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Olmert to Polish president: You're on right side
Efrat Weiss
Published: 11.09.06, 15:54
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36 Talkbacks for this article
1. The Difference is Olmert was a Corrupt Mayor!
Nannette ,   London, UK   (09.11.06)
Kaczynski isn't open to kickbacks or corruption. Olmert should go - he's a danger to Israel and not fit to lead a brass band, let alone Israel.
2. Never forgive or forget the Polish murderers
Larry ,   Eastbourne, UK   (09.11.06)
Kaczynski is quoted as saying "the ones trying to destroy the Jewish people weren't Polish." What a staggering lie. The murder of over three million Polish Jews would not have been possible without the active collaboration and participation of non-Jewish Poles. There were indeed righteous gentiles among the Poles, but they were a tiny number compared to the Poles who perpetrated, participated in, collaborated with, supported or turned a blind eye to genocide. Never forgive or forget the Polish murderers.
3. To Larry
Piotr ,   Gdansk, Poland   (09.11.06)
You know nothing about Poland in the WW II times.
4. GERMANS RESPONSIBLE FOR HOLOCAUST
P Josephs ,   USA   (09.11.06)
LARRY #2: YOU'RE A COMPLETE MORON. STOP REVISING HISTORY. GERMANS AND ONLY GERMANS WERE THE MURDERERS DURING WWII OF JEWS, CATHOLIC POLES, UKRAINIANS, RUSSIANS, ETC. YOU'RE NOT GOING TO ENDEAR POLISH PEOPLE TO THE JEWISH CAUSE IF YOU KEEP SPEWING ANTI-POLISH HATRED !!!
5. To Larry
David ,   Poland   (09.11.06)
I can see your brain is washed with anti-polish propaganda what seem to be uncured. A partly from what 'historician' Jan Thomas Gross used to write in his libelly books Polish people were victims of WW II. The more that they were duble victims of Nazi Germans and Communist Russians. Despite of that hundred thousand Poles were helping Jews and risking treir lives. Occupied Poland was the only coutry there Germans punished death for Jews! Polish conspiracy army Armia Krajowa (in english Home Army) was killing collaborators who betrayed Jews! The AK provided the Warsaw Ghetto with about sixty revolvers, several hundred hand grenades, and ammunition and explosives. During the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising in 1943, AK units tried twice to blow up the ghetto wall, carried out holding actions outside the ghetto walls, and together with GL forces sporadically attacked German sentry units near the ghetto walls. Security Cadre (Kadra Bezpieczeństwa or KB), one of the organizations subordinate to the AK, under the command of Henryk Iwański took a direct part in fights inside the ghetto together with Jewish fighters from ŻZW and ŻOB. Please read books of some neutral historicians (e.g. Norman Davies) and sourses (e.g. Wikipedia) and you will be suprised by truth!
6. On the same liferaft
Rapahel ,   Paris France   (09.11.06)
Although Poles are born antisemites, even if no Jews are any longer living in Poland, they are exposed to the same danger: German nazi irredentists are supporting Middle eastern Jewkillers and irredentists, as they feel their territorial rights of return to Silesia, Prussia, Pomerania will be bolstered by the palestinian right of return, if ever implemented by the present Munich minded politicians.
7. POLAND PART OF US GULAG
ISHMAEL ISHMAEL ,   TORONTO CANADA   (09.11.06)
Poland is on the right track as an Israeli ally. After all, it is part of the American Gulag of secret torture centres for Muslims.
8. Thanks for posting my earlier Talk Back Ynet!
fadi ,   lebanon   (09.11.06)
9. To Ishmael
David ,   Poland   (09.11.06)
Ishmael prove it or stop to lie flatly, please!
10. Rapahel who are you?
David ,   Poland   (09.11.06)
Rapahel are you german nationalist? I think you are...
11. To Larry
Jack ,   Vancouver   (09.11.06)
Larry, you are a copmplete idiot. Everybody knows that the Germans and Germans ONLY are responsible fopr the Holocaust. People like you make huge damage to Polish - Jewish relations which are perfect right now. Stop spreading anty Polish lies which do not serve any good.
12. to Raphael
Nath ,   Montreal, Canada   (09.11.06)
"Born anti-semities"? What kind of racist worldview is that?
13. to 4
Kofi ,   UN   (09.11.06)
you show your ignorance wish you knew the truth.I can only guess you had no Jewish family in Poland
14. to Larry
Nath ,   Montreal, Canada   (09.11.06)
I recommend you a visit to Holocaust Museum in Washington. They show clearly who is responsible for the Holocaust (German Nazi) and they have a very beautiful section on the suffering of the Poles during WWII. You should also familiarise yourself with statements from such leading Jewish organizations as the ADL, the AJC and Yad Vashem which declared that the Poles had nothing to do with Nazi German concentration camps.
15. to 7
to 7 ,   Kofi   (09.11.06)
no one is stopping you from leaving the country.why drag Canada down to your level.
16. To Larry
Matt ,   Poland   (09.11.06)
Although you're brain-washed idiot with paranoid hatred to Poles, I will reply you. Poland lost 6,028,000 people, of which 3 million were Polish Catholics and 3 million were Polish Jews. Germans murdered Poles the same was as Jews according to Hitler's words "Kill without pity or mercy, all men, women, and children of Polish descent or language". Will you deny these facts, you hater of Poles?
17. Don't absolve yourselves so quickly
RP ,   Israel   (09.11.06)
I have read a number of disturbing statements in these talkbacks completely absolving the Polish people of any thing resembling anti-semitism. This deserves some clarifications. Jews suffered many bloody and vicious pogroms and discriminatory policies at the hands of the Poles for hundreds of years before the Nazis came along. So, in this sense, no the Poles did not collaborate with the Nazis to kill the Jews, they had their own history of it, separate and independent of Nazi atrocities. It is certainly regretable and a great shame that the Polish people suffered at the hands of the Nazis. And, yes I have seen the section of the US Holocaust Museum dedicated to Polish suffering in the war. Such devastation! This, however, does not throw their lot in with the Jews, nor does it place it on par with the most atrocious crime of humanity commit against the Jews in the Holocaust. With this, though suffering side by side, there was definitely complicity on the part of the vast majority of Polish people as they watched their Jewish neighbors go to the slaughter, many of them even turning them in to the Nazis, eager to get the Jews out of their land, their old anti-semitic sentiment bubbling forth. There is a reason most concentration camps were built in Poland. The Polish people didn't speak up against it, even as many of their homes overlooked the smokestacks, next to the forests through which Jews were marched to their death. I have seen the proximity of residential areas to the furnaces with my own eyes. Furthermore, in more than one case, Jewish Holocaust survivors returning to their homes in Poland were welcomed back by cruel and vicious pogroms carried out by the locals. I also saw these sites when I was in Poland, with plaques commmemorating their deaths. This is no conspiracy theory. Of course, none of this is to say that there were no righteous gentiles in Poland. But, just because the Poles were against the Nazis, doesn't mean they were for the Jews. Nor does it make it permissable, nor honest, to deny centuries-old anti-semitism in Poland.
18. It's a new world. Accept it
malcolm   (09.11.06)
Do we forget what the Romans (Italy) did to us? Are we cursing the Spanish for the Inquisition? How about the Iraqis for what the Babylonians did? It's one thing to remember and it's another to obsess. The current and main danger to Israel right now is Iran. Germans provided Israel with 3 Dolphin submarines in the late 90s that can carry nuclear payloads. They are providing 3 more. Even the US would never do that. Germany is Israel's closest intelligence partner and yet the CIA is notoriously anti-Israel (Pollard). Today's Poles have reached out to the US coalition and to Israel. They are both working WITH Israel. The Japanese are America’s ally despite the atrocities they committed against American POWs during WWII. Yesterday’s enemies are old news. Only guilty American Jews and their offspring keep trying to close a barn door they didn't help shut 60 years ago (WE didn't know!!!). Their silence was shameful so today their self-righteous answer is "I won't drive in a German car!". Meanwhile they fill up their Caddys with Saudi oil. Never forget but be able to move on. Yesterday’s enemies can (and are) today’s allies against the current foe, Iran.
19. to madcap larry
Adi ,   Poland   (09.11.06)
It's great for all society that there aren't to many idiots like you. You have to remember that your people in england should be thankful for Polish soldiers which during the WWII saved many, many english backsides. All the world knows about it. Remember also, you never change that history, even if you want.
20. to RP
benak ,   Poland   (09.11.06)
Well,if the polish antisemitism was so big,tell me why the biggest jewish population in Europe was living in Poland , not in other countries? Almost 800 years....
21. to RP (17)
Nath ,   Montreal, Canada   (09.11.06)
RP - I do pretend that there isn't, or there wasn't anti-semitism in Poland. Yes, there are shameful events in our history. There are however certain accusations with which I want to argue. Regarding the discriminatory policies and pogroms before WWII - yes, it happened, but on the other hand the Jewish community in Poland was, for a long time, the most vibrant and most numerous in Europe. Other countries often chased all Jews - so there are no pogroms to talk about...because there were no Jews there for a long time. Overall, the situation varied a lot. I would say it was better than the European average in XIVth - XVIIth centuries, and probably worse in some respects than in some countries in the pre-war period (though yet again there is the issue of the size of the Jewish community). As for the WWII - yes, there were Poles who denounced Jews or profited from their death. But I don't know how can you know that it was "the vast majority". On the other hand there were Poles who executed those who denounced Jews (the home army had such orders), who helped the Jews, who fought with the Nazi, and finally those who were only trying to survive (and this, I would say, was the "vast majority"). I don't want to be impolite, but your criticism that Poles "did not speak against the camps" is very naive. What do you think they could do? Do you believe the Nazi cared about what the Poles spoke up against? And besides, some 100,000 ethnic Poles were killed in those very camps.. To sum up - I am not trying to absolve Poles from anti-semitism when such accusations are justified. But I don't agree that Poles were responsible for the Holocaust or the camps, I do not agree that Polish anti-semitism is "the worse, the most vicious" or anything along those lines, I certainly don't agree that it is "inborn" (this is really a stupid, quasi-racist belief) and I don't like sweeping generalisations. And please note that Larry's comment was very agressive - when you call some other nation "murderers" you can expect that people who respond will be "on the defensive".
22. RP, Israel
Adi ,   Poland   (09.11.06)
Have you ever heard that many Polish people risked own lifes to save many lifes of Jews? Have you or you don't want to know about that facts?
23. Olmert to Polish president: You're on right side
Lizol ,   Poland   (09.11.06)
To Larry, RP Get some knowledge, it doesn't hurt. http://www.savingjews.org/
24. to RP, Israel
Matt ,   Poland   (09.11.06)
If antisemiitism ever existed in Poland, it is because of such perfidious slanderers like you. Firstly, the Polish land was the most friendly to Jews, otherwise Jews must have been total idiots to have settled in Poland for all those centuries. Note that 3,5 million Jews, more than half of European population lived IN POLAND! Secondly, Poland was famous as the most tolerant country in Europe and not a single heretic or Jew was burned during the reign of the so called Holy Inquisition. Thirdly, Polish ruler prince Jarema Wisniowiecki started the war against Kossacs only to save Jews who were massacred by them. He made the expedition to Cossacs lands and saved more than 200,000 Jews by bringing them to the Polish ethnic lands, free from Cossacks. During the march he said his famous words, "I will go back to Poland as the last one to be sure that not a single Jew left behind" Forthly, in 1938 Poland was the only European country which opened her borders for Austrian Jews, expelled by Nazis from Austia, despite Hitler's furious reactions and threats against Poland. During the occupation, the Polish underground state was the only in Europe that sentenced to death the people who collaborated with Germans and who handed over Jews to Nazis. Special Home Army firing squads immediately made the executions. Ask Mr Shevah Weiss, former Israeli ambassador to Poland before you say such slanderous accusations. Poles were treated exactly the same way as Jews during WW2 and were to be annihilated the same brutal way. Note the Jewish death toll is exactly the same as Polish! So, why the heck, do you say that Germans made death camps on the Polish land because of the "hostile attitude of Poles to Jews". Study Nazi documents, you moron! They made those camps in Poland because they had to murder the whole peoople of Poland, both Polish Jews and ethnic Poles. So, where the f., should they have built those camps? In Antarctica? In Polinesia? Next time think twice before you insult the Polish people again! A Polish Catholic, a younger brother of Jews in Faith God bless Israel, God bless their Promised Land!!!
25. to RP
Claudia ,   dublin   (09.11.06)
a lot of mistakes. Jews lived in Poland for 800 years,Poland welcomed refugees from every country in Europe,where they were expelled from. From Spain.German,France. May be this coegsistance was not fantastic,but they had their own schools,courts and administration,could pass through their lives not knowing Polish,and so they did,what occured a great problem during the second war ,and difficulties when somebody had to be hidden. 80% of all world Jews had chosen this as you say antisemitic country as their home,and called it Polin. They created there a real culture without any disturbance. Literature in jidish,religion centres around famous tzadics. Hitler chose Poland to build camps there,not because of Polish antisemitism,but because of majority of Jews were there, he didn't have to carry them to another place. Do you think ,your ancestors relatives were so stupid to live in a country ,to choose a country with the worse condition for their life? After the war Poland found itself in communist regime , the resistance movement fought ,there was a civil war,many people died,not only Jews,houndred thousand went to Gulag in Siberia,even people like Irena Sendler were opressed,as you see in the article.Shoking,because communist Jews ruled ,specially in Security Service. You are dissapointed,that Poles didnt help Jews ,didn't protest . How do you imagine this.? To arrange a demonstration at Gestapo Office? Don't you know,that the same number of christian Poles lost their lifes in occupation. Do you know,what the occupation is? Don't you know that in Europe only in Poland help for a Jews,even giving him a piece of bread was punished with death. Sit and think for a moment why?
26. To RP
Simon ,   Germany   (09.12.06)
You are wrong Sir, you are very much wrong. It is sad to see Jews like yourself or Mr. Gross who are bending the truth, spreading lies and anti-Polish propaganda on line or in books. As a historian and German I'm very much concerned with that. Thank you . Simon
27. Rebuttal
RP ,   Israel   (09.12.06)
To those talkbackers who have cited the flourishing, rich cultural life of Polish Jewry for some 8 centuries as proof that there was no anti-semitism, this is very foolish. As mentioned, this culture was separate from mainstream Polish culture. This was largely due to the anti-semitic environment in which they lived. This environment also provided the impetus for a introverted, distrustful element (one that I personally think is outdated nowadays and needs to be shaken off...but that's another story) in Jewish cultural understanding. And, why did Jews stay in such a hostile environment? They had nowhere else to go. And indeed, this was the driving force behind Zionism - we should have a place to call our own, where we call the shots and aren't at the whims of strangers. Please reread my talkback. I do not categorically dismiss all Poles as anti-semitic, nor as terrible Jew haters. Far from it. I also made mention of righteous gentiles (a term refering to non-Jews who came to the defense of Jews for no personal benefit, for those of you who may not have understood) But this does not justify ignoring the anti-semitism that does/did exist. History is rarely black and white, and thus I am not positing any absolute answers. Similarly, I did not claim that the Polish penchant for anti-semitism was the only reason for building the death camps in Poland, but rather as an additional thought to ponder. Lastly, I find it deeply insensitive and insulting to equate the genocidal slaughter of the Jews and the Jewish experience in the Holocaust with the suffering, albeit immense, of the Poles. They quite simply are not on the same plane, and to suggest otherwise is to disrespect the enormity of the atrocities carried out against the Jews.
28. once more ,but last time to RP
claudia ,   dublin   (09.12.06)
and only about onet hing ,because with full respect , stupidity of comparing weight of blood and tears is above any discuss. I'm sure,that first time your declaration about the reason of placing camps just in Poland was clear.Hitler chose it for antisemitism of Poles. Now you wrote,that was one of the reasons. Never mind. If I were Hitler and used your criteria ,i would chose another place, just in Germany. Comparing situation in these two countries ,in his own country he would find much more willing cooperants. In German,not in Poland Kristalnacht took place, there were the tradition of first concentracion lagers,Jews lost property ,houses,factories . There was not even war. Jews were made leave country , some of them packed into a cargo train and pushed by the polish border. Such events in Poland didn't take place.Before the war it was impossible, German society never protested,did what their Furer ordered them.
29. to RP
Nath ,   Montreal, Canada   (09.12.06)
As I already said, I'm not pretending there wasn't or isn't anti-semitism in Poland. But one has to put things in perspective. In the Middle-Ages anti-semitism wasn't "Polish" "German" or "French" - it was simply a feature of European culture (unfortunately). Jewish life thrived in Poland because it was relatively better than the neigbours and I think the country should get credit for that. You can't judge those times by today's standards. As for the camps...please. If you find German documents confirming that the Nazi established their camps in Poland because of Polish anti-semitism then we will talk. Otherwise it's just a gratuitous and irritating accusation. There are enough real and documented issues to solve without the need to bring such hypotheticals to the discussion. I appreciate your awareness of the Polish fate in WWII though.
30. Hello, Germany invaded Poland.
Johnson ,   USA   (09.12.06)
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