Two very accurate and eloquent articles today. One by an Arab and one by an Israeli. Could it be the birth of a new era. I truly hope so. I also hope that hot-headed-got-nothing-to-lose-people read these articles and see how much sense they really do make.

is apparently unable to grasp that the Palestinians, with their violence, their hatred of Israel, their anti-Semitism, their ambition of destroying Israel, come from an Arab-Muslim culture that has different values from Western pluralist, live-and-let-live values. It would be wonderful if serial killers would turn into nice people, and if the Mafia would become a charity organization. It is inane to write about people while ignoring their mindset, their background, to think that everyone in the world is reasonable and liberal and has the same values that you have yourself. The Palestinians come from a culture that practices "honor killing," the torture and murder of gay people, female genital mutilation, and that systematically inculcates hatred against Jews, American,s Christians, Shiites, and so on. Israel has released thousands of terrorists from prison, offered to give up the Temple Mount, destroyed thriving communities in Gaza, etc., etc., etc.--really prostrated itself--to try to achieve piece. The answer is terrorism, terrorism, and more terrorism. Mr. Ben-Meir cannot master this reality. Perhaps he sees it (how can you not?) but doesn't have the courage to face it. You cannot change the aggressor by smiling at him.

die foolishly as if they were deck hands rearanging the chairs on the Titanic as it sank.

Spoken like an analyst with up close and personal experience rather than the prescription of someone whose only experience of these matters is a printed page. Almost all of the men and women who have stepped forth to lead their people’s cause since 1948 have lacked the academic qualifications for the task of such leadership. So many have floundered in the morass of Cold War international relations and since the close of that era in the region all who have followed have floundered on the subject of independence. How many of the leaders of the Palestinian people go to sleep at night believing that what they say in public about the ability of the Palestinian people to defeat Israel is believable? They cannot believe it. The Palestinian people cannot muster the strength to defeat the Israel Defence Forces. So they go to bed at night trying to believe in the impossible and therefore they rise to espouse nonsense. Therefore you have liars and gunmen all around. Paranoid and psychotic leadership. The two State solution is impossible without the proper qualification for it and that means more than a formal agreement on ceasefire enforcement measures and agreed procedures for sharing security intelligence. The two States need more than a set of new uniforms. They need a stronger set of beliefs and these must come from faith in more perceptible articles of faith. The people need faith in each other’s humanity. The adult population need to share some Mass Media coverage and exposition of the definition of Universal Human Rights and the International Bill of Human Rights. Ask any Palestinian in the street, ‘What is Separation of Powers in the Constitution?’. What are the offices within the Constitution charged with doing?’, and how many of them would even begin to know how to answer you? How many could quote you one of the thirty articles of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights? But the present state of affairs in the region is a consequence of the Second World War and that war was fought, in large part, because the world had no Universal Declaration of Human Rights. It was fought between Imperialists, Socialists, Fascists, National Socialists, Communists and Democrats. What do Palestinians know about Political Philosophy ! How can the people choose leaders if most people have no conscience of a world governed by political scientists rather than warriors and martyrs? How can they, THE PEOPLE, articulate an international pact of terms for co-existence without the terms of reference requisite? Palestinians lack articulate Mass Media. The people of Palestine do not interest themselves in Israeli newspapers and television programmes. Most of them cannot understand Hebrew. Therefore, the world community and its leaders must put pressure on Arab Mass Media to actively and pro-actively engage themselves in reports and expositions of the DEFINITION (not only issues) of the Universal Declaration and International Bill of Human Rights. How else can the adult population find the words they need for the expedient two State solution? Responsible governance! Where on Earth is that happening? These two States cannot exist in exclusivity. They need to be able to articulate grown up ideas. Theirs is a new world dawning but some things never change …. The sun rises and sets on the righteous and the unrighteous just the same. The law is a moral foundation but the word is a quickening spirit. Amen ve Amen

and remember what was the name of the organization that deceived them, lied to them , and cheated them; Hamas. Just like Fatah, Hamas will become immersed in a blanket of corruption, and they will be remembered one day as the destroyers of any hope the Palestineans ever had for a state.

The Palestinian people have choosen who they what to lead them, and it is Hamas. Why can't Israel and the rest of the world respect this choice: they really don't want to have to recognise an illegal occupation, or state-sponsered terrorism, nor should they have to. The failure of Israel to negociate and 50 or so deaths since the kiddnapping says more about the Israeli attitude to Palestine: they have no respect for them. It can only prolong violence. "believing they can defeat one of the world's mightiest military machines with empty slogans and firecrackers." Exacltly, Palestine isnt a nuclear power, nor do they have a convincing army. So why should Isreal feel threated: it seems more like it's Palestinians that are being terrorised. Given a chance to build themselves up, and accepting the responsibilty of having treated them with the disregard and contempt, then they may end up in a position to ask for concessions without having resort to violence to get attention.

.. and destroying their precious families , they will reach their objective of taking over Israel. What about families of Pali Casualties? They think this is Iraq or Afghanistan or Algeria where there is a chance that some countries will cut and run!. They keep dreaming rubbish dreams where "The Jew Pigs&Dogs" will somehow go back to Europe (foregetting how many came from Muslim Countries!). They forget there are over 5 Million Jews there . No EU country wants one Jew , never mind 5 Million!! They dont want Muslims there either! Then they try the "South African solution"- also a no hope plan. Unfortunately EU and BBC type of Media, never tell them theyre wrong. They just encourage them in their futile quest. Leaders like Arafat and the current lot ,just manipulate them with a plate of Humusand a bag of Flour "From UNWRA" written all over it.. The Pals ,percapita, are the best financed refugees in the history of the world, having per capita (again) received more aid than the Post WW2 Marshal plan gave to each European Refugee-ALL WITH NOTHING TO SHOW FOR IT.

jackass

Remember the lab experiment with Rats. The rats learn eventually not to go near the door to get the food because they keep getting a negative feeling from a small electric shock. Eventually their nature changes, they think of other ways to reach their goal. Humans can be like that. We all in our lives have learnt this way. The Palestinians are acting like this. Its fine talking big, deep, intelligent words about governance and democracy and all that stuff but that is best left until way into the future. Left for a time when the Palestinians have got through the first process of learning. Maslow heirarchy is a good way to view this. The Palestinians are not interested in 'self-actualisation' and the stuff at the top of the Maslow Heirarchy they are working their way through the basic levels at the moment.This lesson, that the way of war and fighting is not going to work needs to be learnt and learnt very deeply and then and only then can they be free. Free to take a different approach. So I agree with this article but totally disagree with its conclusion. Now is Not the time to have a cease-fire. Now is the time to crush the rationale of Hamas in the minds of the Palestinians. Crush it totally. This idea that the left, the liberals have that if you're nice to your neighbour who hates you then they will eventually be nice back is total BS. That goes against human nature totally. We are a species that has lived to survive for tens of thousands of years, not just 50 years. This idea of being nice to others and they'll be nice back is a modern invention born out of recent episode in our history where a group of like minded people happen to live in relative peace. It is just a blip in our species history of survival. It is morally bankrupt. I think that if you look at the actions and someties the words of the Israeli government then you will see, I beleive, that my approach is also their approach. I think they have it right. They have worked it out and are persuing the correct path. And this is an approach this is good for both the Israeli's and the Palestinians. To be clear,good for the Palestinian people but not for the Palestinian politicians in Hamas, if you can call them politicicans. How did I arrive at this view? This is just what Kaballah explains to us about how we 'work'. This is kaballah in action.

I wasnt aware that Israel ever occupied Pal territory. All the land conquered in 67 was from Egypt, Syria and Jordan after being attacked by them. Pals are a collection of people from Jordan Lebanon and other arab countries.

I doubt you saw the broadcast on Israeli TV (in Arabic) of the Hamas post-election party where Haniyeh proudly announced to thousands of cheering Hamas supporters, "... first we will torture the Jews, then we will bathe in their blood..." Not exactly Tony Blair is he... Ever read the Hamas Charter that calls for the destruction of the State of Israel and advocates the murdering of Jews... Would you give such a government a chance? Imagine Hamas was advocating the destruction of the UK and advocated the murder of all Britons... what would your post be about then?

JUST TRY TO KNOW IN ' WHAT " THEY BELIEVE , " WHAT " IS WRITTEN IN THEIR kORAN ( ABOUT JEWS } THEN YOU CAN REASON ?? ! !

Everything that rises falls. Humanity has risen enough. Its time to fall. its will finish in its own bloddy whirpool of greed and hatered. Times UP.

hamas abandoned the ceasefire. why? starving the pal because of fair and free election. not allowing the banks to transfer money. not allowing the ministers and MP to travel and arresting them before the even the solider issue and the attack on the army post. do you want more because its a long list. time is up for Israel and even the US in the ME. The palestinian zionist movement just started and hamas is not arafat or abass. the pal trust there new leaders and we are going to make you pay for real and fair peace.

If the palistinian arabs had good leadership they wouldn't be using violence to demand for their rights but they would organise mass PEACEFUL protests to demand for their rights. The world (goyim) is so anti-Jewish or anti-Israeli at present that PEACEFUL MASS protest would actually work. They have the numbers and they have a legitimate case, if they're demanding for equal rights to live and prosper in the land of Israel TOGETHER with the Jewish population and to have an equal say int he direction of the society. It seems to me that the only reason the palistinian leadership chooses violence is b'cos this best serves the pan-islamist cause. i.e. a rallying point to unite otherwise divided muslims (see iraq). IT is a crying shame that palistinain arabs have to pay the prize for such an ideology. To paraphrase an iraqi sunni woman who was grieving her husband after a sectarina attack by other muslims:: "Is this ISlam?", that holds a "cause" to be more dear than the well-being of its own people. Rather than the arab league constantly trying to criticise Israel or JEws can't they simply encourage palistianins to learn from martin luther king, nelson mandela (in later life) and ghandhi, on how to fight for a cause without violence and win. Rather than stoking unjustified anti-Jewish sentiments and denying the hiitoric "bond" between JEws and muslims. So it is clear that in this conflict, unlike any other, Israel is responsible for the well-being of its citizens ONLY, and the palistininans are solely responsible for their own citizens. If they protest peacefully they will get equal opportunites (betach) to live and prosper TOGETHER with the Jewish population, anywhere they wish in the land of Israel. If they chooses violence it will continue to cost them and keep them backward. The State of Israel has already made its choice for its citizens and is willing to accept any price - that is the JEwish population would remain in the land, regardles of peace or conflict. The palistinian side and its islamist and arab supporters has to make its choice but should remember that while it gains almost everything with peace, it pays a much heavier price than the state of israel in conflict. ITs really an easy choice ...

It writes in their koran that the land of ISrael belongs to the JEws and Jews will be regathered to the Holy Land in the end. IT also tells them that they can learn a thing or tow abotu religion from JEws. Perhaps their "commentary" (oral koran) finds a way to negate these statements.

iam not nawal as ben mair is not the one making me suffering ...the wall making me suffering ican not reach my daughter house which lives opposit my house and the radical wall 8meters now laughing at me ,,hamas is not the one will remove it ,,but sure it is not the one built it ,,,,ben mair our suffering is from 1648 as palastinians it is befor haneyya birth day sure .ben mair do you think if the palastinian found the fare ,they will admire any violance as you now admire israil violance ,,yes it isthe state violance to all palastinians ,,and in your openion is the time is not with the palastinians becouse the power is with israil ,,sure we all know this but our suffering is from the ocupation ,,let israil end the ocupation remove this wall or put it on the green line ,,and iam personaly will admire its power not only its exestance ..mair evry thing have a solution by negotiation even if you speake with the evil ,but not by the crazy power ...any speaking without orders befor ..even when god aske people to believe on him ,warship him sends the prophets with miracles ,,and i think israil do not need mirackles to listen to palastinians even batboote is the presdentt ,,

first all the palastians as people know about the power of israil no question about it we see it on the earth and on the air mmthis is the first point ,but these big words about mass media ;;human rights .political philosophy .democracy the cold war i ,,,all these are empty if the power kill the people and all the faith ,,only the faith on god justice of god ,,and this is the only feath presente on palastinian hearts ,,sure i hear this faith evry now and then from all the palastinians educated and not women and men ,,they said god will breake this power ..but all your words do not help even the UN DO NOT HELP THE PALASTINIANS AS IF THERE IS THE VETO ..TELL ME HOW MANY VETO WAS AGAINST THE PALASTINIANS RIGHTS ,,,THIS IS AN ADDETION TO YOUR PHILOSOPHY

WHEN THIS DAY WILL COME I HOPE YOU WILL NOT BE ON THE EARTH SURE IAM NOT BE ALSO ..BUT I WANT TO TELL YOU NOW TO LOOK BACK SIXTY YEARS OR MORE ,WHERE YOU ARE ,,BUT IF YOU WANT ME TO LIVE ANOTHER SIXTY YEARS I WILL TELL YOU EHRE YOU WILL BE IT IS BETWEEN WALLS AFRAID TO SEE ANY ONE ,THAT YOU WILL BE IN A GRAVE YES ALIVE IN A GRAVE ,,BELIEVE ME ,,BUT PALASTINIANS NEVER FORGET FATH AND WHAT SHE DID ,,,ENOUGH IT MAKES THE PALASTINIAN NAME ON THE TOUNGE OF ALL THE PALASTINIANS CHILDREN ,,IT PULLS PALASTINE FROM A GRAVE DARLING NO ONE WILL FORGET IT WITH OR WITHOUT A STATE SALAM

THANKS

i tell you i will kill you so you send an aeroplane to destroy my house ,let hamas is a child you are not a child you are big enough complain to your mother USA but sure your mother gave you this one befor i learn to speake to kill me sure myou are afraid from the words and writings as a people but as a goverment ...so let the israili goverment throw a nuclear bomb on iran ,becouse ahmad injade said he want to destroy israil ,,but sure you say he is a child and your mother aske him why darling take some shocolate and be quiet salam my name is rasel from gaza

i have time just like gabriell where are you .. we believe in god and sware by god ,,and we believe of kuran and sware by it we know it is god words not changed ,,and we sware with the blue sky we know it is god who created it ,but israil make the grass red and the sky blake specially in gaza ,,and still we sware by the blue sky ..god will not change its rulegod is the justice

time is up by the god not by our hands as humans .we do not know god will ,,so leave it to god ,,but learn how to swim to the safty shore salam it means peace

thanks for your comments. all dialogue has value. let me clarify my point. Please look at the UN's management of the Refugee Camps on UNRWA web site. Look at who gives the money to UNRWA. Look at where it comes from in the world. GOD doesn't want people to destroy each othr. GOD wants people to open dialogue of negotiation and where possible reconciliation. Nations don't die. People die. But history records the last days of nations and nations who promote armed struggle are doomed to meet their last days. The world is trying to invest money and democracy in the articulation of human rights. Look at Articles 29 and 30 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. Palestinians have to come out fighting. But they have to come out fighting for an end to Armed Struggle. Which nation on Earth can put an end to armed struggle in the region. PALESTINE Palestine is the nation who has the most insecurity of all the nations in the region. So become the regional teacher. Set the example par excellence. Lead the way into the future. Roll back the clouds and let the sun shine on people's faces. Demand an end to Armed Struggle. MAKE IT A SACRED CRUSADE. And when this moment arrives. When the leaders in the region can see public demand for an enmd to armed struggle is a serious public effort and not a shout into the storm....then the serious talking and the actual investments of money and effort in the institutions of human rights can begin for all the people there. Not for Palestinians only. Not for Israelis only. But for all HUMAN BEINGS. SHALOM ALEIKEM AMEN VE AMEN

Mediterranean Jews and Palestinians are so genetically similar that they can donate blood and organs to each other. Jews have no greater historic right to the region than do the Palestinians. They are the same people, just different religions and different access to education. Palestinians are not the sub-humans Israel paints them to be.

I hear you. Loud and clear. Peace-shalom-salaam. Lets all put the extremists out of business. We need to think about a big secular governance for Israeli, Palestinians and Lebanese. Too much dogma. time for peace. we could even start the VOICE OF PEACE radio station again. a good idea?

Britishers are the last to talk about human rights in relation to the Palestinians since they were the very reason for the past, present and may the future of all the problems in Palestine. Way back in 1948 when Britain had withdrawn from Palestine, they left the country in complete chios after giving all the support to israelis. What nonsense are you talking about when the Palestinians lose 78% of their own land and are being followed for the remaining 22% with destruction of the most powerful army in the middle east. Peace can only be made with the strong and one day israel communicated with the PLO although it was considered as a terrorist organization and is not. Killing complete families such as Huda Ghalie's should go unpunished with the lies of IDF that the family was torned into pieces by a mine planted by Palestinians ! Who on earth would believe this made up lie by the IDF. We are people disperate to live our lives in peace and harmony but we are not allowed to. Steve, you should put your self in our shoes and just go to sleep and imagine what would you do if you are left with nothing to lose any more. In my opinion Hammas is only one part of the problem and other part really is the arrogance of pwoer israel is having.

How did they do that? Oh, that's right, they helped the Jews by: 1. confiscating their weapons; 2. interning more than 100,000 of them in Cyprus, and refusing them immigration into Palestine; 3. blockading against attempts at immigration and arms shipments for their defense; 4. arresting soldiers and leaders in the irgun, palmach and haganah; 5. commanding and leading the Jordanian Legion - the best army in the '48 war - and helping the Jordanians defend Latrun and lay siege to the Jewish held portions of Jerusalem; 6. by ordering their police to take no action against angry arab mobs that attacked and murdered Jews; 7. giving weapons confiscated from the jews to the arabs; 8. restricting immigration of the Jews to a yearly quota; and, 9. eventually opposing partition and the creation of a Jewish state - even after they initially championed such a division. With "help" like this, who needs enemies? And why were they so interested in "helping" (ahem) the Jews? Because they were afraid of losing access to arabic oil interests. If Palestinians want to blame someone for what happened in '48(and thereafter) ,they have themselves and their arabic neighbors to blame. The Palestinian leadership skipped off to Egypt and Syria, and often ordered the evacuations of entire arab communities in areas under Jewish control. (Look up what happened in Haifa, for example.) The Jews didn't forcibly displace anyone in '48 more than a few miles, and when they did, they never forced them to leave Palestine altogether . Go look your fathers and grandfathers in they eye and ask them why they left instead of staying on to fight. Ask them if they didn't leave, believing they could return after the Egyptians, Iraqis, Jordanians, Lebanese and Syrians conveniently disposed of the Jews for them. After that, ask the leaders of the contiguous arabic countries about their plans to divide Palestine between Egypt, Syria and Jordan. Go ahead and ask them. They had no plans for a Palestinian State. Maybe this is a little to little, and a day late: but Palestinians really should learn to quit while they are ahead. They should have accepted any one of the multiple offers, over the years, to have their own State and live in peace. Yes Hamas (violence) is part of the problem. But the other part is not the arrogance of Israel. It is, instead, the arrogance of the Palestinians in believing they can still have all of Palestine by taking it away from the Jews by force. Hamas, as you will remember, didn't grab power - they were voted into office. Their leadership is, therefore, the collective choice of the Palestinians to pursue the violent defeat of Israel - even after multiple disastrous military defeats over the last 58 years. Go figure.

Stuart, the discussion of whose land it is, and who has failed to negotiate, may never end. But Israel pulled out of Gaza, providing the Palestinians a chance to build a nation there, while also anouncing a pull out of the WB. Given these new facts, I'm not sure how the Palestinians can justify sending the stream of Quassams into cities, houses and schools. This is why Israel feels threatened, in addition to Hamas' goal to kill the Jews. Just because the Palestinians don't have a strong army does mean they don't threaten Israel. They threaten Israel every day. A stronger country has a right to defend itself against a weaker, but more threatening neighbor. Palistenians have an opportunity to build up Gaza, show Israel and the world they can run a civilized country, and then build up the WB. But, unfortunately, they blew yet another opportunity, and again, point to Israel to blame.

you want to tell that britan help the arab against the jews in 1948 ,no it is not and till now it was not ..from the promiss of blfoor at 1917 and great britian did against the arab not in palastin but all of it ,,and after that the arab help the jews and the britains against the people of palastin then un ,,and usa till now are against the rights of palastinians .hamass is not a problem only to jews .and the others are not against the jews but against the palastinian people if they are on the lands of palastin or refuggee in arab lands no one accept them as resedants no palastinian rights on their lands or on the other lands it is the truth .and terror is a fake word ,,,even stealing a bread for the hungry person ,has accuse ,,and we are palastinian not hungry but under the fire of idf it is a fact also and defence is a fact to palastinians even if they have not one tenth of the power of israil ,...when i have my stat my rights to live and my children to live .what defence will be after that ,,but sure if any one was under the fire [LIKE THE ONE UNDER THE RAINS ASKE FOR A SHELTER OR ANY UMBRELLA IF IT IS SO OLD OR TINY HE WILL RUN TO ANY HELP ,,YES PALASTINIANS WOMENS CHILDREN NEED THE HELP ANY HELP IS GOOD //BUT TO BE AGAINST THEM ,THE SAME LIKE BEFOR IN 1948 THEY WERE WOMENS AND CHILDREN LEFT THEIR HOUSES UNDER THE FIRE OF THE JEWS AND TILL NOW ARE IN CAMPS NO RIGHTS ONLY SOME HELP FROM THE UNRWA ,,AND SOME ONE TELL THAT IS THE MONEY OF usa TO LET YOU PALASTINIANS TO EAT ,,,THIS IS THE HELP OF THE WORLD TO PALASTINIANS PEOPLE LEFT THE HOUSE AND THE LAND UNDER THE WEPON OF ANY ONE BUT SURE IT IS NOT THE PALASTINIANS WEOPON