The way to resolve the demographic problems is to do the opposite of what Olmert wants. Israel needs to reclaim Jewish land by providing incentives for the Arabs to leave and young Jewsih families to move in. Turning over the alnd to Arab control will allow more Arabs to move in while constricting the opportunities for young Jewish families. that's not the way to go.

More babies less abortions make them illigal more and easier conversions more Jewish immigration

10 steps to a Jewish majority!!! 1. Encourage large Jewish families. 2. Encourage more organization like www.friendsofefrat.org to save Jewish souls from abortions. 3. Encourage aliyah. 4. Don't allow ever allow conservative or reform conversions. 5. Don’t allow foreigners and non-Jewish citizenship under any condition. 6. Revoke Citizenship that were given to the Russians Xtians, and send then back to Russia. 7. Send back any non Jewish foreigners that have been here for more than three years. 8. Revoke Israeli citizenship to all “Israeli Arabs” and make them Palestinians Arabs with guest status. They will be entitle to stay in Israel as our guest in our country but not allowed to vote any national elections. 9. Don’t give up any more land. 10. Transfer all Arabs to Jordan & Iraq. - I know wishful thinking only in a perfect world.

Mr. Ettinger, you're stuck in the last century. Your arguments, while technically true-ish, are irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. In the long-run, we have these three options: (1) Withdraw to Israel's international borders; (2) Expel the Palestinian population, i.e. commit gross war crimes, including genocide, and annex the sh'takhim; or (3) annex the sh'takhim and grant the Palestinians the Israeli citizenship. Options (2) and (3) are suicidal, which leaves us with only the first option. The status quo cannot be maintained forever: no occupation in the history of the world lasted in perpetuity. Wake up and smell the coffee. The Land(tm) is not an asset; it's a liability. Those with a land fetish can stay where they are and become Palestinian citizens. The rest of Israel is getting out. QADIMAH!!

I agree with your analysis regarding Population growth amongst Jews. More children per family. But remember a Conversion not according to Halocho is no conversion and you are just adding more goyim to our land which in time they or their decendants will turn in to thorns in our eyes. Now regarding Olmert and his policies as well as his predecessors Sharon... every one sees now how they are clueless. Its high time they listen to the shulchan Aruch where it explicitly states that we are forbidden to relinquish one Iota under the circumstances we are in. Look Shulchan Aruch 328.

Convert all the Palestinians to Judaism. I know this is not exactly a popular option. but there are many examples of the Israelites doing this in the bible and at other times in the history of ancient Israel (cf: Josephus & Philo). Why not try it today?

The so-called "orthodox" Jews are just a cult - they do not represent the real humanist values of the Jewish people - the values of the reform movement and the enlightenment which brought us Einstein, Freud & Herzl. The only thing the Orthos ever brought us was sweaty caftans and embarrassment.

What will be Mr Ettinger's answer to a foreseeable demand by Palestinians living under Israeli control in Judea and Samaria to take part in voting for the knesset?

I disagree about the conversion part. Some of the most loyal Jews are ones that converted. If they take the time to want to join why not too many barriers can disuade a lot of people. We need numbers and we have to take who we can. Some of the greatist detractors within Israel right now are Jews so let's take as many loyal people as we can if they want to convert.

Hm, why don't we stay in the realm of the real world with our options? Sounds like an idea some might salivate over (I admit to being quite partial to it myself) but I think there's a greater chance of Akhmadinejad recognizing Israel than of Palestinians converting to Yahadut. Besides, how: voluntarily or by force?

It's very easy for you to say that land doesn't matter. After all, Kassams can't reach the EU, yet at least. I agree with you that at some point the Palestinians will have to gain sovereignty and be cut off, completely, from Israel, but with terrorism still a threat to national security, these plans for the future must wait. Giving the PA more territory simply brings the Kassam launching pads closer to Tel Aviv.

was it not "the humanist values" of Marx and Trotsky that brought us rivers of blood and wastelands of famine? If the "Orthos" only brought you embarrassment, at least they never brought this.

"Be realistic" - for the Jews that usually means: be prepared to consider the impossible. After all, Herzl was hardly considered "realistic" at first... And no forced conversions (we know from the Marranos that that doesnt work) - I would make it voluntary - bet you we'd all be surprised how many Palestinians would take-up the offer. Just a thought. You might dismiss it as a preposterous harebrained scheme, but it always pays to think outside the box.

How many jewish grandchildren have produced your great leaders of jewish enlightment ? Don't search too much, the answer is quick : zero !

First of all, you cannot blame Marx or Trotsky for the tyranny & murders created by Stalin. Marxism - and Trotskyism are perfect illustrations of what I'm talking about - the desire to create a utopia in which all human beings are equal and work together as a single global community. The fact that such humanistic ideas were later twisted and misused to justify inhumane dictatorships in the Soviet Union and elsewhere is hardly the fault of the original philosophers and revolutionaries. And while we may disagree with Marx' philosophy, one can hardly accuse him of not having virtuous and very Jewish-minded goals (despite the fact that his family converted). As for Trotsky, had he not been murdered by Stalin's agents in Mexico, communism might have turned out very differently.

Actually, a quick search of google will reveal that Freud has several Jewish grandchildren & greatgrandchildren - some of them living in Israel. You are silly.

to become a Jew u have to aquire traits of: loving kindness loving fellow men respect for wife and family and so many others. Do u really see arabs willingly taking on these traits? That some convert individually, that's fine, but en -masse, doesn't sound to me

There is a third way to peace in the long term, which respects both Jewish and Arab human rights, but maintains Israeli control of the land of Israel. http://www.israelnationalnews.com/article.php3?id=6075

Why shouldn't we let the Arabs in Judea / Samaria vote? There is a stable 2/3rds Jewish majority, and all we have to do is have a constitution which makes issues which are existential for the Jewish population require an absolute majority vote - which neutralizes the non-Jewish vote on those limited issues, while allowing the Arabs in Judea / Samaria to fully participate in the Israeli Democratic process.

I ususally agree with Yoram's astute reasoning. However, I am convinced that Olmert is only using the demographic bogeyman as a smokescreen. While he hides behind it he is able to safely implement his real agenda - to remove all remnants of Jewish Israel, and to implement ala Peres the 'New Middle East'. Olmert is cold and calculating and his radical left wife is pulling his strings too.

Alas, at the heart of Marx's theory is a lie about human nature, which he should have known, and he indeed shares responsibility for the terror, tragedy, bondage and suppression of the human spirit caused by movements he inspired. As for Trotsky the idealistic leader, we hear inspirational anthems like: "None of us desires or is able to dispute the will of the Party. Clearly, the Party is always right". Or, while he held the organs of power, gems like "I'll shoot you like pheasants" (to participants in the Kronstadt rebellion...thousands were slaughtered)...or this: "An army cannot be built without reprisals. Masses of men cannot be led to death unless the army command has the death penalty in its arsenal." Only when faced with the horrors unleashed by Stalin can we think wistfully what the Soviet would have been like under Trotsky & allies; the underlying lie about human nature was still there, as was the approach that brutality was necessary to bring about eventual utopia.

i think in these days the convertion is mainly to islam it is by statistics and it is volantary not by force even in islam the wife can keep her religion if she is jew or crist but voluntary the wife change its religion ..i think judism is the religion of the one i mean the jew and it is not simple so many jews are secular away from the religion as a religion and they are more israili than jews .i think also the cristinaty is the religion is special at first to the jews to convert to the new religion and the most asking in this aspect is the forgivness as bni israil in these far days were away from the real judism which aske for forgivness and what they did with the man that they thought he is jessus is the real of this not forgive the other and till now ithink that the jews diffecult to forget diffecult to forgive ....lastly iwant to speak about the islam as a religion not about some moslem now adays ,so listen and do not beat me ....islam is the last religion from the same god the only god to all the people so it is to all the people to get it volantary not by force it is the religion of equality all the people are equal in life and infront god and in islam all the good moral is present but sure people different in their morals it is a complicated operation to tolerate this evil time god is oneand it is the absolute justice

What was Marx' "lie about human nature"? That freedom is connected to labor and that all people should have economic as well as political equality? You are perhaps too quick to judge and at best you can say that it was a "mistake" - not a "lie" (which imputes something malicious to Marx' philosophy.) As for the call to violence as necessary to the overthrow of the bourgeouis capitalist system - i agree it's problematic. But if you actually read Das Kapital (which i doubt from your post you have) you will see that Marx never dwells on this particular point - it's more of a throwaway idea. Besides, it is hardly the first justification for violence as a prerequisite for freedom - think the American & French revolutions. Blaming Marx for the evils of the Soviet Union is as silly as blaming Jesus for the evils of the Church.

The demographic argument is deeply flawed and based in good old European racism. What other modern country in the world has a discussion over how to stop its citizens having babies (oops, only its Arab citizens)? Yes, Germany and Japan give citizenship upon the basis of race, but as they do not have a large aboriginal population, this is not a great issue and is only one of favouritism rather than racial superiority. The phenomenon of seeing Israelis worrying about the birth rates of their Arab citizens (and the Palestinians under occupation) is appalling. If the tables were turned and Russia/Germany/Ukraine were trying to count the number of Jewish babies being born and claiming that they were part of a plot to take over the government by democratic numerical means - the whole world would be shouting discrimination. Unfortunately, all the plans of the Zionist agencies - since before 1948 - to try to limit the number of Arabs within the borders of Palestine - have failed. People get married and have babies were they were born and where their houses/farms/jobs are - so you need to get real and ask yourself why, due to an unfortunate quirk of fate, an Israeli Arab family should not have as many children as they wish. It is a human right. It is also a malodorous concept for one ethnic group to try and limit the natural growth of another group. It is an outmoded and discredited concept to discuss "transfer" - which is no more than ethnic cleansing. Mr Robert's disgraceful quasi-academic demographic petition is just that - whether you oblige people to leave by force of arms or whether you offer them financial incentives, the process is the same and it stinks of racialism, yes, good old-fashioned racialism. It is high time that the Liebermans and Kahanes backed out of politics and that the adherents to this fool's paradise of transfer realised that they in fact trying to create a mirror image of the Pale of Settlement. You want Arabs to live away from you, in designated areas, where they can carry out their trades and professions in a separate manner from the Israeli body politic. You can fool yourselves that transfer might work - but that is all you are doing, fooling yourselves. The days of nicking land, demolishing villages and mosques, flattening communities, expelling thousands - these days are gone.

First off let me point out that I too would like to live in a dream world where Arabs didn't make tons of babies but we don't. The Arabs in the West bank and Gaza strip have the highest birth rates outside of Africa so how can you call these faulty numbers. Second, while I have full admiration for the brave Jews living in their historical homeland in Judea and Samaria, it is far more important to have a strong, unified, and overwhelmingly Jewish Israel than rather one that is spread too thin. Israel's modern economy and military will protect the Jewish people, not a couple if towns.