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Study: Jerusalem twice as poor
David Regev
Published: 11.01.07, 10:47
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41 Talkbacks for this article
1. Nu! TB's of a certain known bias
Alice ,   Israel   (01.11.07)
Ready steady go! One at a time please. Attack, now!
2. Haredim + Arabs = Poverty
Terry ,   Eilat - Israel   (01.11.07)
The only way to reduce poverty in Jerusalem is to oblige Haredim to enter the work-force. This means changes in the educational system, elimination of child support, obligatory national service, & pressuring the rabbis to support these changes.
3. not just Jerusalem
Atilla Karagözoğlu   (01.11.07)
many cities, many countries. how we produce guns ? how we buy guns ? MONEY !!! who is money ? yours, theirs, mine..... what to do ? nothing unless we dont start to have respect for others life. you know what I hate ! I hate who try to change others acoording to their believes. while I was driving to my office this morning, I was listening a radion channel, a religion channel, different religion. you know what they are telling in short , "come to join to My God" I HATE THIS. LET EVERYONE LIVE WITH THEIR BELIEVE. that mentality took our money. so, lets start to chane them into a normal way with saying "JUST LIVE YOUR LIFE, WE DONT WANT ANYTHING BY YOU" I dont pray anymore. I start hate who prays. God...God...God.... WE DONT KNOW ANYTHING BUT GOD. I HATE THIS. WE ARE NOT PROPHET. RELIGIONS MUST BE AS SEX LIFE. THEY MUST BE SECRET. THEY MUST STAY AS SECRET. My Point: Religions are great but lets live them quit. do we tell our sex life to people ? NO. so, dont try convert world into your world. thanks.
4. Most of the poor of Jerusalem choose poverty
Dorothy Friend ,   Tel Aviv   (01.11.07)
If less than 1/2 of the people who are capable of working work, what do they expect?
5. ?
darryl ,   israel   (01.11.07)
try working
6. You have money for everything but no money for the poor
bentham ,   singapore   (01.11.07)
They are poor They are hungry They thristy They are homeless They are sick They are sad They are the poor The poor are everywhere The natural resources are there The rich manipulates the riches The rich live on the spoil They are there in Africa They are in India They are in Israel They are in Gaza They are everywhere G-d created an earth full of food The poor have no food Where is the food Where is the water where is the medicines It is all in the hands of the filty rich It is in the hands of buerocrats It is all in the hand of the Polititians It is all in the hands of the terrorist Where is G-d G-d is among the poor G-d is among the children G-d is among the mothers G-d is among the fathers You rich , you dishonor the poor You dishonor the CREATOR You pervert justice You rob the poor Of their daily wage Of their daily right A right to exist A right to food A right to a decent home A right to a shelter You want more The more you take The more you want You laugh, your party While My POOR cry The tear od blood Runs like water on the soil The soil that you stand The Land that G-d gave the Poor You oppress the poor Yoy oppress the creator You oppress the Malik Malik Olam, Knows All You Do!
7. Dotty Fiend, didn't even read the article
Kyle ,   Southpark, CO, USA   (01.11.07)
Obviously missed the part where it says that people who HAVE JOBS get PAID LESS.
8. Low Wages, Higher Taxes
B ,   Jerusalem   (01.11.07)
The average Jerusalem salary is lower and yet municipal taxes are higher. Maybe that needs reassessing. Punishing those that can afford to pay city taxes to foot the bill of the Charedim and Arabs that don't pay their bills due to "poverty" is not good math.
9. ?
susan   (01.11.07)
try giving tzdaka, and share some of that enormous wealth, self satisfied smug oleh. Works wonders for the soul, oops that explains it...
10. The Rich- The Poor
bentham ,   singapore   (01.11.07)
A wealthy class emerged Amos speaks: They live in winter homes They live in summer palace They decorate their homes With expensive furniture Their enviroment conveys.. A sense, a sence of decadent affluence Affluence of the Rich At the expense of the poor They lie on ivory beds Lolling on their couches Feasting on lambs from the flock They drink straight from the.. wine bowl And anoint themsleves with the choicest oils.. But they are not concerned with the ruins of Joseph.. their fellow israelites They do not share They play Ahab and Jezebel They take my children away from their home land They take the land from the poor You make elobrate worse From the tears of my children You form your voice by your power, might and influence You make the POOR poor You become rich by the poor. This is the mark of your society A society with sharp class as divisions emerges You act a though my G-d dont see My G-d is not a pagan diety. Your riches is your idol Idol of a pagan diety The Poor belongs to My G-d Shame on you Israel For you are rich but only to be poor You forget the poor In your soul , in your might, in your self-glory, you forget the poor G-d cries, G-d cries because his children cry
11. #6
(01.11.07)
..... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... Malik Olam, Knows All You Do! **************************** Bentham, when two (people) speak the third one is Him. when three speak the forth one is Him. when you speak, it is in you. Atilla Karagözoğlu Your Brother
12. #7, #8, #9
Dorothy Friend ,   Tel Aviv   (01.11.07)
Yes, I did read the article, and it clearly says that the % of people who can work but won't is higher in Jerusalem. And as #8 notes (I have a friend who is a prof at the Hebrew univiersity and has been saying it for years), it's the people who work that have to foot the bill for those who won't work. And as for tzdaka, I have a number of standing orders for donations, but there is a difference between tzdaka, and carrying the burden of people who simply refuse to work.
13. Who Cares?
Dave ,   T.A. Israel   (01.11.07)
God (and I) will help those who help themselves. Looks like they want to live like that. Does anyone care??
14. Kyle
charles ,   petach tikva   (01.11.07)
If they had good professions , they would be paid more . And that's true for everyone in the whole world , if you have nothing in your hands , you can't earn a decent or good living . So it's only they , or their parents , who are guilty of this situation , sad .
15. Making Jerusalem Work
Kate ,   Jerusalem   (01.11.07)
Raise the minimum wage to a "LIVING WAGE" level. It's not just a good start - it's good economics. People who earn enough to live on, use their little extra to buy from retailers and businesses and service providers - which in turn creates employment, which in turn lowers the unemployment rates. Instead, the government is offering to give a negative tax to low income people - thus encouraging greedy businesses to continue paying less than a living wage. And why not if the government is supplementing their employees? It's more profits in their pockets. Undoubtebly the "studiously studying" ultraothodox do contribute to Jerusalem's higher unemployment levels - but their numbers do NOT contribute to the deplorably low wages available in our capital. And it is these terrible wages that lead to increased poverty levels. Yes - I do agree that the government should stop funding Yeshiva studies for full grown men who've decided they should never work. Let them find their own haluka - as they did in the past. But what about the unemployed, poverty stricken residents who simply can't get a job? What about those who try to support their children on 3500 NIS a month? We can't solve the ultra-orthodox government sponsored haluka problem overnight. But we CAN solve the problem of poverty wages perpetuating poverty. Ah - for a government of intelligent leaders!
16. All the experts on chareidim
Miri   (01.11.07)
Among all your chareidi friends( arent I funny ) do you actually know any that don't work? We do know so many, but haven't ever met one that doesn't do any work. I believe they're there but( like the so called jews with horns) I haven't seen or met them. I see the quiet way they choose clothes and toys for their babies and children in the modest chareidi shops in their areas, with such gentle finesse,(Just like shilav hen houses in the malls) that I stand back in awe. I travelled on their hasa'ot occasionally on Friday afternoons, and just marvelled at the quietness, and holy feeling of Shabbat(os) that already permeates the atmosphere, with their beautifully behaved children, occassionally whispering to their mother, already dressed in their 'shabbes' clothes. Some of you will have a lot to answer for one day, friends, in spite of the hora'ot keva, which is no big deal, we all do that, like the Army, yes, we know 'they' dont blah blah blah. To me, you are wicked cruel people, which is not how Jews should be.
17. Miri (#16) - exactly
dovid n ,   Jerusalem, Israel   (01.11.07)
18. Kate & 7 8 on spot
gabriela ben ari ,   jerusalem   (01.11.07)
Kate For once I agree with you I don't think it is only the fact that Hareidim work less what makes Jerusalem SO poor. At a national level, little is being done to descentralize Gush Dan as the economical capital of this country. All those monster industrial parks - from high tech to low tech are situated in or around Dan's periphery. Meaning if you are lucky to get a High Tech job in Jerusalem you better make do with whatever they pay you. Another problem that hits the country is the "legaly unemployed" population that wont seek any legal job, just in case they have to give up on national security. A mystery why goverment pays year after year to these poeple who are the real suckers, more than hareidim, who at least study and have many kids. I wished to see Nat, Sec money go to single parents and the handiped, who are the ones having it impossible. And the circle comes back- why give up Nat Sec if you'll earn working hard only 3,500 sh per month anyways ? Goverment & people dont seem to ever get it Those min wages which are the norm in Jerusalem, are legalized slavery, and nothing less. Add to it the prospect of getting Nat. security and we'll hear the same report ad infinitum
19. #14
Kyle ,   Southpark, CO, USA   (01.11.07)
So then you agree I should not make aliyah until I have earned my college degree!
20. 14 charles
gabriela ben ari ,   jerusalem   (01.11.07)
HAving a good profession does not guarantee a place in the job market given the scenario we have in Jerusalem HAving a good educated work force does NOT CREATE the job vacancies. Ask all my friends holding BA MA and PhD working at monkey jobs, and yeas most of them religious. An educated person will find a "better job" easier, with that i agree, but not in Jerusalem. So the only thing to do is to move, as the trend goes , to Dan Area. Needless to say this is national suicide. Any strong national, economical, political state, survives when the market is equally geographically distributed as much as possible. Little is done to save Jerusalem from emigration to the centre. Figure out
21. Gabriela
charles ,   petach tikva   (01.11.07)
You are probably right . A question , does the ultra orthodox people also have high qualifications ? I do not think so . And they are the poorest , and it's about them that we are talking . Shabbat Shalom
22. Kate and Gabriela
charles ,   petach tikva   (01.11.07)
If you rase the wages , you will have the same effect as with the Israeli textile industry . Delocalisation to a place where wages are lower . This gives more unemployed people . You will not find easily a big society investing much money as Intel did in Kyriat Gat . This problem with "professional" unemployed is not only an Israeli one . In other countrys those have to accept a job , or loose benefits of social security . They are also redirected or receive training for professions where there is a need for work force .
23. #22 - Again missing the point and the artilce
Kate ,   Jerusalem   (01.11.07)
Charles - the low paying jobs in Jerusalem are not "textile" or "factory" or even "unskilled labor". Managers, Administrators, Coordinators, librarians, medical support staff and office workers in Jerusalem are routinely paid between 4000 and 6000 NIS. Most have at least a BA. Other "skilled" workers are often paid minimum wage - even when their employer is doing well and profits are up. There is no reason NOT to pay people what they are worth - what is an acceptable wage on a national scale.
24. miri miri
Mike ,   Toronto   (01.11.07)
the reason they are able to do all those nice things, and talk so nicely and all the rest that you mentioned in your talk back is exactly why the situation is the way it is. Do you have any idea how much a family of 10 cost this country and the people that work to pay for that family? the reason they are in that toy store to begin with is due to the fundemental problem of this and other goverments willing to give to those that arent not willing to give back. there is nothing "NICE" about that. SHABAT SHALOM MIRI
25. Kate
charles ,   petach tikva   (01.11.07)
not missed . So you pretend that all the wages in Jerusalem are lower ?Even in the gouvernement offices ? You missed this article . It was not an article over wages , it was that 70 % of the ultra orthodox were poor . OK ? And i said that it was due to them not being trained. I did not want to say that they are only studying tora , have extended family's , and live on aid , State or private .
26. #24
Dorothy Friend ,   Tel Aviv   (01.11.07)
Yes, one does also have to consider how many people have to be fed, educated and clothed on the wage. If you can't afford to decently care for a family of ten -- DONT CREATE ONE!!! I actually do know a very religious family with 8 kids, but mom is a high level professional in her field and dad is a successul contractor, who really pays his workers well. They could probably even afford to have a couple of more kiddies, no problem.
27. kate
charles ,   petach tikva   (01.11.07)
If all the people you name earn between 4 and 6000 , how can it be that the average is 5940 ? In Tel Aviv this average is 7200 and some shekel . You missed not only the article , but everything .
28. Charles (Kate)
gabriela ben ari ,   jerusalem   (01.11.07)
KAte is right again in #23, I will expand For your question about hereidim's skills, i'll only speak for what *I see*. For the most, younger generation say up to 50 ys, women at large have some BA equivalent, and they make excellent programers, accountants, social workers ect. As for hareidi men, I would say that those born outside of Israel or returnees hold higher free profesion credentials than regular Israeli. Given that 44% of Pot WF work in jerusalem while 54 % in the rest of the country I would not get too enthusiastic in blaming the hareidim for the 10% gap. We should put the attention on the fact that Ave salary is 20% lower in Jlem, well this IS a gap. As for the textile - & low tech industries I agree wth Kate. These branches underwent globalization and altogether Israeli textiles are mostly manufactured outside Israel Dont froget that Israel is the biggest exporter of software technology in the world ! About those salaries we are worried about. There is NO good reason in the world they should be lower in Jlem. And given the advantage that Jlem has an enourmous mass of high skilled people - WHY ON EARTH GOV doesnt re-locate some high tech comps here(?) is also a mystery to me. Your eg of Intell is perfect. Even though, as u said unemployed pofessioneal is a world-wide problem, Israel DOES produce and need these people,meaning a lot can be done in this country, specially if we want to keep Jerusalem safe from total evacuation to the Dan and stop this trend now
29. Canadian Mike
Miri   (01.11.07)
I sent them your message: "No more babies, in the river with them all"( like pharaoh in the bible). Ooh you're scary, big king mike. "Be like the rest of the country, don't have children, have dogs, and drive that terribly ugly jeep you're paying off,purely 'cos the neighbour has one. That way all the country's problems shall be solved" Thus decreed Pharaoh of Toronto
30. Gabriela
charles ,   petach tikva   (01.11.07)
Not Kate but I in my # 22 raised the problem of delocalisation . Try to read correctly .
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