Jewish Scene
Rabbis cry 'fowl' on ritual use of chickens
Neta Sela, Roi Mandel
Published: 28.09.06, 10:31
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1. Barbaric primitive culture
Sagi   (09.28.06)
Shia Muslims inflicting pain on themselves with chains and drawing blood. Christians "drinking" the blood of Christ. Aztecs sacrificing humans. Jews hurtling dead chickens around their head. All these practices are one and the same thing, an outcome of feeble twisted minds and a distorted conception of humanity. I have deep sympathy for these poor unfortunate beings, misled by their mentors and misguided by their own imprisonment. Religion, in all its concepts and manifestations is without doubt man's worst invention and causes nothing but self abasement.
2. vain attampt to get atonement
mike ,   israel (formerly usa   (09.28.06)
because they know that there is no true atonement without the shedding of blood. oh well, you gotta try to make written torah relevant. even if it goes against what it says.
3. swinging a chicken around your head
a kind jew ,   usa   (09.28.06)
and then killing it--you will pay in hell for such cruelty and paganism.
4. And the problem is? What's wrong with tradition?
(09.28.06)
A few years ago I was at a kapparot ritual in mea shearim and the hens and roosters were well looked after and appear to be calm. The article failed to mention that the chickens afterwards are cooked and eaten before the yom kippur fast.
5. Chicken soup
Josh   (09.28.06)
Who cares if they kill chickens. How often are animal rights fanatics vitim to acts of pure irony in accidents that seem to be dispatched by heaven. We eat just like those in nature. These chickens, would likely not exist and die of desease or shredded by a cat. Just save a few eggs so we can have more chickens tomorow. Now the question of sacraficing to create powerful magical protection at the same time we say sacraficing to God is no longer ok – well that just seems like God is being cut out of the loop. My opinion anyway.
6. Israel, Keep fighting chickens, it ok with you, same size !
(09.28.06)
7. Pro/Con regarding Kapparot
J K ,   NYC, USA   (09.28.06)
www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Judaism/kapparot.html
8. The bad part is the swinging not the killing
harissa ,   Israel   (09.28.06)
9. Then, let's everybody don't eat meat at all ,never more!
Keren ,   Sao Paulo   (09.28.06)
Why people dont complain about the industrialized process of killing cows and chicken? These are the cruelest processes,but ,instead ,people happily eat their rosted chicken or their cows barbicue. I think these animal defenders are sometimes ridiculous and driven by a fashionable and politicaly correct rhetoric.They, themselves ,rarely,have a deep understanding on what they are preaching and in how they actually act in their lives. About Kapara,I think it is an ancient custum,with mystical reasons ,and the chickens ,after the process, are killed in a Kosher manner,in which the animal doesn't suffer,and usually the chickens are given for Tzedacá,to be eaten, or are eaten for the owner him/herself ,the same way those who usually eat meat,will eat. I don't see a big deal,at least at my actual way of seeing this fact. The day all of us will not eat animals at all,I will ,probably, change my mind.
10. Time for the stupid anti-semites to celebrate
Ilan ,   Ariel   (09.28.06)
While I don't use a chicken for kaparot the custom can be defended. Certainly giving money to charity is no less a ritualistic attempt to expiate sin, unless one thinks there is something tangible in either sin or saintliness. Since the chilckens are slaughtered and eaten it is no more objectionable than going to the nearest restaurant and ordering schnitzel. Time for the antii-semites to give it a rest over a albeit odd, but relatively harmless practice.
11. Sagi !
Eli ,   Israel   (09.28.06)
Sagi we are Jews and will follow the Jewish way for as long as we exist! No matter how far you are away from Judaism you should at least show some form of respect for the religion of G-D!
12. Hang on!
Meir Moses   (09.28.06)
For all you religion bashers - read the article - many Rabbis and commentators CONDEMN the practice - so Judaism practically advocates its abolishment. The fact that custom dictates that this is still practiced is a separate matter associated with certain Orthodox streams - it is not a commandment! Most Jews - even many practicing ones - do not practice kapparot. For what its worth, I have also seen people handle the chickens gently and instead of swinging, hold & support the chicken and perform circular movements over the head. I for one have witnessed slaughter as a child and the lessons I learnt from it were educational in terms of pain, suffering and cruelty.
13. Kapparot chicken slaughtering
Rachel ,   Tel Aviv, Israel   (09.28.06)
This is a pagan ritual adopted from the Romans who used birds as "augers" to foresee the future and look what happened to them. This practice is totally unnecessary as we know what happens to those who abuse the less fortunate--including animals--when they die. This practice should be outlawed. It is disgusting to anyone who values the life of any animal.
14.  'slaughtering the helpless'
Palestinian   (09.28.06)
Stop first slaughtering the Palestinians then move on to the chickens
15. LEARN SOMETHING!!!
KACH 613 ,   MEDENAT YEHUDA!!!   (09.28.06)
DUMB PEOPLE! They are then given to the poor to be eaten they are not killd because we think it is fun to kill chickens!!!!
16. Give these kooks a bowl of chicken soup!
Avraham ,   Netivot   (09.28.06)
17. STOP IT!
Talula ,   Israel   (09.28.06)
'This ancient Jewish custom, which is meant to transfer divine punishment to the soul of a chicken' What the hell is this? Is that why they think they can act as they do all year round. Sure why not, there's always the poor chicken at Yom Kippur to take the brunt of all their corrupt and repulsive sins to clear their 'conscience-stricken' minds. This is a vile and abhorrent ritual - but again, typical practice from a community of people who behave as disgusting as they do all year round.
18. To Sagi #1
Ilan ,   Israel   (09.28.06)
Don't generalise and condemn all religion because of certain cruel and base customs. Some secular people get involved in drugs, rape and murder, but I would not condemn the whole of western secular culture because of these distortions.
19. Damn them all...
Jerry ,   Jerusalem   (09.28.06)
Damn them all for eating chickens. When is the barbaric custom of eating our fellow living creatures going to stop? Save all living creatures! Stop eating chickens, cows, lettuce and tomatoes.
20. Unjustified
Yoni ,   Israel   (09.28.06)
Since there is a perfect alternative ( money that will be given to charity) there is no justification for this cruel ritual. There is no reason not to eat meat ( kosher slaughtering is not more cruel than what is being done to animals by non-Jews in Europe or elsewhere ) but the chickens that are used for the kapparot are definitely ( though not intentionally, I suppose ) mistreated before they are slaughtered.
21. More anti Jewish rederick!
Daniel ,   Tel Aviv   (09.28.06)
Did you forget to mention that the chickens go to fead poor people!!!? Have you seen the conditions of the chickens in most slaughter factorys? Go pick on semeone else!
22. Complete Misrepresentation and Bullshit
malcolm   (09.28.06)
I have been to a few of these rituals and there is a huge misrepresentation in this article. Firstly, I personally do not enjoy watching animal slaughter. And I, like most people, eat chicken and meat. That said, all the chickens slaughtered at the ritual are done by a professional shochet (slaughterer). The ritual usually takes place at a local slaughterhouse. The chickens are not treated ant differently than any other chicken that we eat with the exception of rotating it over the head. There is no "swinging". The word implies the chicken is grabbed by the feet and flung around over the head. That, I can assure everyone, does not happen as the chicken would become way too excited and frighten the person as well and cause enormous unacceptable mayhem. So the chicken is held carefully and gently with two hands, slowly raised above the head and rotated. Afterwards the chicken is lowered and the slaughterer proceeds as usual. After the slaughter the chicken gets processed in the standard fashion (salt & water) like all the chicken everyone eats and the chicken is usually donated to the poor, so the chicken is consumed. The problem with this article is that it preys on people’s guilt over slaughter in general and tries to vilify it in the context of a ritual. Nothing could be further from the truth. If anyone reverse engineers their own food they would be disgusted almost every step of the way from incubation of eggs and cramped living conditions in coops to transporting and slaughter. The difference here is that the general public gets involved with the slaughter, and something, which usually takes place behind closed doors, is now in your face. So all this nauseating self-righteous indignation is nothing but sensationalism by the press and animal rights organizations. Hundreds pf millions of chickens are consumed and slaughtered each and every day on planet earth. And if everyone who ate meat or chicken witnessed how the tasty meats ended up on his or her plate they would probably be disgusted.
23. so chickens are for beauty??
meir ,   ny usa   (09.28.06)
why do we have chickens? do these opposers eat chicken, or do we have to follow their food rules? what do they know or feel about religion?? a reform rabbi so concerned, i bet he doesnt eat kosher chiken anyway, wringing the neck is good for him/her. gmar tov
24. Ending Ritual Killings of Animals
Jack Cohen ,   San Diego, USA   (09.28.06)
A better suggestion for these emotionally driven mob is try and invest their effort in bringing an end to the almost ritual slaughter of the innocent people in Darfour by the Sudanese government. If however, the so called "Rabbi" Kariv and the lunatics around him insist on protecting animals, a few good places to start with would be Spain, Mexico and all the Moslem countries. End the cruel killings of the helpless bulls at bullfights in Spain and Mexico and follow up with ending the wholesale ritual slaughter of camels and sheep on the Moslem feast of Eid-al-Adha. Animals' rights would indeed be better served in those instances.
25. Protestors
gabriela ben ari ,   jerusalem   (09.28.06)
These enlightened tel avivians know-everything-right have no mercy for jews being slaughtered in Sderot, buses and cafes
26. #1 FYI
Mary ,   Canada   (09.28.06)
For your info. The Aztecs have been an extinct culture for hundreds of years. We can thank the Spanish conquistedores for that, and by the way, I would bet they slaughtered a lot more humans than the Aztecs or any other central American culture ever did. Also, Protestant Christian churches do not believe in the Roman Catholic doctrine of transsubstantiation. The act of Holy Communion is in remembrance of the last supper and the representation of what Jesus died for.
27. And what is done with these chickens?
LDF ,   London, UK   (09.28.06)
Whilst I understand the "rights" groups, I cannot agree to this particular issue. The chickens are not just slaughtered and disposed of - they are used for food in the normal way - it's just that a brief ceremony is conducted prior to slaughter. As to cruelty - holding a chicken and moving it over someone's head may cause some stress (but so do many fun activities carried out by humans) but cannot be classified as cruelty. I suspect the real issue is one of shechita and their objection to this method as apposed to the many newer "humane" methods of ending the life of the animal/bird. Perhaps it would be in their interest to witness the modern methods in practice in the absence of inspectors or official observers - I think it would be an eye-opener: the word "humane" will certainly have to take on a new meaning. As many chickens are given to poor families, it would appear to me to be a wonderful way of entering Yom Kippur.
28. Forgot to mention that the Chickens are given to the poor
Eli Cohen ,   NY, NY   (09.28.06)
What anti-religious trashtalk! 1) These chickens would have been slaughtered the same way and sold. NOW they are being given to charity and used for a holy purpose. These chickens are typically donated to the poor. 2) The chicken DOES NOT atone for ones sins. The fact the one watches the chicken be slaughtered and contemplates that he deserved to take the place of that chicken helps put one in the proper mindset for atonement. True atonement comes though behavior deviation - when one changes their ways for the better. NOT by slaughtering a chicken.
29. RE: 8. The bad part is the swinging not the killing
Eli Cohen ,   NY, NY   (09.28.06)
If the chicken is being swung by the legs, the person is committing a sin. This is tzar baalie chayim - hurting a living creature. The chicken is supposed to be picked up from under the wings - painless - and gently revolved over ones head. If the person is violently swinging the chicken he is uneducated.
30. RE: 1. Barbaric primitive culture
Eli Cohen ,   NY, USA   (09.28.06)
Sagi - you obviously have some pent up hatred. Perhaps you should chill out on a beach with a nice cold beer and think happy thoughts. By the way, Jews don't HURTLE DEAD CHICKENS around their head. They gently swing live chickens around their head and then slaughter, clean, salt, clean again and EAT them.
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