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Beirut rally: Death to Israel, US
Roee Nahmias
Published: 10.12.06, 16:29
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31. #15 But, 70.000 of them are christians, not muslims
observer   (12.10.06)
the "to be friends" of Isreal have been showing solidarity with Hizbullah to overthrow the government. The Guardian, 12.6.2006, reported : Organisers estimated that more than 70,000 Christians gathered for the mass outside Saint Joseph cathedral yesterday, the third day of anti-government protests. "The Christians are being marginalised today just as they were under the Syrians. We are invisible in the foreign media," said Sonya Saab, 35, an advertising manager, sitting outside one of the hundreds of white tents erected to accommodate the opposition's indefinite sit-in to bring down the government. http://www.guardian.co.uk/syria/story/0,,1963352,00.html
32. Now Israel can sell weapons to Lebanon.
Steven Wilson ,   Anchorage, Alaska   (12.10.06)
Let the civil war start round two. At least Israel won't have to feel bad about bombing Lebanon next time. Everyone knows what Nasrallahs intentions are to the Jewish state.
33. jews trying to make their enemies USA enemies
(12.10.06)
thanks alot- you selfish b@stards. Why dont you pick your own fights and leave USA out of it- We like Lebanon-
34. #33- Do you like Hizbullah-controlled Lebanon too?
LEE ,   NY, USA   (12.10.06)
Ask our Marines what they think of that. I would think that their not so sympathetic to that sort of Lebanon. As for a peaceful Lebanon, we've always extended our hand in peace to them. They would be our good friends and we would both benefit each other greatly.
35. Lebanese in USA
Tam   (12.10.06)
Why don't you pack up your crap and move back to your own freaking country where you can be oppressed by the muzzie majority. Death to Lebanon...you deserve it!
36. Speak for yourself number 33
Tam   (12.10.06)
I could care less what happens to the people of lebanon. They deserve whatever they get now!
37. Oh, those peace loving Lebanese!
Yoseph Sittizen ,   Israel   (12.10.06)
It's so refreshing to see the true face of our neighbors. Some of us think that it's too bad the EU and UN are sitting idly by while a legitimate UN member is toppled by a coup instead of by a vote in parliament. But then again, it looks like the Lebanese don't really want a parliament and prefer a Nasrallah theocracy, which will probably launch another victorious war against the zionist entity. As the farmboy said to the princess bride... as you wish.
38. Sasha, sweetheart (21), go back to Russia.
sk ,   USA   (12.11.06)
39. LEE (28, 29)
sk ,   USA   (12.11.06)
"I hope that was sufficient for you." Well, I grant that you've spent plenty of time on this response and that you're a decent enough fellow. I appreciate as well the detail you have offered here. Unfortunately, you do not adequately address my specific points, except for my reference to "clown suits." Incidentally, I was not the first to use that term here. I learned it from Yakov Shani (no longer on Ynet), who, oddly enough, became my favorite Israeli, even though I never met him. At the time, I was far less critical of the Haredim than he was. In your hands, the Haredim become a multifaceted group mostly distinctive by their differences. I, though, in your interpretation, am simply a hate-filled cardboard cut-out. That I supported Feiglin (financially and as a volunteer) a year ago but now cannot do so because of his lack of respect for free speech and assembly might indicate that my views are not so two-dimensional as you think -- and that maybe I've even "grown." And, as you suggest that you have read my TBs, you really should have figured this out. But really, these TBs should not be about the personalities of the Talkbackers. I did not invent Shas, UTJ, or other religious parties. These parties show how Individual variation can be aggregated in a political system. That is what I really care about. Anyway, I await a major Haredi leader who thought that the gay march SHOULD have occurred in Jerusalem. That would be "material" variation. Finally, LEE, I dearly wish that all Jews could focus on what we have in common. And yet, I am struck repeatedly by the refusal of many (especially the Haredim) to take these commonalities seriously.
40. To the Censor: please don't censor Linda Rivera.
sk ,   USA   (12.11.06)
It's not like she cusses at people.
41. sk on linda rivera
(12.11.06)
sk, seeing as you haven't seen linda rivera's talkbacks that WERE censored, you have no way of knowing their quality or content. those allowed are no indication of those censored
42. 31 (anti-Israel "Observer")
sk ,   USA   (12.11.06)
We already know that Lebanese Shiites are MUCH more pro-Hezbollah than either Sunnis or Maronites. So, I just don't believe the 70,000 figure. What has marginalized the Maronites, though, is that their leadership is controlled by Syria. But then you already know that, don't you?
43. c'mon no-name (41) ...
sk ,   USA   (12.11.06)
I grant the logic of your point, but we're talking about one of the best known personalities on Ynet. We all know what Linda's TBs would have looked like. I have soft spot for LR and just wanted to put in a good word.
44. #2 Do you have a brain?
NTI ,   Red Chili   (12.11.06)
It is the Lebanese government that is allowing this bunch of stupig muslims (followers to the devil) to protest undisturbed. The democracy badge belongs to our beloved PM Siniora.
45. sk 40-43-Thanks you! #41 They're comments published before!
Linda Rivera ,   New York   (12.11.06)
My comments are censored daily which means I have to keep re-submitting the same comments. Sometimes my comments are censored for days! Generally they are comments I have made before - some have links and parts of YNET articles in the comments - so YNET articles are censored along with my comments! My comments are mostly about my concern for Israel's defense and about human rights for Jews and other non-Muslims. My comments are often backed up by facts and parts of articles with the links. Maybe I should not comment any more that I'm being censored. Thank you sk - I really appreciate your speaking up for me.
46. sk: please expand
LEE ,   NY, USA   (12.11.06)
I appreciate the response. My mind is directed towards your statements about Feiglin. I, myself, am currently a supporter of his movement, although admittedly I have not studied all the facets of his approach. His books are sitting on my counter and I have yet to get to them. I'd appreciate an elaboration on your statement concerning him, and if there is a serious issue I would be happy to approach his organization to get a retort.
47. #4 ask Olmert
(12.11.06)
to be a living victorious is better than a living defeated, isn't it true !
48. #6 they r too civilized too show their democracy, publicly !
(12.11.06)
49. Sk: re: #39
LEE ,   NY, USA   (12.11.06)
I was thinking it better not to prolong our discussion too much, but my curiousity into your last statement begs me to ask why you would write the statement: "I await a major Haredi leader who thought that the gay march SHOULD have occurred in Jerusalem. That would be "material" variation. " I really don't get that. Why would any "Haredi" leader (or any form of Orthodox leader) think that the march SHOULD have occured in Jerusalem? Is it not known to you that homosexuality is a clear prohibition in our Torah? Not only is it directly prohibited in the Written Torah (Thou Shalt not lie with a man as with a woman, Leviticus 18:22), but it is also indirectly prohibited by the very first commandment (to be fruitful and multiply). Why would you think any Haredi leader would stray from this clear commandment? Remember, these groups don't create G-d in their image, as the Conservative and Reform movement tend to. A Haredi leader that would side with the gay march would inherently not be Haredi. No Haredi leader would condone such a serious sin, let alone accept mass groups of people flaunting, encouraging, and taking pride in such a sin in what is the holiest part of Our Land per our Torah? And I also, therefore, cannot understand your conclusion to that senitment: "That would be "material" variation." Yeah, it certaintly would be, but what's the point? Are you saying that if they don't vary on this point, hence, there is no variation between them and that then you are legitimized in lumping them all together (politically or otherwise)? Don't forgot that these groups differ in their hashkafa (perspective philosophies), but very little in their Halacha (paths in Torah). The Halacha on homosexuality is crystal clear, so why would you expect them to vary on this?
50. Listen Isreal do not be afraid of Iran, Lebanon, Syria....
J ,   USA, Spanish   (12.11.06)
44 "When your people go to war against their enemies, wherever you send them, and when they pray to the LORD toward the city you have chosen and the temple I have built for your Name, 45 then hear from heaven their prayer and their plea, and uphold their cause.
51. Keep em' coming Linda. We need voices of Truth!
LEE ,   NY, USA   (12.11.06)
52. Lebanon is turning into Iran already!!!
Jellybean ,   Chicago   (12.11.06)
Death to America! Death to Isreal!! the only thing missing is the women are not wearing the burqa's. Don't worry in a few months there won't be a cedar flag just an Iranian flags! Enjoy it while it lasts!
53. Isreal hear this!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
J ,   USA, Spanish   (12.11.06)
You who bring good tidings to Zion, go up on a high mountain. You who bring good tidings to Jerusalem, [c] lift up your voice with a shout, lift it up, do not be afraid; say to the towns of Judah, "Here is your God!"
54. LEE (46): please expand ...
sk ,   USA   (12.12.06)
Hi LEE. I have commented about Feiglin & freedom in several places. On Ynet, see http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3325076,00.html One of my responses there links to a series of responses in Israel National News as well. I have read _Where There Are No Men_, and I think it is very compelling in its case against the Israeli status quo. I think Feiglin is a great man, indeed a giant. Unfortunately, he is a one-eyed giant: his great height lets him see far away, but his single eye means he sees nothing in perspective. By the way, I was personally treated very kindly by the organization, though I was not known to be gay until the Jersulem gay march was on the docket. I did not wear a kippah, but that produced not a single disparaging comment or even look (except a suspicious look from an 8 year old). I should also say that when I came out in the organization (which I did only because I could not sit quitely when I read about the its position on the march) I was still treated very kindly. This made my departure very said for me.
55. LEE (49)
sk ,   USA   (12.12.06)
" Why would any "Haredi" leader (or any form of Orthodox leader) think that the march SHOULD have occured in Jerusalem? Is it not known to you that homosexuality is a clear prohibition in our Torah?" Let's leave aside the question of whether homosexuality per se is prohibited in the Pentatuch (I say it isn't). The fact is that the Haredi leadership believes it to be. However, we are not talking about public man-on-man action in Jerusalem. No, we are talking about free speech and assembly along routes that house such "profane" (as opposed to religious) institutions as the Knesset. So the question is not whether halacha prohibits homosexuality but whether it prohibits a march. Certainly the Pentatuch does not prohibit the latter, nor, I think, does the Tanach. If the Orthodox and ultra-Orthodox rabbis think that halacha does prohibit this march (as opposed to the activity), then there is a conflict between free speech/assembly and halacha. In that case, I side with freedom. The rabbis could have said that halacha DOES probibit the march as well as homosexual relations per se, but still have said that they are not going to try to force the issue. In this case, they simply recognize the limits of their temporal authority. "Are you saying that if they don't vary on this point, hence, there is no variation between them and that then you are legitimized in lumping them all together (politically or otherwise)?" Well, if they don't vary on this point, surely I am justified in lumping them together on this point .... And, if this point sheds light on other points (and I think it does), that, too, is significant.
56. sk: I'm disappointed.
LEE ,   NY, USA   (12.12.06)
"Let's leave aside the question of whether homosexuality per se is prohibited in the Pentatuch (I say it isn't)." Pentatuch means the Five Books of Moses: Genesis (Beresheit), Exodus (Shmot), Leviticus (Vayikra), Numbers (Bamidbar), and Deuteronomy (Dvarim). Leviticus 18:22, (once again) reads in Hebrew: Ve'et ha'zachar lo tishkav mishkevai isha, to'eva hi. Literally in English: And for the man, you (in the masculine form) shall not lie with him as with a woman; it is an abomination. Please, I would love to hear your rendition of this verse's meaning. Let's not just "leave aside" this question. Its one of the pillars of our argument and is certaintly the main pillar of unanimous "Haredi"(as well as any Orthodox) opposition. You've already told me that you don't believe our Oral Tradition comes from Sinai , but you've at least acknowldeged the Pentatuch that I'm quoting verbatim. Have the infamous Rabbis spun this one too? Enlighten me.
57. #55
LEE ,   NY, USA   (12.12.06)
SK my darling,when can we stop all this chit chat,get together and really converse on all subjects,mainly one,i believe you know what that is darling,i mean me to you,you to me,and then we can help the rabbis. tooda loo big guy!!!
58. sk: a little disclaimer- part 1
(12.12.06)
sk, I erroneously read your last comment (55) before your previous comment (54) and I feel it is my duty to say a few words. I hope you hearken to them and absorb them well. The Torah does not despise anyone with homosexual tendencies. G-d, as He is known from our tradition, never closes the door nor ignores, nor abandons, a single one of His children. He knows each and every emotion, each and every enticement, and can relate to each and every heart and desire, for He created them all. But He does have a guide for us and this is the Torah that we have been so extremely fortunate to receive. In this Torah he lays the blueprint for life. He does not need us to follow it and in fact He does not need us at all, for He lacks absolutely nothing. The way we relate to the Torah, affects us and the entire world around us, but it does nothing to Him. He, in his compassion, let us know what is best for US, because of His unending love. Adding to this the knowledge that no man, even Moses, can go through life without at least a minor sin, we come to the realization that we are not angels, but merely humans. Nevertheless, we are commanded with Laws and if we love our Creator we must respect His instruction. Now, our tradition teaches that every person is born with a different set of inclinations (we can get into a deep kabbalistic discussion here, but let me try not to digress). Some people have a tendency to anger easily, others to be selfish, while some have a tendency to always talk bad about others. Does this mean that it’s alright to be angry all the time, to be selfish, to gossip? Of course not. In your TBs you keep raising the mantle of freedom. Well yes, we're "free" to be all these things. But is this really the essence of freedom? If I'm born with an inclination and decide, "freely" to succumb to it, does that make me free or am I simply a prisoner of that inclination? I'm sure your smirking and asking how I have the audacity to assume that homosexuality is wrong from us. Well, they are not my words, they are His, as I've quoted on my last talk back.
59. sk: HOWEVER
LEE ,   NY, USA   (12.12.06)
However, and this is a HUGE however, I am also commanded to love my neighbor as I love myself. (And yes that was me in the last article- #54). I know I sin. In fact I sin a lot. And if I sin, who am I to hate my brother who sins also? How arrogant would that be? I can only develop hate for those who deliberately look to hate me and do harm unto me or my loved ones. But this attitude also does not excuse me or someone who loves me from reprimanding and speaking out when sin is done. Because this is an expression of my love for them and their love for me. If I commit a sin, I need someone to tell me (in a pleasant yet firm manner) that not only should I use my freedom to change, but that I also have a great ability within me to actuate that change. G-d, in His unending love, would never tell me that I cannot do something, without giving me the inherent powers within me to avoid that something. I just need to acknowledge that it is an inclination that I need to avoid for MY own good and then that criticism turns into a very valuable thing. I know that many people have lost their sensitivities and that they cannot tell the difference between the sin and the sinner, but it remains true that while one should hate the sin, he should not necessarily hate the sinner, but rather lead him in love, towards the right path. That’s the really hard part. The man who has homosexual tendencies (there is no such thing as a homosexual or a gay man, as that is just a tool to let you believe that you cannot change) should never be hated, unless of course, he revels in his sin, encourages others, and rebels outwardly against his Creator’s Law, in his Holy Land, in the city of His sanctuary. Such a man is dangerous and lacks the very sensitivities he cries out for. I have gay friends, I have fat friends, I have stingy friends and I have egotistical friends, and I love them all dearly. Yet I will not be quiet when I believe they are doing harm to themselves and their surroundings. And they love me for that because they know of my intentions and that I will always be there for them regardless. So, my friend, understand that the battle against homosexuality will never end as it shouldn’t, for it is a clear Torah violation. But neither will the battle for peace, respect, and unity among siblings in a Chosen Nation. May we all play a crucial role in both these battles, for our own sake.
60. #57 was obviously not me.
LEE ,   NY, USA   (12.12.06)
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