FINALLY SOMEONE REALIZES WHY THE ULTRAORTHODOX DID NOT ACCEP THE ESTABLISHMENT OF THE STATE IN 1948

See also www.manhigut.org

Watch And Learn http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-9215573308877374512 and http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5040457003958805741 By the sword of Gideon We Will Be Victorious!!!!!!!!!!!

For a good Jewish identity " Torah is the best sechorah" (material)

The problem is the secular state. It must be a jewish state, A secular state can not stand. If we argue that G-d gave this land to us, and we don't do what G-d requires of us, than we no longer have the right to Eretz Israel.

An excellent article by a writer who cut straight to the core issue of Israel's existence. Israel was founded to be the Jewish homeland, not just another generic polyglot of whatever people from where ever they came from.

Retaining your Jewish identity does not mean you must become an Ultra-Orthodox Jew! Having a Secular Jewish society alongside a religious one is not impossible. The solution is simply to educate children correctly about the significance of modern Israel to ALL Jews, secular and religious alike. HELP PROMOTE JEWISH UNITY www.globaljewishcommunity.com

Jewish identity does not have to be rooted in religion. It can be historical and cultural, with the same or stronger belief in the existance of Israel. It is the religious that have spoiled the state through forcing all to follow its rules and stoning those who don't. Compounding the problem is the state's subservience to the U.S. which will lead in the near future to distruction. The failure to attack Damascus (which would have ended hostilities much sooner), is but the latest example.

We have one million Israelis in NY who agree with you. Post Zionism is fine in Los Angeles. In Tel Aviv it is a danger. Our right to Israel is based on our being Jewish. If we consider ourselvs Ugandens then the Arabs have a point go live in Uganda. I close with a wish for the safety of our Jewish nation.

Israel was established as a refuge for the Jewish people. Period. It is not a manifestation of god, it is not some sort of historic, messianic event. It is not a religious event. A refuge for a persecuted people is a good and noble *mission* (in case you're looking for one) and it should not be warped by fascist or religious ideas. It was wonderful for people to practice their religion, but it is not an extension of religion or individualism. This is not Iran.

www.jewishisrael.org

Israel needs to return to its historic mission of serving G-d through the Torah. Any other ersatz substitute is doomed to failure.

I believe this disucssion is needed, thank you for making it clear.

"The State of Israel's failure in its 50s is the failure of the attempt to establish a secular-Jewish society." Still, Israel has more of a Jewish secular identity than the writer allowes. What the country must do is build on it and not reject it. The ultra-Orthodox rejection in 48 had little to do with Jewish secular identity and everything to do with faith. One need not be religious to live a Jewish life, but one must have a an historical understanding of what it means to be be a secular Jew. This can only be done through education.

It's a brilliant article, if israel had time to think, as we have a lot in france, they should lanch a national debate what is the jewish-israeli identity int his world , this should be the daily question of our intellectual, and this question should be discussed by all the different element of the israeli-jewish society.

"The young generation, which lost the Jewish identity, finds it difficult to understand existential war driven by religious motives [...]" This may come as a surprise to mar Hass but none of Israel's wars (and CERTAINLY not the War of Independence in 1948) was driven by religious motives nor did religion feature prominently on either the military or political front. Secondly, I plan to make aliyah very soon. I am not religious and I despise the settlements in the sh'takhim and all the trouble they've caused. And yet, I will defend the State with my life if necessary. While religious ritual IS part of the Jewish identity, there's a great difference between being a Jew and being a Judaist: one can, but needn't, be both.

What you said sounds so logical. But it was great someone dared puting it into words. I totally agree concerning jewish identity's dilution must be stopped before it's too late.

Israel is not like any other nation on the face of this Earth. It has a purpose and stands as a witness to God Almighty.Those who lack the faith to progress through with Gods plan, will be like the Israelites who fell in the in the wilderness . Israel was set up by God , sent into exile by God and been bought back by God.You are not a state that has been bought into effect by the whims and desires of men, your unique , but this brings with it terrible responsibility to the One who has created you.Because you do not belong to yourselves, This does not depend on your 'will' He is going to knock your self confidence to smitherians

This attempt to defend is about as cogent as it gets. Seeking a single race/culture/religious state is not the way, for a number of reasons. It diminishes you to attempt to surround yourselves with only those like yourselves; it means you are diminished in your humanity as you discriminate against the Palestinians both within Israel and without in the Territories; it means that you weaken your security as you do those unpalatable things you must do to those you feel you must expunge from your midst - it is all of these things that diminish that which you hold to be most sacred and dear - that sensitive, deep humanity you nurture within yourselves that you feel is the essence of your Jewishness. I truly feel for you, and I fear for you. And I feel that the citizens of Israel should ask themselves with an open heart, what is the way? Some Jews believe that this sensitive, deep humanity is meant to be shared with the world -

There is no Jewish identity withouth Hashem. The Torah is what keeps a Jew Jewish. These assimilated Jews will be better off in New York with the goyim, there they can live as normal (goyim) and have fun. Olmerts sons had the honesty to realise that years ago

I agree with you in part. Israel cannot survive without its JEWISHNESS. Therefore, in order to survive, Zionism cannot be secular anymore. That does not mean that this view should align with radical elements. It should just mean that separation of religion and state will destroy the JEWISHness of the state although provisions should be in place to serve the secular. Jewishness should be the center of Israel and not a secular state. For those who wish to be 'like all the other nations' Israel is not for them.

What about the million Russian (chickens jews)

To me, being Jewish is much more than following a religion. It is my culture, it is my heritage, it is my history, and it defines me. My identity is firmly rooted in Judaism, and it does not reuqire the Torah to be interpreted as a religious document, but simply as a historical testament of the struggles and culture of my ancestors. Your Judaism is not mine.

it is mission of identity ,,but death of the state ..evry thing return but not the dead ,,jewish state was dead since 3000 years ,,as islamic state was dead since 1000 years ...abnormal to seek now for khelafah it is not extreme but delusion ..but the identity will not missed if a man realize his religion or any identity ...secular is not identity ,,it is a way of life

really interesting article. i'm a secular american jew making aliyah in a few weeks. when i went to an aliyah meeting i was shocked that i was the only female wearing pants. Someone there informed me that people like me who make aliyah are very rare. can't a jewish identity be stemmed from zionism and a love for israel rather than from religion?

Being Jewish it is not connected to a state or a country, Q. What is Jewish identity? A. Being Jewish Identifies your relationship with G-D through the Torah and Mitzvos he gave to us There for the land of Israel is ours because G-d gave it to us, and he gave us many Mitzvos (commandments) that go with it Secular Zionism was doomed to fail, Q. Why should a secular child who is free to do what ever he wants choose to stay and live in Israel and suffer the consequences? Q. What special connection does he have to this land that he should fight for it? MY common sense PROPHECY G-D sent us all this trouble from the Arabs, and what is going to end up happening is either you are going to keep the Torah and cloth your self with a TRUE JEWISH IDENTITY or you going too end up like the lefties today, betraying your own nation and go to the other side to fight along side the enemies, You are going to do all this just to avoid being a TRUE JEW, Sounds crazy but the is the trend we see now, and this is the only trend left.

The pallys would welcome you to live there among them in Gaza ( you have hatred of the 'settlers' in common), the rich pallys, (the ones who send the murderers), have beautiful homes there. You could even negotiate on our behalf for our soldiers but nah, that's too jewhidist, or some weird word you just composed. You hate the settlers? Probably 'cos you have so much in common with them(I'd give my life etc), its a known syndrome. Someone very similar to ourselves, but who is also superior to us in every way , we usually hate them....

Is that the neturei karta palestinan group by any chance that you're referring to? Golly, what a bunch of sweetie pies.