B"H Neither the Arab leadership nor the Jewish leadership can propose two states. The situation in Gaza has debounced the myth that this is a two-state scenario we are talking about. Hamas in theory has control of "its" territory, and what does it do? It lobbs missiles at Sderot. Why? Because there is no two state solution even in Gaza versus Sderot. Gaza is controlled by states outside of Israel who wish nothing short of a zero state solution. The Arab dialogue goes along the lines that there must be a celiphate, that is a state with absolute sovereighty over religion as well as civil affairs, a theocracy, where all other religions are submissive to the state religion. The secularists make that religion "secularism", but insist everyone else is submissive to it. But is it really about being faithful to the religion that matters to the secularist or even the celephate? No. It is just about being in power and rubbing the face of the opposition into the ground. Naturally, the celaphate becomes more the perception of the person at the head more than the actual religion. In short, being a good Arab becomes less important than being a good servant to the guy at the head who is perfect by definition in a celephate. But be it secularist or not, that is not a two state solution. It is a single state solution if it is administered locally. But in the case of Hamas, that power for the single state does not reside even in Israel, making it a zero state solution; rather the Arabs of the land pay tribute to a foreign nation. That foreign nation does not recognize the authority of those living in Israel. It is a tax of having to send Arab children on murder missions where they decimate their own bodies to start with, commanded by Hamas, Fatah, or sheer lack of self-love carefully directed by television and mosques to self-destruction. Ray, we are zero-state practicioners, not two-state practicioners. We are citizens of neither state, preferring to stay out of the mess altogether, leaving governance to someone else in that region. Two states is not on the plate, Ray. It is either zero states or one state. Since we live outside of Israel we would have to say we believe in the sovereignty of a different country rather than either regime over us. If we want to be honest about what we practice, it is a "zero-state" concept in terms of the right of that people to determine our future. So why would be promoting this as a "two-state" solution?

...and thanks for the book recommendation.

There are two states- Israel and Jordan

There is no magic solution here. 'Two States for 2 Peoples' is a nice formula which as the fortunes of both Israelis and Palestinians rise and fall, is rejected by one and espoused by the other. More Palestinians than I remember support 2for2 - more than during Oslo, more than at the height of Geneva, more than in the 2nd Intifada. The Peace Index shows more Israelis against negotiations and reflects the well- worn spin that there is no partner for peace - that word that is being erased from our vocabulary. Thing is that its not the Palestinians who are not partners for peace - its we Israelis. Is it because as each life is destroyed the Palestinians understand that they face a 'no state solution'? We are both squandering lives and hope with wreckless disregard for the future, but we Israel are doing the most damage. Is there not a shred of humility left in us? Or is it that we just don't do humility?

the white paper of 1939 restricting drastically jewish escape from nazi europe destroyed peace between arab and jew .

LOL..... I always laugh at these columns.. We just read info that says about 35 think that Qassams are doing positive things for the palestinian people... Let me guess Ray... the extremists you talk about in the territories are only 35 percent of the population... How laughable....

so called palestinians can claim roots.. This squatting in the west bank must end ...

happenning in the west bank.. Hamas is the so called elected representation in the territories... What does that say about the majority of palestinian opinion.. What are Hamas stated goals... ???? You must be a left leaning liberal.. living in lala land.. Too bad .....

http://www.ocnus.net/cgi-bin/exec/view.cgi?archive=95&num=24401 And for all your talk of 'Justice' and 'Fairness' - you can surely sell that almost anywhere else! WHY peace failed - It was NEVER the end goal! Even Fatah, the PLO and Hamas Charter's are SURELY clear enough on that point. >On March 31, 1977, the Dutch newspaper Trouw published an interview with PLO executive committee member Zahir Muhsein. Here's what he said: "The Palestinian people does not exist. The creation of a Palestinian state is only a means for continuing our struggle against the state of Israel for our Arab unity. In reality today there is no difference between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. Only for political and tactical reasons do we speak today about the existence of a 'Palestinian people', since Arab national interests demand that we posit the existence of a distinct "Palestinian people" to oppose Zionism." These kinds of 'Quotes' are everywhere. Since Politics seldom resembles the facts on the ground, your 'Opinion's piece's' place you in the camp where you are most comfortable - ~"The existence of a separate Palestinian identity is there only for tactical reasons. The establishment of a Palestinian state is a new expedient to continue the fight against Zionism and for Arab unity" - Zoheir Muhsin, head of the PLO Military Operations Department and member of the PLO Executive Council (1977) ~"On no accounts will the Palestinians accept part of Palestine and call it a Palestinian state, while forfeiting the remaining areas which are called the State of Israel." - Rafiq Najshah, PLO representative in Saudi Arabia (June 9, 1980) ~"The Struggle with the Zionist enemy is not a struggle about Israel's borders, but about Israel's existence. We will never agree to anything less than the return of all our land and the establishment of the independent state." - Bassam Abu Sharif, PLO spokesman (May 31, 1986) ~Samuel Huntington aptly termed “Islam’s bloody borders” around the globe—flow from the timeless logic of jihad. All of historical Palestine—modern Israel (within the 1949 armistice borders), Gaza, Judea, Samaria, and modern Jordan—whose pre-Islamic inhabitants—Jews, Samaritans, and Christians—were conquered by jihad in the fourth decade of the 7th century—is considered “fay territory”, a permanent part of the Dar al Islam, where Islamic Law must forever prevail. Israel, governed by a “usurper” infidel people, i.e., Jews, on such “fay territory”—no longer an appropriately oppressed dhimmi people living under the yoke of Islamic Law—must be destroyed in a collective jihad by the entire Muslim community. Qaradawi’s views—apparently shared by an overwhelming majority of contemporary Muslims who refuse to accept Israel’s legitimacy within any rump state borders—are in turn dependent upon a negationist, 'ahistorical' Muslim narrative which erases the pre-Islamic identity of the indigenous Jews, Samaritans, and Christians of 'historical Palestine' http://www.iranian.ws/iran_news/publish/article_17095.shtml#top >How Do I Know when I Have Encountered a Totalitarian Opinion? When it lacks clear empirical evidence to back it up!

Two states: one for Israelis, the other for Palestinians is the only answer. An alternative is a single state in which millions of Palestinians get the Israeli citizenship; I don't think that prospect appeals to too many of us but unless the first solution is assiduously worked on, a unitary state is exactly what we are going to end up with. The present situation cannot continue in perpetuity and it's only a matter of time before the Palestinians organize a peaceful million-man march on Jerusalem, which Israel would not be able to deal with. And notions such as (in)voluntary expulsion are a load of crap anyway so I won't even waste my time commenting them. Many of us had high hopes for Olmert in this respect but he has been an utter failure. Ignoring this problem won't make it go away as he seems to think.

2 people 2 states is the only viable solution. Particularly when groups like Hammas are experimenting with the Islamic State and Islamic World notion - there is no place for Jews in that world. Unfortunately we are very far from the 2 state solution today. Palestinians have chosen a political path that eliminates Israel, and Israelis who wanted to disengage unilaterally have failed miserably. If only Palestinians would think like Americans – life under Hammas has been awful and so a change is needed – but I don’t think a change is likely to happen soon. For now I expect more of the same and a lull in violence is good news. Keep on blogging Ray.

In spite of the fact that there are no palestinians, other than the fact that Palestine used to refer to Jews. The land of Israel, including Judea (where we get the name Jew) and Samaria is too small to divide into two States. The arabs already have 22 states, they dont need another. The arabs in Jew-dea and samaria must go to Syria, Jordan and Saudi land. It is a simple and humane approach.

You are all feeling so sorry for the palestinians that you are forgeting to feel sorry for the Jews. Don't we jews have a right to a strong state, a proud state, one in which we don't have to appease anyone. Don't we also have the right to defend and strengthen ourselves? Don't we have the right to leave in peace and to demolish all obstacles that stand in the way of it. For sixty years the Palestinian arabs have given us nothing but war and death and terrorism, I say enough. We have done enough good and borne enough evil to deserve to do a little evil and enjoy a little good. We have the right to implement a one Jewish state solution if it will bring us peace, and it will. Don't worry about the Palestinians: Those of them who want to live in peace (and unfortunately also those who don't) will be able to do so in any other Arab country where we won't bother them. But for us Jews there is no other state, no other choice. A two-state solution would be best for the Palestinians, and as long as we are not weakened by it we are bound to implement it too. But we are loosing lives, strength, time, and the very essence of who we are in this attempt to help a people that does not seem to want our help. We have done all we can for the Palestinians over the past 60 years; we have shown restraint, offered them peace, gritted our teeth as they killed our children in response: No more. There is only one more thing we can do for them, demand an immediate desbanding of all terrorist organizations and a binding peace treaty without preconditions, and in return we can leave them Gaza and whatever other land we can afford to give them (which unfortunatley is very little). If they refuse this final offer then we must expell them and ensure that our state remains safe. The other Arabs will take care of them, but no one will take care of us if we do not.

DONT SELL US YOUR GABAGE

To all those who say that the Palestinians already have a state, its Jordan....I say the Jews already have a state also, its called NY. They should all go there....the squating in Israel must end. Of course this argument is ridiculous; but then, so is saying that the Palestinian's already have a state and it is Jordan. The Palestinians living in the West Bank have just as much right to be there as any Jew; no less, and in some cases more.....and thats a fact.

good you aske for the paradise to the jews on the earth . iam asking for the paradise but i know it will be given by god , becouse of this i pay the price here on the earth . i will never kill never steel never lie . and after that i hope of paradise ,, but what the israil did to palastinians ,and lastly to lebanease , and how you will aske the help of the arab to live in your strong peacfull paradise on the land of palastin .. ray said about the solution of two state ,, and that one state is impossible ,, if that or this first and last we need justice in any form or dress ,, so stop putting the poison in the plate of hunny // palastinian have not justice in their land ,and this is the upperhande , this is the problem ,, and justice is the solution .. in any form ,,but as the justice is far away mm mmmm all what you write or read is nonsense

Ray, you obviously are a very educated man but you seem to lack the ability to tell the truth. You know as well as i do that the only reason the muslims have stolen Palastine from the jews ( yes, it was called a jewish Palastine pre Arafat, because jews have been the majority here for over 3000 years), is to destroy Israel. Dont play the victim to me Ray. Israel has done everything it can for peace and you know it. Why dont you use the option of them going back to where they came from, namely Egypt and Jordan, or i guess that isnt an option for someone like you that wants to see Israel destroyed. Looking at how small Israel is compared to the rest of the muslim controlled middle east should easily make all your comments void.

They want a Palestinian solution which speaks of wiping Israel completely off the map. The Palestinians who persist in demanding a 2 state solution are those who want to destroy Israel because it is a Jewish state. That is their declared aim. It's in the Hamas Charter. It is equally so with Islamic Jihad, Hezbollah and the rest. The 2 state idea cannot work because the Palestinians refuse to give up their claim to even one dunam of land anywhere in Israel, or to accept that Israel is here to stay.

Corrupt gov't and press in IL? Who would think?

Israel is one and the other, you know, is not Israel's job. If the Palestinian Arabs and/or Jordan really want it they can make it happen. Major part of making it happen is convincing Israel to accommodate enough of what the Arabs want. Another part is careful formulation of what they want.

It's that simple.

Two States Palestine and Jordan is What you say Palestinian Extremists say , so you sound Like them , Except that you enjoy living in their own Country . So it is not that simple , Where did you come from ? ( May be Ucraine ) .

I agree the one state solution with Israel is not realistic. But that depends on your definition of "one state solution". 1) There's another option: a confederation of the Arab population in the WB and Gaza with Jordan and Egypt. Two one state solutions. a) Yes, Jordan and Egypt don't want it, for the same reason Israelis don't want a single state, which is no reason to force it on Israel but not on J and E. b) it makes more sense that Arabs should be ruled by Arabs c) which is why the Arabs want a single state rather than a 2 state solution, because they can democratically vote out the Jewish state from existence in that scenario, and that's why Ali Abunimeh supports it. 2) No, the two state solution failed because it wasn't a good solution for either side. The Arabs don't want to be ruled by Jews, but at the same time they don't want Jews to rule Jews as well - they see Jews, especially non-Arab Jews in the Holy Land as usurpers and strangers. The Jews don't want to rule over Arabs and would rather redraw the boundary line so that both states can be populated by people who are ruled by their own people, seeing this as more likley to create a lasting peace. See the proper solution, above, 1(b) 3) Arafat's crowd was corrupt. Why would complaining about that be called "harping"? 4) the Palestinians had an effective leadership before 1967, and the forces that arose in 1964 (the PLO) that provided "leadership" were in fact in place since the early 1900's at least. They were represented by Arafat's relative, the Mufti of Jerusalem. There were peace-loving Palestinians as well, but they were threatened by the Mufti and his ilk, some left, the others kept quiet or were killed. If there was no peaceful leadership then, this was because those who wanted peace were marginalized. Further, the Palestinian movement was invented by the Arab League in 1949 to get rid of Israel. The Arab League represented the Palestinian interests since then, and DIDN'T WANT the Palestinians representing themselves. They decided when to fight, whether (or not) to make concessions, who was allowed to represent the Palestinians, etc. the "clinging to the belief" of a single state was not because Arabs were dreaming about a confederation with the Jews. It was because they wished to displace the Jews. Still is their dream, I think. I agree the burden's on the Palistinians. But nevertheless, hoping for a "solution based on justice and fairness" is simply a slogan for "justice and fairness" for Palestinians, but not Jews. Until the Palestinians understand how the Jews have also been victims of Arab "hardline policies" that are not less "futile" than they claim Israel's to be, there really is no hope.

Ynet refused the first posting . As if the jew are occupying others land. You don't get that Jews don't respect history. You don't get that mass-murdering , Homicidal Hamites were killing Jews when they controlled the land You don't get that 1400 years ago homicidal Hamites exiled themselves from the peninsula of their own name to spread their hate by the sword. You don't get that the land belongs to all Jews from Sarah ad infinitum. You hate those who love the land and are a symptomatic of the stokholm syndrome. You love those who come to kill you instead of expelling them, enforcing their right of return to their homicidal Hamite peninsular homeland of their own name. The IL goverment is corrupt since it commits pogroms against the Jews who are the victims and not the mass-murders left in their midst. The goverment had a leader, arelim sharon/schinerman, who with a sick maind and unbound heart expelled Jews from the land that would protects you and cotninue to have to pay mortgages and insurance on. This areliem disavowed his party's cgharter and referendu theat he swore to uphold. This arelim created another party and by coup took over your country. He and olmert were neirther elected to lead that party and sharon even instilled the party as a goverment without bering elected. You have a corrupt press and government that dont want you to realize this but only to hate those who love the land that protects you. Land that belongs to all Jerws and no one can be a broker fopr.

Where has Mr Hania been for the past 70 years? Every time the peaceful two-state solution has been on the table the Arabs said NO: 1937, 1947, 1967 and 2000. The conflict has never been about specific borders but about the Arab anti-Jewish racism against the existence of a Jewish state in the Arab-Moslem dominated Middle East..

How come that Israelis who for years were in favour of peace negotiations and compromises are negative today? I will give you a hint: constant and systematic Arab rejection of Israel's existence and Arab terror response to Israeli peace suggestions.Think before you write.

In my censored comment I also indicated that you who would be real estate brokers to the extortionists don't realize they don't keep agrements and you are speaking those who have no authority over the homicidal hamites anyway. There is no controlling those who come to kill you and they only want your complete extermination. piece by piece of paper out.