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Neo-Nazis in US military
Eitan Amit
Published: 09.07.06, 10:32
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1. Bush enemy... Anti-war, anti-America
Michael ,   USA   (07.09.06)
The Southern Poverty Law Center actually stood for a good cause once, civil liberties. But in the last decade it stands against Israel, against the liberation of Iraq, and is routinely pitted itself against the Bush administration with insance comments. If there is a problem, be sure Rumsfeld will deal with it. But I doubt it is in the thousands. These tin-head losers don't ever really fight. All they do commit petty crimes and deal drugs. I suspect this is a way for the NOW FAR LEFT group at Southern Poverty Law Center to take pop shots at our President. Again, the New York Times is the medium to do so. Maybe some should take a look at Debbie Schussel's review of SPLC in 2005. http://www.debbieschlussel.com/archives/2005/08/gaza_in_arizona.html Now, imagine for a moment after reading this story that an Israeli having lost his land to a Palestinian the same way. Its easy to do since so many were torn from Gaza. This was done by Dees and American to another American. He robbed an American thru our justice system and gave the land to two illegal aliens. This in itself should be an offense to all Americans. Its disgusting and the SPLC no longer represents civil rights. It represents a socialist agenda, far left, anti-American screed. They rant daily against Bush and I guarantee you they do not stand with Israel. I love Israel, support if fully, but this news should be seen for what it is. Mainly just a propaganda hit from a far left group that once actually stood for good, but is not politically and morally corrupt.
2. Why is this?
Reuven Brauner ,   Raanana, Israel   (07.09.06)
Jews are America's best friends. These guys ought to reevaluate the situation a bit better. 9-11 was an Arab attack. American soldiers are being killed in Iraq by Arabs. American gas prices are all up because of Arab greed. What's this got to do with the Jews?
3. Israeli Atttitudes toward America
Alex ,   USA   (07.09.06)
I must laugh when you spout that propaganda about Israel being friendly toward America. Just yesterday, a talkback on this site had an Israeli calling Americans "stupid barely-literate white-trash republicans in the middle states."
4. #3 ISRAEL is AMERICA'S BEST & MOST TRUSTWORTHY ALLY
Linda Rivera ,   New York   (07.09.06)
On the basis of one talkback you condemn Israelis. It is the Islamists who scream "Death to America". Israel is on the frontlines of global jihad, fighting valiantly for freedom for the nations of the world. May Israel win this battle for all of us.
5. #3 Alex
Mike ,   Israel   (07.09.06)
If your going to quote me then learn how to read and understand what i worte. I called you " barely-literate whit-trash'" and its seems i was right since you cant read how you manage to type this i have no idea my i'm sure MSN has a program wher you talk into it and it truns your words into text. Having said that i repeat what i said about you and some of your freinds in the states you blame everyone for your lack of succsess in a country that is the richest in world. You blame the mexicans, the African Americans the chines, you blame all but your self, If i dint know any better i would say your sounding like a white supremist, One quick reminder my American friend with out Israel in the region the states would never come close to the control they have in the region. Keep drinking that moonshine its doing wonders for you brain.
6. # 4 Israel is not fighting for all of "you",
keren ,   sao paulo   (07.09.06)
but for all of "us",first and foremost. If you want someone to fight for you ,call you country,not Israel! What a dare of you !!!!!!!
7. Alex, precisely!
Ellen Prescott ,   Southsea, Hampshire   (07.09.06)
And that comment is quite similar to Kate of London's hatred of 'lower-middle-class white Europeans.'
8. 3 Alex : Take your propaganda elsewhere YOU
Gabrielle Goldwater ,   Geneva Switzerland   (07.09.06)
intetnionally take issues out of context to serve your own agenda of JEW Hate You sound just like one of these Neo's and someone who loves the Zundel's sites
9. Alex. You sound like the NEO's- Facts again
Gabrielle Goldwater ,   Geneva Switzerland   (07.09.06)
big buddy - you are a fruit cake and someone needs to pick on your rotten raisins Israel is America's best ally in the mIddle east - but at the same time not America's slave - but a Sovereign State FACTS: Israel maintains a direct and close strategic cooperation with the United States that has been immensely useful to the U.S. armed forces. Israel provides facilities for the storage and maintenance of U.S. matériel for American or Israeli use in a crisis situation at a key location. Should American military forces need to deploy in the Middle East, Israel has strategically located facilities to help support American forces operating in the eastern Mediterranean, the Arabian Peninsula, North Africa, southern Europe, or the Suez Canal. the quality of Israeli facilities and military manpower is unsurpassed for its maintenance assistance, realistic training, and joint exercises with U.S. armed forces. Israel can regularly provide target ranges and training centers as well as expertise in fighting in extreme heat and desert conditions, advantages the U.S. armed forces have for many years made use of through joint training maneuvers with the Israeli armed forces. Moreover, Israel has the most competent armed forces in its theater. Its military technology and qualitative advances have contributed importantly to American capabilities. During Desert Storm, the U.S. Air Force successfully relied on Israeli-designed Pioneer unmanned reconnaissance aircraft and Israeli-made conformal fuel tanks that extended the range of its F-15 fighters.......... in addition, the highly successful Tomahawk cruise missiles included Israeli-made components. Today, the Pentagon is procuring Hunter reconnaissance drones produced by a joint U.S.-Israel partnership for use by the army and marines.... American and Israeli scientists are worked together to develop the Arrow, one of the world's most advanced tactical anti-missile missiles ..... and the U.S. Air Force is using Israel's AGM-142 HAVE NAP missile (a highly accurate standoff attack weapon) to enhance the B-52 bombers fleet for conventional missions. U.S. officials publicly acknowledge the benefits that the Arrow program has brought to America's ballistic-missile defense efforts. In short......... Israel also has great value to the United States as a port of call and training ground for U.S. troops. and many more advantages ........ Want me to carry ON ? start to think before you blabber idiotic nonsense
10. 7 The Jihad bride Ellen better known as Olivia chirps in
Gabrielle Goldwater ,   Geneva Switzerland   (07.09.06)
This fruit cake of a woman Your stupid incoherent blabber is such a bore kiddo --- that you make people jawn No class - No education - No Nothing
11. To Mike
Alex ,   USA   (07.09.06)
I wasn't quoting you, but another American-hating Israeli. And look at the headline on this article: not saying some far-left outfit makes an accusation, but Army Heil. In other words, a respectable Israeli newspaper is repeating the Bush = Hitler meme. Oh and by the way Mike, "didn't" is not spelled "dint" among the educated. Are you positive you have not been knocking back a little moonshine or worse yourself?
12. #4 To Linda from New York
David ,   Los Angeles, USA   (07.09.06)
Thank you for your intellegent response to these racist yahoos. I am sure people in New York understand what the people in Israel are going through. The war on terror is like a war on crime, there is no end to it because terror is committed by criminals.
13. #3 & #5
The Voice Of Reason   (07.09.06)
Israel is beyond a doubt America's best friend in the Middle East and perhaps in the world. Our ideals and Israel's are in line. We both simply want more for our children than we have and to live in peace and prosperity. With that said, neither of you are doing yourselves or your countries any great service by attacking each other rather than explaining your individual positions and backing the position up with logic. Because one Israeli, or one American, has a negative view toward the other's country does imply for a second that the majority concure. Most Israelis admire and respect the USA, and I believe that most Americans think the same of Israel. This American certainly does. Further, that does not mean that either country is perfect, but it does mean that both strive for value and greatness. America is an amazing country in which any person who is willing to work hard can achieve; Israel is the Jewish nation, the only Jewish nation, with the ethics and brain power on which humanity is based. Both special and unique in their own right.
14. To # 13
Alex ,   USA   (07.09.06)
Because you do sound indeed like a person with the qualities implied by your signature, I shall try to respond with the courtesy and sense that you have shown. My best evidence for current Israeli anti-Americanism is found on this site. Just think for second about the little Heil Army logo on this article, implying that the US = Nazi Germany. Or try looking at talkback # 45 under yesterday's article with the headline "Israel rejects Haniyeh's ceasefire proposal." I concede that each of these is a tiny example of Israeli hatred of the US and perhaps should be viewed as merely the rantings of a minority (although this newspaper that equates the US with Hitler's Germany is a bit influential.) What I do notice, however, is that no Israeli ever calls anyone on the pervasive anti-Americanism. It is the exact same argument as applies to Moslems: maybe 70% do disapprove of terrorism, but they say and do nothing about the 30%. Furthermore, all of this is consistent with a long Israeli history of anti-American acts: the Lavon affair (in which Israeli spies tried to bomb US facilities to provoke the US into war), the USS Liberty (when Rabin said he was glad that it was Americans that the IDF had killed), the repeated espionage into the US Defense Department (Pollard and Franklin), the sales of advanced weaponry by Israel to the Chinese (which Mike justified by saying that it might make some money for Israelis), and so it goes. Notice I am not calling names or making anti-Jewish slurs, which I despise. I am reporting on stuff that ANYONE who looks at this site can see and on historical facts perfectly ascertainable to anyone. One final point. Israel is an avowedly religious state; the US has a strict separation of church and state and tolerates all religions that remain peaceful. Israel's history is basically socialist; America's capitalist. These are profound differences. Those differences do not make me hate Israel, but they may make Israelis hate the US.
15. #13 Well said i stand corrected
Mike ,   Israel   (07.09.06)
16. #11 Alex
Mike ,   Israel   (07.09.06)
thanks for the spell check as i dont have one on my sytem nor is English my first languge and you must know, but i try to do the best i can in 4 that i read and write i'll try not to make the mistake again, and no Alex no moonshine here friend.
17. To 14
Shai ,   Israel   (07.09.06)
No, Alex, Israel is not an avowedly religious state. It's no more Jewish than Canada is catholic, and if you want to point at our being a Jewish State as evidence, then why does our law of return permit non-Jews to be citizens under the Law or Return? Why does it not enforce religious education? Why does it not require everybody to keep the Sabbath? I'd venture to say that the US is a more religious country, to its credit. The separation of church and state that is in America evolved over the last century. For the first 175 years of the country, with blue laws, Christmas programs in public schools, etc., and even today with coinage that says "in G-d we trust" (not even Israel has that!), the US defined separation between church and state differently. To its loss in my opinion, amongst many it has veered sharply from its previous status as a G-d fearing nation, and evidence abounds for the moral weakening of America especially in urban areas (crime, teenage pregnancy, theft, etc.). Israel hasn't been a socialist country for at least 15-20 years. It still has some vestiges of socialism, and some of its capitalist structure is not fully cooked, but we have a different history than the US, a different culture , too - that comes mostly from Europe, and just because we in some ways resemble Europe more does not make us an enemy, any more than England is an enemy. Obviously, socialistic England is America's greatest ally. We could go tit for tat on how the Israelis and Americans don't always share the same agenda. I think more than a dozen commissions looked into the USS Liberty affair, and the only people who deny the conclusions they all came to are people who WANT to believe Israel is an enemy of the US. Regarding the Lavon affair, Israel was so embarrased by it that its government couldn't even admit it did what it did for almost 2 decades. I don't think anybody in Israel is proud of the Lavon affair. It was a stupid act by stupid people. Franklin was advancing his own career he thought, and was trying to entice Israelis to take intelligence that he was offering that could have saved lives. As it turns out, this kind of action was common, not just with Israel, but with America's other allies and even the press. This will become clear in the trial. Regarding Pollard, his crime is not denied. But it's not a reflection of hate for America. Rather, it's a reflection of Israel's lack of certainty that the US is giving it the intelligence that it promised to give them by treaty. There's something there for you to ponder as well about how good a friend the US has been with regard to protecting Israel's interests, too. Regarding the Chinese, all the deals the US wanted cancelled were cancelled, at great loss to Israel's economy, so important was the American stance on this. What more do you want than that? THe Israelis thought the deal had no reason to be opposed as the US only spoke up at the last minute about it - and they were informed about it. Nobody's speaking up about US slurs, because most of us don't perceive any. I think you are way too sensitive, Alex, to this - and you are drawing the absolutely wrong conclusion about how Israelis feel about the US. By and large, the US is our best friend. We support it in all UN resolutions. We stand by it in all its sorrows. We offer it technologies and methods of warfare that save American soldiers' lives. We would fight next to it if it would let us in Iraq, in both of their wars. I can't comprehend how you could interpret it any other way than friendship.
18. #3
Jane   (07.09.06)
Israelis and Israel love and respect America. One person's opinion does not mean anything. And that one person would, from the turn of phrase, appear to be just another American
19. To Shai
Alex ,   USA   (07.09.06)
Shai, I always respect your views; they are cogent and sensibly stated. I shall take your word that the proposed deals with the Chinese were originally seen as benign by the Israelis, and I do know that they were ultimately cancelled. I shall not mention that example again. Nor do I deny, how could I, that the Lavon affair and the USS Liberty happened long ago. (I am less inclined to believe that the commissions you refer to disclosed or were granted access to all relevant information; there are too many responsible people in the US who are not anti-Semites and yet claim that Johnson ordered the results that were published.) I would give up on these examples too if I did not see so much anti-Americanism on this site, which after all represents a broad spectrum of CURRENT Israeli voices. Nor do I see any reason why all differences in view or agenda need lead to animosity. For example, the point about separation of church and state in the US is that no religion shall "be established;" that means that no creed is favored or supported by the state. It does not mean that US governments must refuse recognition of or sensitivity to the religious beliefs of its people. There is a segment of the American public that wants to interpret separation of church and state in the way that you specify, but it is not a majority view as proved by the constant resort to the courts rather than the legislature to promote it. I do think establishment of a religion is a topic with fundamentally different views between Israel and the US and that such a difference MAY contribute to a lack of understanding of the US by Israelis. I certainly understand that few countries have ever adopted the US position and that the history of Israel leads it to a different position. As for my comments, I point out examples of anti-Americanism on this site. Example: the Army Heil logo on this very article. Somehow, no one seems to notice that this is equating the US Army with the Wehrmacht. Symbols demonstrate things. In this case, my interpretation of what is demonstrated by the failure of anyone to object is either a) Israelis quite consciously do equate the US and Nazi Germany, or b) their culture is ingrained with so much anti-Americanism that they cannot even notice how offensive the logo is. Quite a few Americans died fighting the Wehrmacht. So yes, I am offended by the fact that not one Israeli noticed or commented. I am no more sensitive about anti-Americanism than civilized people are generally about anti-Semitism. If it is not fought and pointed out, it grows until it poisons a whole society. I would think that just as Israelis understand that anti-Semitism must be combatted vigilantly, so too must anti-Americanism.
20. To Jane
Alex ,   USA   (07.09.06)
I agree with you that the turn of phrase shows great familiarity with US idiom. However, the person claimed to be an Israeli, and I took the person at his or her word. It is one of the failings of white trash like me.
21. Alex
Jane   (07.09.06)
I am an American Israeli. I have seen first hand the love and warmth extended to each and every American who sets foot on Israeli soil. Israelis don't give directions to Americans, they take them where they are going, invite them home and treat them like family. This is extended to all Americans, not Jews only. There may from time to time be frustration with a government policy or statement, but it is looked at more like a disagreement amongst family members. The gratitude for and appreciation toward America - for its help, steadfastness and values - is palpable. Israel does, of course, help America in every way it can - much of which cannot be spoken about.
22. #6 keren - Israel is the Most WONDERFUL Nation !
Linda Rivera ,   New York   (07.09.06)
Obviously, the IDF fights first and foremost for Israel !!! But, as this is GLOBAL JIHAD, when Israel fights, they are also fighting for all the nations. May G-D's protection be always upon the IDF, IAF, Israel, and every Jew. Israel has always been, and will always be, a light to the nations.
23. To Jane
Alex ,   USA   (07.09.06)
I do not like to disagree with someone who is as courteous as you seem to be. I hear your words and believe them to be sincere, but they seem at variance with the facts I specified in the last two paragraphs of my comment # 19 to Shai. If what you say is true, why is no Israeli offended at equating the US Army to Hitler's Wehrmacht as is done in this very article by a well respected Israeli newspaper. Army Heil indeed.
24. Skinheads don't last long in combat zones
Walt O'Brien ,   Columbia, NY USA   (07.09.06)
This was a problem of sorts during Viet Nam. How it was dealt with was assigning them to combat duty. In a military 40% of which was then and is now blacks and other minorities, including many Jews, believe me, the problem was expeditiously dealt with most satisfyingly, in many instances I witnessed of service-related anti-Semitism and racism. These Nazis seek their own destruction just as the last bunch did, and the U.S. military is more than happy to oblige them in an unofficial capacity.
25. To Alex 19
Shai ,   Israel   (07.10.06)
Alex, did you know that we have Nazis in the Israeli army, too? I mean that literally, not for the idiots who use that word loosely - they are immigrants from the FSU, who came because they had relatives in the past who were Jewish, but who even hated Jews when they were there. Many Russian immigrants begged the Jewish Agency to be more selective, but no small number made it here. They are the ones who paint swastikas on our synagogues here, for example. They are a scourge. But it wouldn't have occured to me that the picture attached to this article, whether in the context of the US army or the ISraeli army, would say anything about the army. I think you interpreted it in a way the rest of us don't and that explains why we didn't protest. There are just, unfortunately, a lot of sick hateful people out there. But the point is that just like the USS Liberty and the Lavon affair there are people here who have their quips with the sense that Americans have a greater say in how we run our government than we do. Often, it seems Americans feel that Israel's agenda doesn't allow the US to pursue its interests with Arabs as much as it would like. But I think it's legitimate to look at the facts and see, irrespective of the influence of our friendship, that both countries persue their interests nevertheless. That's the way it is with countries. Saudi Arabia got those AWACS. Contrary to previous agreements, they got to put their F15's at the base closest to the Israeli border. American military manufacturers frequently push their country's weight in getting other country's to drop agreements with Israeli manufacturers in favor of their own. It leads to bad feelings, and I myself have said that it'd be best if we reduced our dependence on American military aid to gain more independence politically (economic aid is only about 10% of the aid we receive, and the military aid is mostly spent in America) but I think the overall relationship is very, very strong. We will forever be America's friend, not just because you are powerful and can protect us, but because we admire your conviction to what's right. We see in you the only people who have the courage to understand the position we find ourselves in, in this impossibly complex conflict. So, our hat's off to you Americans - you are the greatest country on earth, the admiration of us all. Understand that this sentiment, not the one you sensed, is the genuine sentiment of Israelis.
26. #22 Yes,Israel is and will be more and more
keren ,   sao paulo   (07.10.06)
a light into nations.I have no doubt about this. But for the moment ,you should do a better effort in convincing your country and western powers to do it. I don't see your christian doctrinal driven effort being very effective by here. It seems to me more an ill obsession towards Jews and Israel than any other thing. Well,that's my opinion. Note:Maybe you could answer my deep doubt:do you want to convert yourself to Judaism,or do you believe that sooner or later we Jews will have to convert to your faith . Please,answer me this obscure point about you ,christian missionaries intentions.
27. Alex 11
keren ,   sao paulo   (07.10.06)
I doubt very much you can speak another language than english;I doubt very much,as I see you are not a noble and high educated person at all. I know people at the very first sight. Israeli people usually speak at leat 3 languages.This is very common in Israel,and often you see people speaking 7 to 8 languages. English is not Mike's first language as he said,as well it is not mine,so it is normal make a lot of mistakes.But we are here communicating. I doubt you have ever put your nose out of your city;very different from us that are traveled,interested and cultured people. You should shut up!
28. Alex
Jane   (07.10.06)
We do, in fact, have our own lefty garbage. They even call their fellow Jews by the name "Nazi". Alex, it's the price of living in a democracy.
29. To Keren
Alex ,   USA   (07.10.06)
It is clear that you yourself are quite cultured: "shut up" is such elegant English and shows such an intellectual capacity to address issues on their merits. I am amused by your arrogance in your claiming to know people at first sight. You are off by 400% in your assessment of what languages I know. The idea that anyone who happens to disagree with you is uneducated is, I am sure, a great comfort to you. Delusions usually are.
30. To Jane and Shai
Alex ,   USA   (07.10.06)
Jane: I understand the price of living in a democracy is that people are free to say what they want within VERY broad limits. The corresponding duty is to CONFRONT those who say or imply stupid or evil things. Shai: I have absolutely no issue with Israel having its own interests that may diverge from those of the US. As you say, this is true of all countries that are independent and sovereign. The US has interests that will diverge from those of Israel, and you presumably have no issue with that. Obviously, however, interests that diverge too far make countries enemies. The Pals for example will be enemies of Israel at least until they accept the legitimacy of Israel, and they will be enemies of the US so long as they accept the legitimacy of terror operations. So the practical question is always how far do the interests of two countries diverge. Sharing an enemy does not make countries friendly allies as the US should have understood in WWII with Stalinist Russia. The fundamental issue is what I see as a tolerance of anti-Americanism among peoples who claim to be our friends. Perhaps I am far too quick to take offense, but perhaps others are far too ready to ignore or even excuse offense to those they call friends. Be well both of you. It is good to have a conversation about differences of opinion that does not degenerate into name-calling or stereotyping.
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