ultimate result of the Basel convention probably different. On the other end, too much religion can lead a head of government making monetary deal in return for religious ( shas ) support.

the Jews or the Americans any favors? Koppel spent the last two years bashing the War in Iraq. He would be bashing an attack on Iran if you gave him his job back. He's a pascifist living in the 60's. He would walk into an oven and never question the guy telling him to get in. All those Arabs are nice guys in his eyes. American deaths are needless, and we've lost 2400 men in three years. I can only imagine Ted reporting the 50,000 thousand deaths at Gettysburg in a three day span. The blacks would still be enslaved. He would have bitched and moaned until the Civil War was stopped. Ted Koppels opinion means dick! People with no will to survive listen to his ilk.

Fair enough, he is entitled to his opinion. However, the majority of Jews around the world probably do not agree with him. Without the support of Jews in the diaspra, Israel would not last one in the jungle. Without Israel, the Jews of the diaspra would also face a great threat of persecution and anti-semetism. The existance of Israel and a Jewish diaspra is interdependent. For example, Israel is the USA's biggest recipient of foreign aid. Why do they get this aid? It's not out of the goodness of their hearts. It's because of Jewish lobbying and pressure on the US government. There is nothing wrong with this, as lobbying is a democratic right, and Jews just happen to be very good at it. On the other hand, Israel provides a sanctuary and homeland for all Jews around the world. And when he mentions ones own "identity"...that's a very personal thing. He can't speak for everyone.

get some professional help....

Mr. Alef Bet Gimmel Dalet is an author whose works are read here in Israel but whose opinion is basically ignored. 1/2 of the school children in Israel are religious and the future belongs to Jews who live in Israel, not secular Canaanites like him. He talks like he pees; to the wind.

Nothing is as easy as just black and white, and as for A.B. Yehoshoua, he speaks for himself only. http://www.davidicdynasty.org/coffman.pdf

The Jewish people, the Torah, and the Land of Israel are intrinsically bound together as one. There can be no Jewish Israel without Judaism. Judaism will, I believe, undergo certain changes over time. But any changes in Judaism will always be consistent with Torah values. The Jews of the Diaspora will not disappear. Rather, they will be part of Jewish development, change, and adaptation to new realities. This is the way it has always been with our people - The Eternal People.

Thank you very much for the reference on the genetic makeup of Askenazi Jews. This is a very important paper that should be read by all who are interested in the Jewish people. The paper, however, may not be understood by those lacking a scientific background.

1.Diaspora Jewry is fading fast and will be reduced to a few ghettos of UO communities.So if being Jewish is important to you you must live in Israel as called upon in so many ways in the prayers of the believers.To not do so is surely a denial of the Jewish religion. 2. Jews have always had two forms of identification either through religion or as a race of people.Our worldwide failure is not accepting each other as equal partners. 3.Fundraising for Israel is important in terms of diaspora Jewish identification. In economic terms it amounts to less than 5% of the states annual budget.Nice but hardly critical and should not be overvalued. 4. Yehoshua has only challenged those who call themselves Jews but don't accept the logical contemporary consequences of a diaspora existence.

I wonder what response the world at large would have given Mr Yehoshua if he were a woman! It's a matter of free speech, freedom of conscience and religion he is talking about. These are Jewish principles and the same can be found in the imagination of the American Founding Fathers. Will religion save the world from single mindedness or democracy? The word STATE is a verb = express words in speech or writing. Or it is a noun = an organized commuity under one government. Yehoshua is referring to identity in the context of language and corporeal environment. He was not referring to one's conscience. Judaism addresses our conscience. The State of Israel addresses our democracy, our political philosophy and political science. This STATE will characterise the future of perceptions concerning national identtity for all the world just as Judaism has characterised the perceptions of conscience for generations of nations before today. Israel talking about Religious identity = An electric light showing the world how to find candles in the dark. Amen ve Amen

We Jews - for the most part - are descended from those that lived in Judea 2,000 years ago. Israel, the Northern Kingdom, had been conquered by Assyria and its population taken away. The term "Jew" refers to someone who came from Judea, just as a Dane refers to someone from Denmark. One can be a Jew who is religious or not because we are talking about national identity not a religious one. Yehoshua is totally wrong.

Israel was and is established on THE JEWISH RELIGION so why the auther after Israel become one of the model state in the World he want to deny that credit to the JEWISH RELIGION If it weren't for this GREAT RELIGION no jew would had left everything and come to live in this HOLY LAND.

What about the state calle USA built on robbed indians' lands ?? Should Whites and Blacks return to their country of origin ?? You should go back to school to learn the way each nation has built. And, if you can compare, you'll notice the building of state of Israel is the cleanest of all nations of the world

Your land? Again, YOUR land? Who are you exactly? Because if you are a Palestinian, then there has never been a Palestinian state. I'm not saying there shouldn't be one, but your ugly response indicates that it'll be very difficult to reach an agreement with you. Because you don't want to have a state alongside Israel but instead of Israel.

A.B. won't be able to have it both ways. If he's sees himself just as an Israeli and continues to advocate his stupid "peace now" ideology he's going to lose Israel and his identity too.

Yehoshua does not realize that I can be Jewish in US because Israel exists. It also seems an odd statement from a man where many Jewish Israelis have dual indentities. It also shows the problems with a completely secular form of Zionism. To me Judaism is spiritual path that I can take with me wherever I go. I'm not sure what Judaism is to a secular Israeli like Yehoshua.

If Israel can do very well without shnorerring? why do they still shnorrer? Here too, we will do better without being robbed by the interminable procession of tax collectors from Israel. Situation has gotten so bad, that now gentiles and rabbis go hand in hand to shnorr from unsuspecting gentiles to feed the poor hungry jews of jerusalem . We are bombarded on our tv screens, by the images of the poor and destitute jews in Israel. Have you no shame? Have you lost all dignity? Us jews were proud to be able to look after our own, now we are competing with the hungry gentile Darfurian for his piece of bread? Go get money from the Yitzhak Tshuvas, and the Arisons and many others who are trading briskly in NY high rises and east european shopping centres. You could be independent true, but it is a deliberate decision of the Israeli establishment to done beggars attire and be shnorrers. shame on you, Go wipe your nose, your smark is dripping from your chin already ! Yiikes !

Huh? What are you trying to say? I'm not sure whether I agree or disagree with you as your words are very ambiguous. Can you please explain yourself?

I think you missed my point entirely. Did you read my previous post? I basically argued that the ztedacha from North America is nice but that it leads to an opinion that American Jews are fuding Israel. Which is a farce. You are not funding Israel, not matter how much you want to believe it. With respect to your question about shnorerring my answer is this.... You may be bombarded on "tv screen of images of poor and destitute Jews in Israel" but that does not mean that is factually true, nor does it mean that the democractically elected government in Israel is running those commercials. Those commercials are run by charity organizations to help raise money for donations but if you think that is what real life is like in Israel you are completely disconnected from reality. My point stands though, just because you give money to Israel doesnt mean you "fund" Israel. That's just a disgusting notion if you really believe that.

Ari, surely you are correct, overall, that American charity is such a tiny percentage of Israeli GDP that its significance is mainly symbolic. And yet, some charity is not merely symbolic. For example, I have personally contributed to help Jews expelled from Gaza have a decent Pesach when the anti-Jewish government of Israel wanted only to humiliate them further. There are some types of donations that really do count. And let me tell you, while I am glad to help, that I need to do so to circumvent your "democatically elected government's" anti-Jewish agenda is galling. Yes, I have personally FUNDED pesach for people your government cares nothing about. Might YOU be somewhat disconnected from the reality of SOME of your citizens? Then there are the attempts of the Israeli government to get billions from the US to fund the expulsion of Jews. Again, a few billion dollars is not a staggering amount of money, given Israel's GDP, but it's something more than symbolism. Maybe one reason there is so much Diaspora charity work is because Israel has cut itself off from world Jewry, and giving money is the only thing that world Jewry can now do to connect with Israel. Yehoshua would have the Jews of Israel cut themselves off even more with an ersatz "Israeli" identity. Finally, there is no doubt that the Israeli government has an embarrassing dependence on America. It needn't be this way, and it wasn't always this way. Americans probably just don't understand this dependence and incorrectly conclude that Israel defers to America because of American financial support. I am all for a proud and independent JEWISH Israel. But today's Israel appears neither proud, nor independent, nor Jewish. In my view, people like Yehoshua are largely to blame.

Yehoshoa is and has always been a putz! He doesn't represent any of us and should therefore stick with writing his left wing nonsense!

As an anglo-Israeli I can tell you that those Americans were over-sensitive and AB Yehoshua does NOT represent most of the Israelis. It is unfortunate that A.B. Yehoshua should attack and alienate our most staunch supporters. He is a controversial figure in Israel, while being greatly respected as a writer. Probably they invited him as a famous Israeli author, without taking into account that his views might be more outspoken than they expected. Israelis definitely DO recognize the crucial role of diaspora Jews, especially American jews, in our survival. How could we not, with our continual awareness of how important US support for Israel is in the world arena, with our PM and President continually traveling to visit the President to drum up support for our side of things, and of course with the huge sums we receive from the US, both publicly to the government and as private donations from communities to communities etc. The trouble is that the people at the event took it for granted that A.B. Yehoshua represented Israeli opinion or at least a sizeable segment. This is NOT the case at all. From the reaction, it seems that American Jews might be somewhat defensive about living the good life in the US, and he really hit on a sore and sensitive point. I DO NOT think that we in Israel judge Americans and other jews for staying in the diaspora. We are surely glad that they are there to support us in so many ways, not only financiallly. I think that A.B. Yehoshua might express a certain sense of resentment that Israelis DO have when Americans try to dictate policy in Israel, from outside Israel. That's about the only occasion when the kind of sentiment that he voiced might be expressed.

Extremely high intelligence does not always make a fence against foolishness.