Jewish Scene
Poll: Rabbis believe Internet hurts religion
Neta Sela
Published: 26.09.06, 00:05
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31 Talkbacks for this article
1. Who cares? Blah Blah and Blah.......
(09.26.06)
2. Actually #1 right.. , & who cares? , lol
(09.26.06)
3. moshiac
sara ,   usa   (09.26.06)
i like the moshiach flag :)
4. Internet?
Shneur ,   Jacksonville Florida   (09.26.06)
I don't understand whi a chabadnik is dipicted in the above picture, chabad is the first "Chareidi" or orthodox group to use the internet as a channel for teaching torah Etc....The Rebbe is the biggest fan of using technology for Kedusha
5. Loosing power
Josh   (09.26.06)
The Internet allows people to find information quickly and efficiently, thus removing the middleman. You don't need someone to get it for you, not across the sea, not to heaven, but it is very near. The Internet will show people what the religious bodies don't want people to know. That they don't really need a go-between. It will give power to prophetic voices originally silenced by big establishments and power hungry men.
6.  Chareidi rabbis and internet crime.
Naomi   (09.26.06)
Chareidi rabbis both in the U.S.A. and U.K are taking the advice of international experts in this shocking phenomena, that has reached frightening statistics in all societies. To the 'who cares' crowd of yobbos- ditto, dear morons.
7. #4
(09.26.06)
Chabad's website is educational, inspiring and entertaining. Would that we could say that about all websites which are mostly, not educational, non inspiring and certainly not entertaining. In fact change entertaining to pathetic, and you're right on the mark.
8. IS JUDAISM A RELIGION?
al mann ,   Jerusalem, Israel   (09.26.06)
I would like to ask the writer of this column and all the rabbis where does it say or where is it written that Judaism is a religion? Where in Judaic sources is the word religion used? Many times it is written concerning the laws and chukim that their observation plus the acceptance of G-d as the King would make us into a nation. The word "religion" was foisted upon us by others who didn't want us to have a land. They thought that religion doesn't mean having a land of one's own. One can be religious anywhere in the world. Some of us see the Torah, in all its aspects, as a "constitution" of the people living in their own land while observing all the laws necessary to be a citizen of the people and of the land in which we live. Many people do not follow the "constitution' because they are influenced or allow themselves to be influenced by other societies and cultures using the media as the medium. Although freedom of speech might be a sacred right, there is also a freedom of choice in what one wants to read or watch. I suggest that people begin using their rights to not be seduced into going in the wrong path which brings nothing but immorality, stealing, and murder.
9. Hurts Religion? Or Superstition!
Paqid 16 Netzarim ,   Ra'anana, Israel   (09.26.06)
Although widely abused and defrauded, religion is an intellectual study: research attempting to identify and relate to the Creator of our universe. Religion, therefore, can only be valid when it is logical, scientific and compatible with historical documentation. When the media publishes scientific facts and historical documentation that exposes medieval superstition and assumed historical misconceptions, it hurts superstition and some rabbis -- as well as exposing the flawed logic of evangelists and imams. This helps, not hurts, religion. When the media suppresses those who advocate scientific facts and historical documentation relative to religion, preventing exposure of medieval superstition and assumed historical misconceptions - as the Jerusalem Post has blacklisted me for years - it protects and supports medieval superstition and Europeanolatry at the expense of intellectual honesty, professional journalism and scientific and historical integrity. Paqid Yirmeyahu Israeli Orthodox Jew Advancing Logic as Halakhic Authority Welcoming non-Jews www.netzarim.co.il
10. 8 and 9
Israel   (09.26.06)
I envy you seeing the word internet and being able to turn it into alofty exchange of philosophical ideas just because the world religion was also thrown in. To most of us with two feet on the ground, and who havent the inclination to hold forth as you two do,internet with the word religion means fighting internet crime, which has hit religious circles in demonic numbers. Maybe try to help, but without too much mussar and philosophising. It's the worst killer of young minds and bodies know to mankind. And they are out there closing in on your children and ours. Leave the mussar droshos for a more suitable time, thanks.
11. Threat to religious is internal, not external (#10, Israel)
Paqid 16 Netzarim ,   Ra'anana, Israel   (09.26.06)
The ideas on the internet range from obscene to blatant fraud, at the one extreme, to the lofty at the other end of the spectrum. Evaluation and acceptance or rejection of those ideas belongs with the individual, not dictated by any group or leader. It's up to parents and rabbis to prepare youth with logically compelling answers to life's important questions that will compete favorably in the world market of ideas. This has been, and continues to be, the failure. What has hit religious circles in demonic numbers is the confrontation of their youth with the reality that they haven't received meaningful and logically compelling answers to life's important questions. While Torah has the only, overwhelmingly compelling, answers, the long experience of overwhelming assimilation demonstrates that those supposedly teaching Torah, both parents and rabbis, haven't communicated them to our youth and, in almost every case, doesn't know the answers. The worst alienator -- not killer -- of young minds is substituting rote regurgitation of medieval quotations and ritual that is detailed ad nauseum. Their mind is fine, the answers they have been given are a combination of superstition, medievalism and, in most cases, Europeanolatry. That closes in on your children from within, not from without. Paqid Yirmeyahu Israeli Orthodox Jew Advancing Logic as Halakhic Authority Welcoming non-Jews www.netzarim.co.il
12.  11.It is indeed extremely external
.com   (09.26.06)
and alive and kicking in Ranaana, and in every kind of home. Fortunately the Rabbonim are now admitting that this situation is life threatening and ripping families apart. You though, just carry on preaching, with your blinkers on, oblivious of the tzunami, that isn't even approaching, it's already here!
13. Blameshifting Ensures Continued Assimilation (#12, .com)
Paqid 16 Netzarim ,   Ra'anana, Israel   (09.26.06)
Torah is more logically compelling than displacement, or any other, false religion. For those who know Torah, it is a simple matter to demonstrate the superiority of Torah to any you perceive to be a "threat." A "threat" to Torah is an impossibility. Therefore, if there is ANY external factor that you perceive to be a threat to your religion, your perception of a threat PROVES your own alienation from Torah. Why do you think that's so hard for your children to figure out? It's Jewish ignorance, superstition, medievalism and Europeanolatry, displacing Torah, that is the threat. The answer is education, logic, science and Torah; the opposite of ghettoization and suppressing information. Religious youth learn the rituals but are abysmally prepared to discuss when they go out in the world. That's the parents' fault and the rabbis' fault. Instead of blameshifting, remaining in denial, you need to acknowledge the problem and get started fixing it; or the cancer of ignorance of "WHY Torah?" will continue to alienate your children. Paqid Yirmeyahu Israeli Orthodox Jew Advancing Logic as Halakhic Authority Welcoming non-Jews www.netzarim.co.il
14. BULL!
Menachem ,   T-A,IL   (09.26.06)
This is utter nonsense. If it weren't for the internet, I can assure you I wouldn't be as observant as I am today. It was only because of the internet that I became more observant. FOOLISHNESS abounds with our rabbis sometimes.
15. 13
.com.il   (09.26.06)
Hullo! Your house is on fire, hullo hullo..singing in the rain wont put it out, nor trying so hard to appear holier than everyone else. The only one hearing you is you. Not only blind, but deaf too, ah well...At least we tried.
16. to (5) and (9)
Marcel Abel ,   (France)   (09.26.06)
1) Josh "It will give power to prophetic voices originally silenced by big establishments and power hungry men". I could not have said it better... I know One who was " silenced" by rabbinical establishment and the Roman prefect of Judea. 2) Paqid "Religion, therefore, can only be valid when it is logical, scientific and compatible with historical documentation". - scientific religion (sic) like scientology in France which has been banned as such after endoctrinating and alienating most fragile people. A dreadful nightmare have lived those who could be pulled out of it ! - what if historical facts - as far as religion is concerned - have not been proved trustworthy ? What is the truth asked Pilate without waiting for Jesus' answer as if he had feared the very answer Jesus would make. ---- Internet is a convenient tool, from bad to worse, even worst, through all nuances of good, sometimes excellent. But a mere tool in the hands of users. It is no substitude for a good education. Internet is no threat as such but some people misusing it (as free advertising among many "soft" examples). Happy new year to all and to Ynet's team. Special thoughts for those missing and their relatives.
17. 14 and 16
Jonah ,   Nineveh   (09.26.06)
Grown men seeking observance encouragement is not the case here at all. Homes are being wrecked and YOUNG lives and FAMILIES ruined. Parents use it as a babysitter, and have no idea what their children are doing, or who they are 'chatting' to. Thank Gd many Rabbanim are now facing up to this, and taking measures to deal with it, unlike those of you still walking with Alice in Wonderland. Internet is a lethal poison right in your kids rooms at home my friends, being used under your noses. Wake up, and actually 'be' parents.
18. #16 Marcel Abel
Josh   (09.26.06)
True to form, you use what I said to out of context to inject your furvor. First, although I am Jewish I converted and I understand what you are saying - it can be summed up as "CHRIST KILLERS" silenced Jesus. If I recall he spoke in the Temple and about Israel, so no he wasn't silenced by Rabbis. From what I gather from the new testament text, Christ killed himself, and allowed evil to win as he never spoke a word in defense at his trial thus recieving a death sentance. Nor did he try to convince Pilate to believe. Just because Pilate gave clemancy to one of the death sentence men doesn't mean that he had not convicted them both. In addition, as your belief goes, he was sacrafices. So which is it, did man pronounce a death sentance on a so called man-god king or did the father sacrafice his begotten son for the sins of the fallen Jews that did not do Torah thus counterdicting his sworn for all time laws? Why did he say "Father why have you forsaken me?" which makes me wonder about the sacrafice planning. You really should think about what your saying you believe about the Rabbis. You should also learn that context, like in the Garden of Eden is very important in reading comprehension. Know you foundations-Judaism I suggest you don't cut apart sentances to serve a skewed view of reality.
19. Good and bad
Y ,   Jerusalem   (09.26.06)
Why can't we acknowledge that somethign can be good AND bad? The Internet is one of the greatest and most powerful tools man has ever created, and one of the most dangerous threats to spirituality at the same time. The Internet is a great tool to learn, help others, and connect, but tons of people are also having their lives destroyed by pornography addictions and other dangers. www.tikunhabrit.com has a great rundown of Internet filters, which can help people surf with less risk.
20. Its all religious leaders
marilyn   (09.27.06)
Even within fundamentalist Christianity , religious Leaders are telling their flock not to be careful what they read on the internet, because they just might read something that would challenge their control over the people. But if they love truth they wouldn't be frightened of facing challenging ideas
21. here religion hurt the internet
layla ,   jerusalem   (09.27.06)
it is the rabi religion ,or it is any religion ..religion means believe and faith ..and no thing can hurt the believe nor the faith ,,butit is a good article to know how the others thinking ...but i do not like figures and this article full of figures ..statistics here tell nothing or little about the main thought
22. Josh conflicting with himself !
Marcel Abel ,   (France)   (09.27.06)
Your answer is again new evidenve of your having misunderstood, even more, Christianity. Once a Christian, then an ex-Christian before converting to Judaism, after rebuking Jesus and therefore becoming an apostate. You said NO to Jesus and I should convince you that you were right ? I have said YES to Jesus for over 50 years, that is my faith, and let the Lord have His word, not you. Followers of Jesus know very precisely why Jesus made no desperate efforts to defend himself : the Lamb of God had to die there on that day, in MY place and in YOURS, taking away the sin of the world through His sacrifice. « For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. » (John 3, 16-17). On the Day of Atonement, the sins of all children of Israel are being confessed on the head of a live goat, used as a scapegoat (from escape + goat), symbolically bearing their sins, was then sent into the wilderness to die with all sins laid on him. Where is your blood sacrifice, Josh ? Sorry, Rabbis, that I had to speak here of my faith as a Christian. Happy new year to all and to Ynet's team.
23. #19
.il   (09.27.06)
Children and families are what count . Not 'people' and 'spirituality' etc. They're just categories and words. Think and say FAMILIES, CHILDREN and then maybe we'll start the real necessary war against this killer.Off with the blinkers, categories,words and speeches.Its a 'good' tool too? Oh gee isn't that great, lets live in never never land, how 'nice' for you maybe, but not for families being wrecked. Awfully sorry, I can't be more 'spiritual' at the moment about this 'good' tool which, when used wisely...
24. The Tree of Knowledge
Kurt ,   San Diego   (09.27.06)
The Internet is the tree of knowledge of GOOD and EVIL. CHOOSE LIFE and use it for GOOD.
25. #24
(09.27.06)
I think they were ordered not to eat of your sweet little tree? They disobeyed and you have the first chat room...
26. #17
Menachem ,   T-A,IL   (09.27.06)
You wrote:Grown men seeking observance encouragement is not the case here at all. Homes are being wrecked and YOUNG lives and FAMILIES ruined. Parents use it as a babysitter, and have no idea what their children are doing, or who they are 'chatting' to. Thank Gd many Rabbanim are now facing up to this, and taking measures to deal with it, unlike those of you still walking with Alice in Wonderland. Internet is a lethal poison right in your kids rooms at home my friends, being used under your noses. Wake up, and actually 'be' parents. First off, you have no idea what goes on in my house, so how dare you accuse me of being a bad parent. Second, the adults in the house are the ONLY ones who use the internet OR the TV for that matter. third, the article headline is: Poll: Rabbis believe Internet hurts religion It doesn't say that Rabbis believe internet hurts children and families, but rather that it hurts religion, an issue which I addressed in my original posting. Stick to the topic and get your facts straight, you might have more friends if you do.
27. 26
Jonah ,   .com.il   (09.27.06)
The Saint. Aren't you the lucky one! Everything SO under your control ... change it to 'our' children, but not yours, 'our' kids rooms, but certainly never will be, your kids room(dream on) and its 'our' noses, not your holy one. Happier now? Kids who are banned from internet at home do have friends ya know and they do go to those friends, however much you don't like it, but you and yours are perfect, so why worry? Ho ho why worry...We and many friends (in Jerusalem) used to talk like you when they were little, and we too were 'in control' and we too knew it all. Title should have been... Internet hurts. I agree on that. Careful though, and Siyatah Dishmayah, Mr( so sure he's a) Policeman.
28. 27
Menachem ,   T-A, IL   (09.27.06)
You are making absolutely no sense at all. The ONLY thing you said that makes sense is that the title should have been Internet hurts. The rest of your posting sounded so much like the ramblings of a drunk, I'm surprised it even got onto the message boards. I never once said that everything was under control. I merely blasted you for calling people whom you don't even know bad parents. But, I'm sure the Jack Daniels is clouding your mind.
29. Freedom of press
Yves ,   Haifa   (09.27.06)
Sure they support it until the religious parties come to power. Then they'll control it until Disney's Bambi will be characterized as an immoral Mamzer (bastard) and all you'll see on TV will be religious people and rabi's giving lectures, not bad in proper measure, but not good when it will most certainly be overdone.
30. 28
Interested   (09.27.06)
Get your eyes tested. Who called you a bad parent?( certainly bugging you ) Went through all the posts, but can't find 'bad parent' . There'll be a few meetings soon for religious parents and educators, on the dangers of internet in the home (down, boy. Not your home, good parent) Don't attend. You're not welcome or wanted. Who is Yankel Daniel? Someone from your pub or websites you visit when the kiddies are tucked up in bed? End
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