Opinion  Soapbox
Stand up to Orthodox
Laura Goldman
Published: 09.11.06, 15:01
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94 Talkbacks for this article
31. New opinion of these israeli posters
Rob Elvidge ,   Los Angeles, CA   (11.09.06)
I cannot believe the replies to this article. Replace the words and feelings associated with homosexual with the words jew or israel and I feel like I am reading al-jazeera. They feel the same way. Why is she wrong for writing this article? Do not expect us to support you for being discriminated against when you are doing to same at home. I am not gay nor a muslim but I am appalled at the thoughts of these fanatics.
32. Of course not: Look at Gaza attacks on Sderot
Steve ,   USA   (11.09.06)
B"H Of course not: Look at Gaza attacks on Sderot. That is about not just curses but also actual missiles and damage. I think the tolerance is more towards the Arabs than the Jews. Quote: Would the Israeli public tolerate the same behavior from the Arabs as we have from the Orthodox of Bar Ilan Street? The answer is a resounding no.
33. Hey Loora
marya ,   sacramento, USA   (11.09.06)
Why don't you use the same verbal tactics on your neighbors who constantly call for the death of Jews? Who blow up buses and plant IEDS AND SHOOT AT PEOPLE DRIVING TO AND FROM WORK? Oh, no, they're REALLY dangerous -that's the difference. You and the rest of the appeasing left bow and scrape to the arabs: " Would you like more land? Here take the houses of these Jews, they've only lived here with the blessing of the government for 30 years." Now be nice, ya hear!
34. Tolerance
Bruce Sebree ,   Houston, USA   (11.09.06)
I couldn't agree more with this article. These ultra orthodox are nothing more than the Israeli Taliban. Don't let them take over your country and force their beliefs on the general population. -Bruce Sebree, Houston Texas and San Francisco, California USA
35. Not So Fast Laura
Adina Kutnicki ,   US   (11.09.06)
Laura, how very bizarre is your (il)logic. If you think the Rabbis should be arrested for incitement, what do you feel should happen to leftwingers who threaten ! to blow up bridges if Arabs are transferred? Many have done so in the past and continue to threaten as such. Also, what of the Arab MK's who agitate, visit the enemy in time of war, and who scream support for jihad from the Knesset podium? What about leftwingers who call IDF heads and regime heads murderers ! when they finally defend the nation? What say you dear Laurala?
36. Jewish self hatred-Goldman style
michael ,   miami,usa   (11.09.06)
let Goldman go back to her typical hatred of Jews who have pride in their Jewishness. She is good at it. We know that she views a believing Jew as more of a threat to her atheistic life-style than the Arabs that have sworn to commit genocide. She is not for gays, but simply against Judaism.
37. MR. SEATTLE
Bush ,   USA   (11.09.06)
Are you stupid! G-d has a lot of patience. It took 100 years until He brought the flood to see if they would change. It took some 50 yrs until sodom was uprooted and turned into what we have now the dead sea. But when they don't change His patience runs out and walla, No more Egypt Babylon, Greeks and Romans. What makes you say America is a safe haven. They started the marches in America no more than 20 yrs. '93 WTC bombing no change. 9-11 no change. Still marching in NYC. Seattle shooting. No change. Give it a little more time and then you will regret this stupid talkback
38. homosexuality is a lifestyle, not a persecuted minority
gene ,   livermore   (11.09.06)
39. Little things to think about
Menachem Ben Yakov ,   Jerusalem & NYC   (11.09.06)
There are those for whom the Torah is the ultimate arbiter of truth. For others the Torah does not matter. So I ask the following questions ... 1- Are the parents of homsexuals honored by their lifestyle? Do they relish the thought that they see with their own eyes the end of their line? The death of their anscestors dreams? 2- Do homosexuals have any resposibilty to the health of the nation? Are they unwilling to put aside their own agenda for the good of Am Yisroel? 3- Has modesty become a thing of no value? When every insect, fish and animal has sexual relations , what is their to be proud of? Why is it important to define yourself by your sex life ? Any parade with a sexual theme is inapropriate to most Jerusalemites. When a small militant group makes demands of society that the majority cannot support a backlash occurs. Homosexuals have lost the sympathy of many. Not the result they wanted Im sure.
40. A secular or a religious matter?
Ted Hewlett ,   Surrey, Canada   (11.09.06)
Could someone please enlighten me. Did the rabbis actually advocate and incite violence? That should be a criminal matter. Did they merely pronounce a curse. In that case they are calling on God to act, are they not. That would be a religious matter. The state should interfere with public calls to violence, but not with prayers to God.
41. Parades to 'normalize' sin
Alan Hoffman ,   Hulett, Wyoming, USA   (11.09.06)
If a person wants to reject G-d and His Law, then they should be allowed to. G-d does not force people to obey. If a person wishes to indulge is such abhorrent, go ahead. But STOP trying to force all people of Faith to accept it as 'normal'! G-d does NOT change His Mind about good and evil based on public opinion. G-d does NOT run a Democracy. He is the Law.
42. to fanatic believers
charles ,   petach tikva   (11.09.06)
Pray , pray , all day and night . it will help you as it helped to your grand parents during the Shoa . Those [ many of them at least ] were good Jews , following all the laws [ but not throwing stones ] and the result : SIX MILLION WERE MURDERED . Stop with telling hashem so , god wants , the thora said . Try first of all to behave as "menschen" not as beast , enough is enough
43. Inciting violence??
D Hirod ,   UK   (11.09.06)
Are you really trying to say that the hundreds of cops standing around listening to the Rabbis speeches (of course these sefardi cops all speak fluent Yiddish, remember) didn't arrest them on the spot? Is this credible. According to the pictures aired, two massive cops seem quite capable of arresting a fifteen year old boy, so why couldn't they go after an old rabbi? perhaps their Yiddish is not so good, or perhaps the rabbi didn't incite any violence! Perhaps its the author of this garbage article that is really inciting violence?
44. Pulsa DeNura
D Hirod ,   UK   (11.09.06)
Poor Ms Goldman appears quite put out about the pulsa denura. Does she believe really that Sharon collapsed as a result of the pulsa denura put on him? She doesnt believe in G-d; she doesn't believe in (Divine) retribution; she doesn't even have a moral code like the majority of the rest of the world - but she's scared of some mystical curse? Poor lady. She's more screwed up than her sick brother. On the contrary, a pulsa denura is the opposite of inciting to violence because it passes the duty on to the heavenly forces that can really make a difference. No believing person would try anything after that; he'd just sit back and wait for the real stuff to begin..... But for those who do not believe - what have they to fear? Carry on your lifestyle and see the results for yourself.
45. just a thought@yahoo.com
Shmuel ,   USA   (11.09.06)
Why a aprade?? for what??? is there a straight persons parade? making a parade only shows that they ARE different.... so, if you want to be accepted just like everyone else, why make the parade???
46. we are jews
(11.09.06)
this is a jewish country not the UK or France Germany or the US, SHAME ON YOU this is a holy land SHAME SHAME ON YOU ALL
47. suicidal
(11.09.06)
phillip stay in the us the orthodox will take over g-d willing and you can go to france or stay in the usa israel is a jewish country
48. WILL THAT PULSDINUR BE WITH FRIES OR NOT
ANOTHER BITCH DOWN   (11.09.06)
THEY BREED AND DIE LIKE FLIES
49. From a "Fanatic"
Michael U ,   SF,CA   (11.09.06)
I am amused at the namecalling from the gay agenda. Jsut because we are offended at thier lifestyle and we don't want their immoral filth paraded down the streets of the most holy city, somehow we are the bad guys. We didn't provoke this situation, we didn't decide to hold a religious procession through the streets of San Francisco. So, when we want to defend the sanctity of our holy city we become bad. No, I see it 180 degrees differently. I say that the GAYS are the bad guys, they are provoking the situation. There is absolutely no reason they NEED to parade in Jerusalem. No Reason except to piss of the majority of the population. This provocation may cause violence, not because Jews hate gays, but because gays are acting like Sodomites, acting immorally without any modesty. Sodom was destroyed not only because of sexual immorality, it was also destroyed for its lack of compassion for its inhabitants. Nobody cares what the sickos do in their own bedroom, and I would rather not even imagine the horrible things that go on in their minds... Like I don't care why a murderer murdered a person, they certainly have demons running around in their minds. These demons need psychological help, but they will deny this {a common practice of the yetzer hara}. Do we want to round up all the gays and make them wear identifying marks? Not at all... Do we want to protect the sanctity of the holy city... HECK YES! Please keep your filthy parade away from the righteous of Israel.... PLEASE!!!!!
50. not raising consciousness
Alan ,   Hulett, WY USA   (11.09.06)
These 'parades' aren't done to 'raise' consciousness. They are done to convince as many as possible to 'lower' the moral standards so that those who practice such sin will feel less guilty.
51. this article is a provocation
meir weinstein ,   toronto, canada   (11.09.06)
This gay parade is meant to insult the Jewish Torah. Let these gays pick on the Arabs and go to Mecca or march on the Temple Mount. They have double standards and beleive it is okay to defame Jews. The writing is on the wall, Israel is heading in the direction of being a more Jewish State. Thank Jewish demographics for that and all these gays can not hold up a candle to those that try to keep the Torah.
52. stand up to orthodox
zom ,   israel   (11.09.06)
minorities should not be persecuted, and the orthodox are a minority that is . they don't get the same benefits that the rest of the citizens of the state do, they are persecuted by the media, and by people like you, who show hate and no tolerance exept for those that are like yourself. That's not called democracy, rather self centeredness with freedom for MY wishes, and everyone else is a danger to society.
53. #17, Baruch - Who is more dangerous?
Jacob Engelmayer ,   Modiin, Israel   (11.09.06)
Is it dangerous to live in democracy and expect justice for someones actions? Or is it dangerous to throw a molotoff cocktail at a moving vehicle, throw stones at busses and trash a city (a holy one at that)? What happened to the age old value that you left out, "veahavta lareach hakamocha" (love your fellow man as your own self)? I guess too many people - from Boston to Jerusalem - don't love themselves very much.
54. Stand up
Louise Lipert Maery ,   Israel   (11.10.06)
Thank you Laura Goldman for standing up for freedom of speech and democracy. We need more people like you to speak out against those who would take away our fundamental rights.
55. PROOF that Pulsa Dinura is bunkum
(11.10.06)
Shimon Peres
56. I agree with charles (25); this experience has been valuable
sk ,   USA   (11.10.06)
What we have seen the past couple of weeks is how anti-religious Jews are made. I think the experience has been very valuable. I have seen the Haredi LEADERS (including Ovadia Yosef) organizing and energizing a violent campaign. Not to be outdone, Orange Israel leaders like Marzel demand bragging rights for their own contribution. Feiglin, ever the politician, will not say such rash things, but I expect he believes them. We are not talking about a few lunatics here. This has NOT been an exercise in counter-protest but an Arab-like terrorist campaign. I have much less respect for Judaism now than two weeks ago. I now consider Orthodoxy corrosive to modern life. I consider Orthodox Jewish reasoning (in general) laughably primitive. I consider the Haredim, over all, to be parasites and hooligans. American Christians have behaved as if they were actors in _Lord of the Flies_. In fact, I guess I would include the religious Israeli Jews as well in that. All of these changes in my thinking have occurred over the past two weeks. I am no more of a leftist than I was then. I just don't care very much about Israel anymore. Of course, I expect nothing from the secular Israeli leaders, so they have not dissappointed me. Rabbis who advocate and help organize violence are not exercising free speech; they are encouraging a crime. They are destroying the market place of ideas through terror. Leftists who advocate violence (typically against settlers) and help organize it are not exercising free speech either. The Arabs aren't even worth mentioning.
57. Laura this is for you.
marilyn   (11.10.06)
Interesting article, firstly i don't believe violence solves anything. Israel is unique as far as nations go, she has not been chosen to be a democracy, she has been chosen to be a witness to Gods holy Law and decrees. Which means she is in a situation where she is not going to find peace, until she enters into a covenant arrangement with Jehovah, just as when God bought Israel out of Egypt, only two of the original peoples made it in to the promised land, even Moses didn't make it.The first lot were laid low in the desert because they got up to have a 'good' time no thought for Gods way. Many fell also by fornication.The new covenant promises a new heart and mind, this is what your brother needs, because we are all born in sin because of Adam and Eve, sin is inheritable, which surprises a lot of people, we need to die and be born again, unless you can understand that, your doomed to futility.
58. Gay Parade in the Vatican
Dave Levi ,   Burbank. USA   (11.10.06)
I would suggest that the gay community hold their parades in the Vatican, or perhaps Cairo, or, Ridah, or Beirut..and closer to home, Ramallah or Jericho. I wonder how the "locals" would accept this type of demonstration against morality. Some claim being gay is normal, a born instinct, others, it is a perversion, self induced so to speak. At any rate, we have similar parades here in La La land, and no one protests, certainly not the Orthodox Jews nearby. However, if anyone threatened violence ot induced other to do same, me thinks the FBI would get involved. Rabbis who condone violence against gays, or against law enforcers, are themselves law-breakers. Prosecuting a few, might do wonders. Israel is trying to straddle the fence..in too many ways.
59. The Gay Agenda
Suzy ,   Los Angeles USA   (11.10.06)
I'm against any incitement for violence. I'm also very much against homosexual "pride parade." Homosexuality is a disorder. Something went wrong somewhere, and these people find sexual satisfaction in a way our bodies weren't designed for. The problem is also that sexual deviancy isn't the only homosexual trait - they have other behavioral traits which are less than desirable. The homosexual agenda has nothing to do with "rights" or "equality." They already have legal protection from discrimination in every aspect of life. They want the law to allow them to marry each other. They are also very hard at work with school programs which invite children to try homosexuality. This is out in the open here in the U.S. and it's coming to Israel - unless we stop them.
60. confusion
Zeb ,   USA   (11.10.06)
The logic behind these responses is confusing me. It is my understanding that Israel is a democratic nation. The strength of a democracy is that all groups get a voice, as long as they are not physically harming others. To me, it seems pretty objective to say that a gay pride march represents a minority group that wishes to have its voice heard. Without this right, there is little potential for change because the majority is the only group allowed to spread its ideas. Democracy does not assume that one group is inherently "right" and another "wrong." I'm not totally familiar with the system in Israel, but if Jerusalem is under religious law or regulation, then I have slightly less of a problem with the march being cancelled, although I would personally argue that Jewish beliefs are meant to support democratic-style civil discourse and allow for a variety of groups within the religion.
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