Jewish Scene
Rabbis cry 'fowl' on ritual use of chickens
Neta Sela, Roi Mandel
Published: 28.09.06, 10:31
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31. FALSE ALARM!! HERE'S WHAT THEY DO WITH THE CHICKENS:
robert ,   potomac md   (09.28.06)
The slaughtered chickens are given to the poor FOR FOOD--this is what is done where I live. Those who are screaming about Kaparah are against ANY slaughter of ANY animal. I personally do not do Kaparar with a chicken because I do not relish the idea of having a chicken waved around my head while it defecates on me. Of course, having someone defecte on you is probably a fairly effective way of suffring fo our sins, isn't it? Whether the Romans did it or whether it is pagan in origin is irrelevlant. Most things in Judasim are pagan in origin--but Judaism refines them toward an ethical purpose--as is the case here, despite its ridiculousness.
32. Anti-semitism, once again
Lee ,   New York   (09.28.06)
Once again, YNet chooses to feature a lop-sided 'article' wherein a reform rabbi, surprise surprise, criticizes a centuries-old custom revered by traditional Jews. While there was a debate in Jewish law as to the propriety of such acts, it is clear to everyone that this act is NOT by any means a transfer of sins but rather a SYMBOL of what the person should face for grievous sins. The chicken, who was destined for slaughter anyway, becomes a meal for the poor, additional money is donated for the poor, and any harm to the chicken while alive may very well render it unkosher. Supposedly 'Enlightened' Jews who would hesitate tremendously to criticize customs of all sorts of other people have no trouble putting down their fellow Jews. Again, what a surprise.
33. 15 and 21
Talula ,   Israel   (09.28.06)
So, not only are they poor, they have to eat a chicken that has been swung around in the air, has had 'all divine punisment transfered into their soul' before being killed, and then fed to the poor? Yep! poor people indeed. That's very degrading for any poor family.
34. Forget Reform Lehavdil "Rabbis": MANY Gedolim Opposed It
Yishai Kohen ,   YeShA, Israel   (09.28.06)
The Ramban, a rishon, described it as "derkei Emori"; basically, emanating from idol worshippers. The Rashba opposed it, and the author of the Shulchan Aruch itself, Rav Yosef Karo, also did (according to the Mishna Brura, for the same reason as the Ramban did). In short, Kapparot is not an animal rights/Reform vs. Orthodox issue: It's a machloket rishonim, with some very strong opposition from some very important rabbis- real rabbis.
35. THAT WAS GOOD
KACH 613 ,   MEDENAT YEHUDA!!   (09.28.06)
Grate Shinitzel sandwich I just hade in a Jerusalem resterant!!
36. Kaporot
Shalom ,   Miami USA   (09.28.06)
It figures that a member of the reform community calling himself rabbi would rant against the use of chickens. These birds are slaughtered in a kosher manner and given to those in need for a decent meal. Before you condemn what you know nothing about, try to learn somethingabout the topic.
37. paganism
augustine e johnson ,   birmingham alabama ,   (09.28.06)
i agree - it is paganism --- especially when one was sacrificed 2000 years ago for the sins of israel ie yeshua -- as john the baptist said -- he is the lamb of G-d who takes away the world's sins ======== augustine , usa
38. # 33
Keren ,   Sao Paulo   (09.28.06)
I am amazed about the ignorance of certain Jews,living in Israel,on Jewish rituals and meanings: When the blood of the animal is drained,the soul has gone with it.That's why poor and rich can eat the animal without fear .
39. Kapparot
Karen Davis ,   Machipongo, Virginia   (09.28.06)
Thank you for "Rabbis cry 'fowl' on ritual use of chickens" by Neta Sela and Roi Mandel (9/28/06). Rabbi Gilad Kariv's comment that "slaughtering chickens is an unfit custom" of atonement is right. The mercy ascribed to God by those who seek God's mercy for themselves is withheld from the chickens in Kapparot. The ritual therefore compounds the sin instead of purifying the sinner. A merciless act can never bring absolution or peace to the soul. Thank you. Karen Davis, PhD, President United Poultry Concerns 12325 Seaside Rd, PO Box 150 Machipongo, VA 23405 Phone: 757-678-7875 Karen@upc-online.org www.upc-online.org
40. I suppose they'll be outside the KFC next!
Israeli   (09.28.06)
41. Paganism and John from Birmingham
Dani ,   Tel Aviv   (09.28.06)
Paganism is worshipping a man and calling him a god. As to the lamb, that is clearly the nation of Israel.
42. Video on Kaporet, not gross
Adam ,   Sharon, MA   (09.28.06)
I happened across this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=df4kr7jj8sc&search=Storahtelling%27s%20Yom%20Kippur%20RituaLab Personally, I think that it is better to do kaporet with money, especially if the chickens are mistreated ahead of time as the article alledges. Gmar v'chatima tova
43. pre-Yom Kippur chicken slaughter
Lisa Qualls ,   Reston, VA   (09.29.06)
I am so glad to see this thorough report about the ritual chicken slaughter. I think that sometimes rituals can be so old it is hard to remember exactly how they got started. One thing is for sure, as merciful as God is in his Dominion over us it is not possible that he would favor this merciless act in His name. I believe it is an insult to Him, and anyone who takes part in it is adding sin to themselves, not removing it.
44. kaparot
eiran ,   brazil   (09.29.06)
It's pretty important to remember,the chikens after the ritual,goes to tsedaká.
45. Reform Movement reveals its Chicken Lover agenda
Drumstick Lover ,   Perth, Australia   (09.29.06)
Chicken waving is a harmless Ashkenazi tradition, unless you are concerned about the dignity of the chicken. Perhaps you should take your chicken to visit a battery farm, if you and the chicken wish to witness some actual cruelty. Obviously the Tanakh and the Talmud both decry pointless cruelty, so do not wave your chickens too vigorously my friends. The important thing is not the ritual, but the act of repentance. Rambam clearly saw that the ritual itself is just heathen mumbo jumbo. In any case, there are plenty of worse things that you can do with a chicken. I’m sure that the groovy cats of New Age Judaism will demonstrate them all for us eventually.
46. concern for animals vs. Kosher
Netanya Nathan ,   United States   (09.29.06)
The realization to these rabbis of the pain suffered by animals in this case (ritual slaughter of chickens) is heartening, but what about the years of torturous suffering endured by animals produced in the horrendous unnatural confines of industrialized factory farming long before slaughter - Kosher or not. Most animals destined for Kosher slaughter are raised in the most hideous manner, alienated from all of nature, with no touch of human compassion throughout their short tragic lives. The use of steroid growth hormones, antibiotics is widespread in the giant corporations who exploit the animals for profit - delivering them to Kosher slaughter houses. Where is the compassion for the plight of an animal who can neither speak or choose. If its been 3,000 years,since the commandment was given, Tzar Baleim Chayim, then it seems that it is time for us to practice it NOW. Thank you for bringing this subject to the public.
47. More anti-religious drivel
Michael U ,   SF,CA   (09.29.06)
The bias in this article is immense. I have never done this ritual with a chicken, but I fully understand the meaning and the purpose. I am an animal lover, who cares for six cats. Occasionally my cats catch birds and kill them. Once dead my cats will leave them on my backyard patio. My point is this, in nature some creatures are killed to sustain the higher level creatures. We eat meat which has eaten plants which get nurished from sun and water. It is a hierachy on life, from the simplest to the most complex. I say a blessing on my meals because I thank Hashem for the kindness he has shown me, by putting food on my table. I fully understand that if the world was operated by divine justice we would all be dead. I think a Jew has the right to determine how he engages in this ritual. I bet we will see the same article again next year, what do you want to bet....
48. Swinging Chicken
DELPHIBEAR   (09.29.06)
Wow. That's a very strange activity.
49. kapporot a symbol?
David ,   United States   (09.29.06)
by kapporot its says," ZEH KAPPOROSI", do u skip that?
50. NOT ONLY IT IS PAGANISM.....IT IS WICHTCRAFT
DEBORAH ,   TEL AVIV- ISRAEL   (09.30.06)
Poor ignorant people... They don't know what are they doing! When they accept the TRUE , then, they will no need that PAGAN PRACTICE..
51. Deborah # 50
Keren ,   Sao Paulo   (09.30.06)
Tell us the "TRUE" then... Please.I am eager to listen your wisest words about it !
52. To Keren #51
Kurt ,   San Diego CA   (10.01.06)
When Moses lead the Israelites, the sacrifices to G-d where in the form of animals, grain, oil...etc. No one ever killed an animal to transfer their guilt into. They killed animals because HaShem specifically told them to do it. At the risk of sounding sarcastic: I missed the verse where G-d said to Moses "Tell the children of Israel to transfer their guilt into a chicken and I will allow them to escape their fate for another year"....know it sounds silly, but I missed that verse. Shema Israel, Adonai Eloheinu Adonai Ehad !!!
53. 52# you've missed quiet a more few things too! sorry
become religios ,   then talk about it   (10.01.06)
you are quite ignorant too
54. TO #1
Rama,Yonatan,Moren ,   N.Y   (10.02.06)
You said that all religions are primitive,but I say to you that your religion is modern, to kill human being and go Haven. mohamed, your lord tell you to kill is to be modern.
55. #50, not Witchcraft, Vodun
The Golem ,   Los Angeles   (10.03.06)
The Kapparot ritual seems more appropriate to Voodoo than to Judaism. It is undoubtedly powerful, but I think, wrong, according to our moral sense. I'd like to see someone who is learned in both halakha and Anthropology do a study of its origins, psychological meaning, and possible replacements for it. And then, armed with this research I'd liker to begin approaching pokim and asking if the minhag can be voided for contradicting more basic Torah values.
56. 38
Talula ,   Israel   (10.04.06)
Not sure what school of life you went to, but the one I attended taught me it's wrong to abuse any animal, namely swinging one around your head. It's sick and disgusting, maybe it's considered OK to do that in Brazil.
57. ~ Kudos to Neta Sela and Roi Mandel ~
Rina Deych ,   Brooklyn, NY, USA   (10.05.06)
Thank you to Sela and Mandel for bringing up this very necessary (and long overdue) discussion of the barbaric treatment and killing of chickens for Kapparot. As Professor Richard Schwartz points out in his very eloquent and well-researched article "THE CUSTOM OF KAPPAROT IN THE JEWISH TRADITION" (which can be viewed, along with my opinion piece, at rrrina.com/kaporot.htm), Kapparot is not mentioned in the Torah or the Talmud. Also, if we could truly rid ourselves of sin by slicing open an animal, what would be the purpose of Yom Kippur? Besides the questionable appropriateness of the practice itself, as the article points out, the chickens, even prior to slaughter, are treated miserably. Also, to add insult to injury, very year there are articles in the various papers about how crates of chicken are found abandoned, starving to death. Last year, in Williamsburg, Brooklyn, such crates were found with starving chickens poking each others' eyes out. This is the epitome of neglect and, certainly, a far cry from our protective laws for animals in the Torah. I am overjoyed to hear that more rabbis are questioning this barbaric, archaic practice. It's about time.
58. silly rituals i will not defend
(10.12.08)
these rituals have to go. this is beginning to annoy me and maybe my support for all things jewish will just go down the tubes as your silly ass.
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