Jewish Scene
Conservative scholars ease gay rabbi ban
Associated Press
Published: 06.12.06, 22:34
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1. All the reform/conservative want is money
(12.06.06)
new "members" = more money The Maccabees Saw These Fools As Heretics And Removed Them. They Are Here Once More As The Neo Erev Rav. To convert or even to practice Judaism is to follow its laws, they intreprt these laws and are able to twist them to what they see fit since they dont believe we recieved them from Hashem but from man. Then if its from man, what makes it any better than what buddah or what jesus or what moehammed or what the mormons or any heretic says? Then why be Jewish, why not be a human being? You want a Holocaust, you are making a spiritual one your POSters
2. Video: On What It Means To Be Jewish
(12.06.06)
Here http://www.sodot.tv/Site/ProDetile.asp?id=315&CategoryID=1&SubID=74
3. Conservative=Gay
Avraham ,   NYC   (12.06.06)
4. no-name (1): All the orthodox (and ultras) want is money.
sk ,   USA   (12.07.06)
And THAT claim, unlike your own own, can be proven in Israel at least.
5. Remember that Haredism originated in the
sk ,   USA   (12.07.06)
shtetl, and received its reward in the Holocaust.
6. Avraham=Epsilon
sk ,   USA   (12.07.06)
7. SODOM ! DID THEY READ THE BIBLE ? SHAME ON THEM !
(12.06.06)
8. All Things to All People
Vicki ,   Jerusalem, Israel   (12.07.06)
The Conservative Movement is unfortunately sliding down that slippery slope of trying to be all things to all people and finding itself on both sides of an issue the result being it will stand for nothing. I for one am heartbroken over the takeover by firebreathing Liberals (liberal only if you agree with them of course) who are in the process of sealing the fate of the movement as one which has no principles which it holds inviolate. Instead there is room under the "umbrella" for all views, even though they may be diametrically opposed to one another. I wish we could take back the night.
9. To Sky: Baruch Hashem That you live in the US
(12.07.06)
Remember one thing, being a zionist isnt a replacement for being a Jew. Haredim means Hashem fearing Jew, it means to any Sephardic, Ashkenazi, Mizrahi, etc etc etc Jew who practices the Laws which we recieved from Mt. Sinai. So no it didnt "start" in the "shtetl" it started on Mt. Sinai when we recieved His Laws. PS: The one thing that did start in Europe but no where else was the reform movement. You think you can avoid it now, but wait until you meet your Maker in the Heavenly Court.
10. Conservative/Reform 'rabbis' talk more on Darfur than Israel
Sammy ,   Long Island, USA   (12.07.06)
Ask anyone
11. the opinion of the journalist is obvious
moshe ,   jerusalem, israel   (12.07.06)
the opinion of the writer of this article is obvious.
12. To no-name (9) who can't even get my nom de plume right.
sk ,   USA   (12.07.06)
"To Sky: Baruch Hashem That you live in the US." Believe me, I do. "Haredim means Hashem fearing Jew ..." This seems rather a Gentilized translation. My understanding is that a more accurate one would be "one who trembles before G-d." However, I do not speak Hebrew. "[Haredism] means to any Sephardic, Ashkenazi, Mizrahi, etc etc etc Jew who practices the Laws which we recieved from Mt. Sinai." No. What Jews received at Sinai was the Pentateuch, which, I should point out, did not suggest that Jews should wear clothing that would look fashionable in 17th Century Poland. So-called Modern Orthodox are probably a lot closer to original Judaism, although they, too, are probably not very close. "So no it didnt 'start' in the "shtetl" ... Um, well it probably did, although perhaps it's tough to say when something "starts." However, it's probably reasonable to say that Haredism and the Reform movement co-created each other. Much of the codification of Haredism was based on the efforts of Rabbi Moshe Sofer, born in Europe in the late 18th Century. That explains the odd garb and habits. I think it's reasonable to suggest that the shtetl nurtured Haredism even if Haredism did not originate there. I grant, though, that I am not expert on this topic. "You think you can avoid it now, but wait until you meet your Maker in the Heavenly Court." I'm not a "trembler." I expect my Maker not to wear a clown suit in Court.
13. To Sk
LEE ,   NY, USA   (12.07.06)
I think you missed #9's point. What she/he was trying to get through to you, with little success, is that to be Haredi does not mean to wear what you consider to be a "clown suit". To be Haredi means to fear G-d (to the point of trembling, thanks for that clarification). This is the reason, it seems, that she/he told you that it means the same thing for Sephardic, Ashkenazi, and Mizrachi. Do you know many Sephardic or Mizrachi that wear "clown suits"? (by the way, are you Versace yourself?)Nevertheless, they are still considered Haredim. I hope you're starting to understand the point because you seem to be bright (with some shades of darkness). Anyway, the LABEL "Haredi" that you're fixated on was, as you say, probably co-created with Reform Judaism. There was no label such as this prior because there weren't other formal movements to contrast a label with. The shtetl didn't nurture the G-d fearing Jew, he was there way before the shtetl. As she says, the Haredi was there from Mt. Sinai. Given that Chanukkah is upon us, I am prompted to point out to you that the Maccabees, were very Haredi (in the true sense of the word, not in the label you're used to). And, by the way, according to our age old tradition, not only was the Pentateuch given on Mt. Sinai and throughout the 40 years in the desert, but so was the Oral Law containing the teachings of the Kabbala which serve as the basis for much of the customary dress that you seem to hate with such fervor. I, myself, am not what you would consider Haredi, nor even Modern Orthodox, but even I can appreciate the dedication and loyalty of the Haredim. It is not my habit to forecast evil tidings on individuals, but your arrogance is astounding and if I were you (and thank Heaven I'm not) I would be very "Haredi" when I stand before the Creator. The "Haredi" Jew does his utmost to be a loyal servant to G-d. How do you think you will fair in His judgement when you maliciously attack His most loyal servants? Oh, how I wouldn't want to be you. But, fortunately for you, you still have time. I pray you'll start thinking differently, for your sake.
14. Good thing we took care of this...
Mush DeLeon ,   Brooklyn, New York   (12.07.06)
....under the looming threat of a pan-Shia thrust for dominance, an almost-nuclear Iran (HV'S), and an Israeli population that feels more and more ambivalent every day. Yea, gay rabbis was definitely the right call.
15. #5
dANA ,   NY   (12.07.06)
YES, THANKS TO THE COMPLICITY OF THE INDIFFERENT SECULAR AMERICAN JEWS
16. First step, great!
Dorothy Friend ,   Tel Aviv   (12.07.06)
17. See why Reform & Conservative have like 10 members in Israel
Amir Wasserman ,   Ramat Ilan   (12.07.06)
Abortion & Gay rights matter more to them than Israel does. That is why the few members they have left are all intermarried and show up for services perhaps once a year on the Holidays. That is also why they are not and will never be recognized by the vast majority of Israelis, since most of us know what authentic Judaism is like.
18. Awesome! Now they'll be able to intermarry Gay couples too
Samuel & Christopher ,   Fabulousville   (12.07.06)
19. "Conservatives" are not halachic
Antonio ,   Haifa   (12.07.06)
So it's not real Judaism. I have nothing against gays, but Judaism doesn't accept homosexuality, period. Read the Torah. So a gay "rabbi" is not a real rabbi, just like pretending to practice Judaism isn't the same as actually practicing it.
20. # 17
Renee, NY   (12.07.06)
I think you'll find the real reason why the vast majority of Israelis don't accept the Reform and Conservative movements is because this way they have a good excuse for being totally secular. It means they can rationalize their lack of any sort of religious influence in their lives by saying there's no alternative to Orthodoxy, and if the only option is for them to be either secular or Orthodox, they're not going to become Orthodox. This situation provides them with an excuse to feel quite self-righteous in their decision to reject having any sort of religious practice in their lives. In fact, for those who are disturbed by the fact that religion is so widely disliked by a lot of Israelis, they should want to provide a more liberal alternative to Orthodoxy, thereby depriving some of those secular Israelis of the right to complain that since their only choice is either Orthodox or nothing...they prefer nothing.
21. Keep it in the Bedroom
moshico ,   Jerusalem   (12.07.06)
It should stay in the bedroom not in the open. The rift is just going to get bigger between the Conservative movement and the Orthodox.
22. Pretty clear - no gays
Josh   (12.07.06)
The Conservitive movement does not accept gay at all as the article title would lead one to believe. They have dealt with this sin very appropriately. As with all sins one must deal with it and the consevratives seek this. Even the golden calf their was a period where people were allowed to chose up sides. Ordained but not allowed to serve as a rabbis, says your qulaified but until you stop sinning you cannot be a Rabbi. Regardless of this the Rabbis still don't teach Torah as it was written, but empty cerimonies, wild interpretations, and repetitive unoriginal prayer. Give G-d a new prayer. The teachings should have a foundation in Torah not and excuse in Torah. No homosexuality.
23.  SOME TORAH WORDS FROM >>> #9 #22 AND #19 AND #7
THERE ARE SOME THAT ,   ACCEPT 'GD' AS 'GD'   (12.07.06)
#22 says::: Regardless of this the rabbis still don't teach TORAH as it was written, but empty cerimonies, wild interpretations, and repetitive unoriginal prayer. Give G-d a new prayer. #19 a gay "rabbi" is not a real rabbi, just like pretending to practice Judaism isn't the same as actually practicing it. #7 SODOM ! DID THEY READ THE BIBLE ? SHAME ON THEM ! #9 Haredim means Hashem fearing Jew, MY NOTES: THEY ARE NOT RABBIS: RABBIS *KNOW TORAH* IS FROM THE ""ONE HOLY 'GD' OF ISRAEL' WHO SIMPLY SAID... """HOMOSEXUALITY IS AN ABOMINATION BEFORE ME'""" SECULARISM REFORM CONSERVATIVE RECONTRUCTIONIST ARE NOT PRACTICING JUDAISM THEY ARE INDIVIDUALLY *NEW RELIGIONS BASED ON XTIANITY IDEOLOGY NOT TORAH. explanation >CHANGE THE tTORAH WORDS TO FIT MY OPINION> WOW !!!!
24. Amazing world
Baruch ,   Boston, USA   (12.07.06)
It's amazing that so many people, many represented here, look at two men or two women as equivalent to a man and a woman in a romantic or sexual relationship. It's so unnatural, so bizarre, so antithetical to a stable and sane social structure. Such is the world we live in. But to further bring that into the realm of Judaism or Christianity (viz., the Episcopal Church in the US), is even more bizarre. Conservatism and Reform and Reconstructionism are destined for the dustbin of history. It's just a matter of time. Thank G-d for the Orthodox, who won't let secular madness turn them away from Torah. Who won't let bleeding heart liberalism overcome the wishes of the Almighty for our people. We are living in a sad time, but anything unnatural is simply a fad and destined to die a natural death. Give this broad acceptance of GLBT behavior time. It is destined to go.
25. to sk #12
ezra ,   canada   (12.07.06)
You write that "What Jews received at Sinai was the Pentateuch." Heard about the oral law ? As Lee fairly explained you, being 'haredi is not a question of clothes but of stringency in living the law.
26. #17's authentic judaism: go for 30 min on kol nidre
(12.07.06)
27. Where to now???
Helen ,   Cape Town, SA   (12.07.06)
The fact remains that there are some laws which are open to either a stricter or a more liberal interpretation due to the complexity of the ancient Hebrew language and the context within which things were written, but the law on homosexuality is most definitely not one of them. It seems that the more liberal streams of Judaism seem to be following the Christian path of "let's change the law to suit our own needs" and forgetting at the same time (quite conveniently), that changing the law is an even greater break with Halachah. Although I don't agree with the Haredi interpretation of a lot of things, I have to state that I'm stuggling to see now how we can still consider the streams that have changed the law on this fundamental level, to be true streams of Judaism.
28. The problem with Conservative Judaism
Dave Neil ,   Jerusalem   (12.07.06)
The problem with Conservative Judaism or any so-called “Judaism” outside of Torah Judaism is that it turns Judaism upside down on its head! Whereas HaShem created man and gave him the perfect Torah (with its perfect and challenging lifestyle called Halacha) by which he is to supposed to strive to live by it and be shaped by it. Conservative, Reform and Reconstruction etc. all try to re-create the Torah in their own image. They want Halacha to conform to their lifestyles and their worldview which has been filled with concepts and ideas from outside of the Torah and many are contradictory to the Torah. We say G-d created Adam in His image. And what reformers do is to create a new form of Judaism in their own image. But they will fail just like the Sadducees, Karites, and all the other branches that eventually broke off, died and fell away from the true living tree of Torah. And if you say that I am “intolerant” of other legitimate forms of Judaism then let me ask you what you think of my friends 5th branch of Judaism (I should say sixth since there is also the “Humanistic Branch” which basically says you don’t even need G-d to have a legitimate form of Judaism) My friend belongs to Beit Yeshua and his branch of Judaism is called Yeshua Judaism- Fulfillment in Judaism through Yeshua who died for our sins and who you must accept to be saved and to be Truly Jewish! (That’s right my friend belongs to a Jew for Jesus Synagogue) What? You don’t accept that as a legitimate form of Judaism? Boy are you intolerant!!! Why can Reform, Conservative etc all redesign Judaism but just because he believes in Jesus you want to shut him out. Well I have news for you. He sees himself as a Jew and as a fulfilled Jew through his acceptance of Christ. He wants to make Jews for Jesus the new sixth branch of Judaism. What you have standards? Well guess what I as an Orthodox Jew have standards too. Conservative “Judaism” and all the other so-called branches all fall outside my definition of what Judaism is. Who is to say that your standards which accepts everything (except Jesus) is better than my standards which accepts all the major strands of Orthodox Judaism but none of the other “forms” of Judaism? Sorry no more only keeping the fun stuff! If you want to eat them Chanakah latkes or doughnuts and be ideologically consistent with Torah true Judaism you gotta start fasting on Tisha B’Av too!
29. LEE ...
sk ,   USA   (12.07.06)
You have a bad habit of not responding to my replies. So, I am not sure I will respond to yours this time. sk
30. Conservative scholars?
dana ,   ny   (12.07.06)
Now thats an oxymoron! High school yeshiva students have logged more gemara study than most conservative "Goanim"
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