I wonder how you are able to communicate with the living world or for that matter just how do such Holy sages show their level of sanctity if not through physical being. Life forces reside in every living thing on this earth from the microscopic bacteria to the largest mammal. Humans try to elevate themselves from all other life forms by proclaiming they are also in possession of a Soul, again, just what is that special extra element called a soul, it is of the same spiritual idea of the Life force. Some people try to find an answer that is acceptable to them, but their answer is personal and never universally acceptable to any other person so the question remains from where is the Life force obtained if it from a divine source then why once it leaves the body it can never return from where it left from if you can answer that in a understandable manner thaen you can make the claim of yours that you are a soul and lives in the world of spirituality

You have a rather interesting interpretation of what it means to be devout. Wouldn't you think that truly religious men, especially these two rabbis would be so pious, so truly committed to their faith, that a few cute women would not bother them. Or are they just a bunch of teenage boys who cannot withstand their sexual urges?

the rabbis are great men, however, they also have to keep an image for the public, ie their followers. so there is immense pressure on them to adopt the strictest religious criteria for conducting their lives. In the times of the Torah, the Prophets and Holy men did not avoid society. I think htese acts are just religious PR. Its also a point of differentiation from the flamboyant rabbis who socialize with everyone, so the Haredi have a "superior" product for the Ultra Orthodox to follow, and therefore thier hechshers are more Kosher than say ordinary Rabbanut ones.

In addition to the waste of money (why didn't they just go all out and charter their own jet?), doesn't God hate pride, including religious pride? Not that these rabbis would give credence to His words, but Jesus Christ had a few things to say about making a big show of piety, and of course the traditions of men which make the law of Moses of no effect.

Yakov, dont judge everyone by the behaviour of a few, thast what the Haredim also do, they judge the secular by the bahiour of the extremeists or criminals. also, check out the events at kenvelo on shenkin, and then see hwo different the rabbis are

I bet they weren't allowed to smoke...

Folks, catch your breaths already. All this blue in the face is starting to look scary... Here's the lowdown on this flight: These rabbis are NOT flying alone. People who spend all day (and night) studying the Talmud for close to a century are not stupid (and tend to be surrounded by pretty bright aides as well). Noone here wuold pay an extra nickel to sit next to a 90+ year old sage. Some would pay not to. But there are plenty of wealthy people who would pay - and fly to Israel from the US and other places just to take a flight back with them. One of the purposes of this trip is to raise money for charity. One thing that would make some donors feel more special - and open his checkbook faster and wider - is ten pretty exclusive hours with the celebrated rabbis who are hitting him up for big bucks. Breakfast with Bill Clinton is available - for a huge donation to the DNC, and soon for Hillary '08. Same deal here. These rabbis don't have money in the go out and buy bling bling sense because they don't go out and buy bling bling. A $100K+ expensiture on first class airline seats is really an investment that will pay off quite well for the beneficiary charities. And as for the no woman thing folks? Both rabbis are both approached by women seeking blessings and advice on a daily basis, and judging by the number of women who just keep on coming... they probably need to try a little bit harder at letting the women know the "No Girlz Alowed" rule.

The Gerrer Rabbe personally is a multi millionaire he owns lots of real estate in Israel and abroad, he inherited millions from his late father, and he paid this from his own pocket, the money he collects goes 100% to charity, so you cant complain, he can do with his money whatever he wants, and EL-AL can make business decisions however they want

I think if it was a Sephardic Rabbi, even very religious, he wouldn''t insist on only male flight attendants, he''d be sitting with his wife and she''d talk to the stewardesses. If the stewardess by chance were Sephardic, she''d probably ask him for a blessing and I would think if he was truly traditional in the finest sense, he''d speak nicely to her and give her a blessing. That''s how it used to be, and I hope still is.

I live in the UK and I am proud to say that I have never come across such intolerance as expressed by this statements which borders on the antisemitic. I would advise yakov to leave Israel because if the present demographic trends continue the Haredim with their dozens of screaming kids are likely to become the majority. And G-d forbid they are even likely to move to Afula.

El Al is a business. They paid, they get. As for all the griping over it. Who cares what they do? It doesn't affect anyone posting an opinion about it. The chassidim in Israel live in a bubble. It doesn't represent Judaism as a whole or impact your lives in the slightest. Attacking them for living as they want to live is the very disease that sent this people into the diaspora 2,000 years ago and continues to divide it today: lashon hara - the evil tongue. My recommendation: shut up.

Their fathers? Women are humans also!

El Al joins the list of Israeli companies bowing to sexist, non-democratic religious bias.

Eight first class tickets were bought and paid for by affluent chassidim, two for their honored leaders and the other six for those who will accompany them. They requested male stewards and no TV. What's the big deal? How did this become a news item? There is no news here, but only anti-religious spin. In halacha, men are not supposed to see immodestly dressed women. Yes, the rebbe can avert his eyes, but if his followers bought him a first class ticket, why should he have to? What's the big deal to have stewards instead of stewardesses? Chassidim do respect women, I am a woman and grew up in a chassidic home. The tone of this article reflects anti-Orthodox bias, not reality.

So the Gerrer Rebbe is a multimillionaire? I wonder wher he and his father got all the money from if the money they collect goes 100% to charity? do you know? i can only guess!!!

There are really 2 issues here. The first is whether it is proper for the rabbis to make the demands they did and the second is whether it is right for El Al to agree. For the first, there seems to be a series of conclusions reached by the readers in which religious Jews are held is poor esteem for making such a demand and being willing to pay for it. If this is the case, then this seems to me to be a chilul Hashem, a desecration of God's name and the opposite of what they stand for. As for the second, El Al is simply wrong. In the US, you can't discriminate because of race, sex, etc. regardless of profit available. Companies which are protected by their societies cannot make profits at the expense of some of its members. Everyhone loses in the end.

and live in the Galut which is to me as I have said before, anathema, never. But you are right, anywhere I am in Israel if they move in I move out.

THESE RABBIS ARE AGAINST HOMOSEXUALITY, BUT ALL THEY WAN TO DO IS HANG OUT WITH MEN. MAYBE THERE IS MORE TO THE ISSUE THAN WE SUSPECT.

I am an orthodox Jew (traditional, but not religious) and i am so glad you made that post. I totally agree with what you said, but not being religious i do not have the credibility to give my opinion on such a matter. I agree that if they are going to America to raise money, they should not be so indulgent with whatever money they do have, on 1st class flights. Thank you for your talk back and shame on them.

#s 37, 38, 41, and 45 certainly have the right understanding of the matter. I do find it very interesting though that there are so many people so hysterically upset that one group of people would buy several seats in the first class section of the plane and ask the airline they bought the tickets from to accomodate a few simple requests. Why do some of you care so much if a great Rebbe or Rav wishes to hold by his principles? Is is because you realize that they are right and you are wrong and you are no better than Nazis wishing to exterminate authentic Judaism? Very sad.....

thats not true in america you can separate sexes. there are a few public bus services in NYC that separate woman on the bus with a curtain down the middle as Halacha perscibes. i dont understand , in synogouge its ok that woman are separate, thats understandable. (you might not agree but youre not screaming about it) but here on a long flight 2 holy jews are not interested in contaminating their minds with woman (possibly) half dressed or even less for 12 hours i would pay if i could for such service. irreligious jews dont understand the concept that orrthodox judaism respect woman more than they do. we know men are pigs and left to themseleves (without g-ds law) they would be shagging anyone they could like most secularists. it is because of this that woman must dess properly in front of men. not because we hate them but because we dont want the temptation.

They could show daf yomi shiurim - couldn't they? Are they going to clear the airport of anyone as well? How about the advertisement signs along the highway? This is a publicity stunt and everyone knows it. Rav Steinman could care less who is walking around. This is not the first time he has traveled. He wouldn't even see them because he would be completely engrossed in his studies. Folks. This is a PR stunt - and has no bearing on these saintly rabbis who probably don't even know this was done for their benefit. At least give them the benefit of the doubt. They are at least as smart as you posters. Trust me on that - you can bet on it.

Osama, Mullah Omar, and assorted crazy imams couldn't have said it better themselves! Men have more self-control and less prurient interest than you give them credit for.

What would you say if Microsoft bought out first class [all 7 or 8 seats of it] when they came to Israel and requested that there be no movies shown on this working flight and special accomodations for their laptops/projector/whatever for the business meeting they intended to hold in-flight for whatever reason? Do you realize just how small the first class section is seat-wise? Do you think that this is the only time that a single group "bought out first class" to travel together as a group? Why should you or anyone else care? I'll tell you why they care: Just like with all anti-semites, these same people would hold that it was a horrible thing just to hear that the Gerrer Rebbe or Rav Steinman was still alive and breathing, much less healthy and running around between continents. It has nothing to do with how they fly or with whom. They could have sat in sardine class and people like this would have found something to complain about.

Quote nr.1#52 Ariel:"We know men are pigs and left to themseleves (without G-D's law) they would be shagging anyone they could like most secularists." Thanks for that observation, it shows you have no idea of civilized secular or religious behaviour between unmarried men and women. A woman should treat men respectfully and vice versa. The last time I flew ElAl the stewardesses were very decently dressed(or do you object to seeing even a woman's face or clothed figure?).I wasn't distracted even for a second, just enjoying the service in Hebrew. Quote nr 2: "It is because of this(quote nr. 1) that women must dress properly in front of men. Not because we hate them but because we don't want the temptation." Why should women accomodate the possibly warped minds of men by covering up totally or simply being banned from sight? This has nothing to do with real 'tseniut'. Temptation is in the mind and can be controlled, a Rabbi of all people knows this. It's in the eye of the beholder. This is hypocrisy pure and simple, even a run of the mill diapora Jew like me, let alone #14 Chassid who's post I admire, can see this.

"Contaminate their minds"? Please elaborate? Do these Rabbonim not see women everyday? Do they not dream inadvertently of them? The Talmud is replete with sexuality and sexual subjects discussed by rabonim at a time when being a Jew was not defined as looking like a 17th century Shtetl dweller and having ultra-conservative, self defined views. The funny thing is that it is people with your attitude "Half-dressed or less" - what the stewardess walks in a bra? that represent the unworldliness of these Rabbis - especially the Gerer - whose interest in all Jews pales against the views of certain Litvak & Lubavitch streams.

The Rabbis are not taking your money ??? The people who are going to donate to these rabbis know everything you know and still will donate to the wonderfull rabbis so they can help those strugling. For those obnoxious (Whats your buisness how the rabbis travel!!!) even if the rabbi would not travel you would not give charity. Usually those who have nothing to offer but criticism are selfish takers and not givers. Advice look in the mirror and ask youself what I am doing in this world did I help a fellow did I do some mitzvos ????

You are making statements that are totaly stupid. I don't know about you, but every orthodox shul that i've been to is extremely noisy and the kavanah level is low with few exceptions. Everyone is talking about sports, business etc. The only place worse is a shteibel, where the behavior is worse especially around the chulent. So don't go around knocking the reform and conservatives. They may not follow halacha - but i guarantee that their behavior is more appropriate. By the way women also hit on you in orthodox shuls!

Excellent - so the next time one of these organizations ask for money - ask them if they give frequent flier points.