1. Nice idea
Now all we need is a government to carry out this plan and yalla!
| Concerned Israeli |
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(10.16.06) |
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2. Where to begin...
Whatever happened to military campaigns with concrete goals that are achievable and actually make sense, like "take that hill" or "destroy those tanks"? The last time Israel fought a war like that was 1973. Ever since then you've been attempting to "send a message," "sear their consciousness," "show them we aren't a spider web," etc. etc. It's always the same problem; you do some action intended to send one message but your opponents, and the world, read it totally differently.
The Vietnam war was full of such message sending by us; this bombing campaign will show them that we won't give up, that operation will win their hearts and minds, this other thing will show them they shouldn't support the enemy, etc. etc. They never got the message we wanted to send, because our actions sent their own messages. We would drop napalm and think "this sends a message that they shouldn't fight us," but the napalm would kill a bunch of civilians, sending the message that we were cruel and should be fought even more. We were so appalingly naive for ever believing otherwise. But then again, the messages weren't really meant for the enemy; they were meant for us; a bunch of politicians trying to convince themselves, and the American people, that we were winning. The same thing's happening in Iraq now.
And, the exact same thing is happening in Israel. Did any of you really think that, if a Lebanese civilian was attacked by Israeli missiles, Israeli cluster bombs, and Israeli soldiers, he would see things Israel's way? He would get mad at his own government and not you? of course he wouldn't think that. But the government wanted YOU to think that. The end result was a complete fiasco, and you were left screaming red-faced that you won, not them, just like a kid in an embarassing playground fight.
If you launch more wars that are based on nebulous nonsense like "consciousness searing" or some other image-based crap, you'll only get yourself in trouble. Stick to wars you can win, wars with goals that actually make sense and can be achieved.
| George W , |
Chicago IL |
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(10.17.06) |
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3. And what on earth is the author talking about?
"The strong are admired in the Middle East, whether it is Ahmadinejad, Saddam, or on the other end of the scale, Ariel Sharon who was perceived as belligerent."
Let's start here; this statement has two problems. First, Israel has been the strongest country in the Middle East for at least 40 years, and you can see how much admiration that's got you. Second, this insistence that Arabs only understand force, sort of like dogs that you have to beat on in order to train, is not only profoundly racist but lies at the root of many of your current troubles. By chronically underestimating Arabs, you take an entire raft of options for peace off the table. Force is the only option left, and it has definitively not led to peace.
"Demonstrating power in Gaza is perceived in the region as a powerful deterrent, but is widely criticized worldwide. The images of Lebanese casualties were perceived as powerful and deterrent acts in the Middle East, but sparked harsh criticism globally."
Really? What deterrence, pray tell, did forty years of demonstrating power in Gaza get you? And how much of a deterrant was the Lebanon war? You've got Hezbollah as strong as ever, other countries contemplating war for the first time in decades, and the whole region even more enraged than before.
"Experience shows that demonstration of power is more durable in the Middle East's collective consciousness."
Moshe Ya'alon used to think like this, but even he finally wised up to the fact that 40 years of demonstrating power has only made your situation worse.
"Naturally, the best option is regional belligerence, while at the same time maintaining world sympathy towards Israel as in the Six Day War. This is somewhat difficult to achieve today but we can strive for such a situation. Israeli leadership must embark on military belligerent action by reason of an existential threat to its survival, a condition that existed during the initial phases of the second Lebanon war."
Here's your problem right here; how dumb do you think people are? You had world wide support during the six day war because you were facing a real existential threat. You were not facing such a threat in Lebanon, or in the territories during the course of the occupation. You might have called those situations existential threats, and used all your PR machinery to advance that point, but any literate high school student could see what nonsense that argument is. Likewise, the use of force, WHEN JUSTIFIED AND FOCUSED, does get support, even in the Middle East, just like the author says. If Hezbollah were to send it's ragtag army of untrained guerillas into Israel with the intent of taking over, they would be demolished so fast it wouldn't be funny, and absolutely no one would object. The same goes for Syria and anyone else. That deterrence is what the six-day war achieved; you showed that you can never be destroyed in a conventional military war. Combine that with your nukes and you are basically invincible.
But the occupation is a whole different ballgame. Qassam rockets and vest bombs are threats to individual Israelis, but by no stretch of the imagination can they be seen as threats to the existence of the state. Israel needs some perspective here; 9/11 was really bad, but there isn't an American anywhere who thinks al Qaeda could ever actually destroy the US. But Israel is so badly lacking perspective that you see an existential threat in kids throwing rocks, refugees wanting to return, Arab kids being born, etc. etc. Do you seriously think that you can continue to oppress Palestinians, and with a well-oiled PR machine you can get the rest of the world to think you are facing a threat to your very existence? Do you really want world sympathy? Then find a real existential threat and defeat it. We're smart enough to recognize it when it happens, and you won't need any PR at all to win our support. That applies to Arab countries just as much as to us.
| George W , |
Chicago IL |
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(10.17.06) |
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4. To George W in Chicago
Two snippets:
1) "Here's your problem right here; how dumb do you think people are?"
Actually, "dumb" is appropriate here when referring to perception. Before the Lebanon war this summer, there were no Israeli troops in Lebanon and the Lebanese economy was forging ahead. After the war, there were 30 thousand Israeli troops in Lebanon, 1000 Lebanese dead and billions in damage to the Lebanese economy that will need years to recover. There were no Hezbollah forces "liberating" any "occupied Palestinian territory" and Israel's economy barely felt a blip.
So yes, the perception that Hezbollah won a brilliant victory, or any victory, is just that - real dumb.
Your handicap, George, is that you see the situation from the news services and reporting available to you in Chicago, and not from the reality of being here in the Middle East.
2) "9/11 was really bad, but there isn't an American anywhere who thinks al Qaeda could ever actually destroy the US."
And why is that? Because if America lay back and didn't lift a finger al Qaeda certainly would do what they could to kill as many of you as possible. American military and political actions since 9/11 have kept al Qaeda on the run and in hiding. If America did nothing, the blood would be running in the streets of Chicago too.
Ergo, Israel also takes various military and political actions to protect itself.
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5. We're not dealing with a sane world
If Isreal and the US start acting in defense to what 'the world' thinks, we will both cease to exist.
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6. A similar article published in Guysen Israel news
The power of the weak
Eytan Ellenberg for Guysen Israel News
http://www.guysen.com/articles.php?sid=4846
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7. Guy Bechor for Prime Minister
| Sherry Goldwater , |
Ramat Gan |
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(10.17.06) |
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8. There's no paradox. Cutoff Aza's water: Castrate the PLOscum
| Dudu , |
Kfar Sava |
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(10.18.06) |
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9. Ah. The view of the ostrich.
Israel relies on the world's support, namely America, its biggest defender.
Alienate Americans and Israel stands alone in a world of rising anti-semitism.
Images that are percieved as cruel on the part of the Israeli's alienates Americans.
Muslims understand this - that's why they have doctored images for instance - one of the same woman mourning in the same position - photoshoped in front of two different bombings!
Israel shouldn't try and please anyone, but there are ways to gain Israeli's moral that do a lot less damage for support to their cause in the global community. If we close our eyes to the world around us, we alianate ourselves, and ostriches are easy prey.
| Laura Fishkin , |
Portland, USA |
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(10.25.06) |
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