Listen , if they , as you state , are skilled , how is it to explain that 70 % of them are the poorest ? The second poorest Jewish town is Bne Berak , in the Dan region , with the Kyriat Arye industrial Hi Tec and other good paying industry not faraway , with higher salarys as in Jerusalem . And who lives in this town ? again many ultra orthodox . So there is probably a big problem with them . And here you can not say that the salarys are 20 % lower than in Tel Aviv . So how do you explain ?

There is no further argument that can be made. Are you arguing for arguments sake? Perhaps you should simply re-read the article. There is no sense in trying to make sense out of the senseless.

Listen , even with a good salary , if you have many children , your income per person stay's low , and your children are listed as poor , sad to say but it is so . Why do you think that in developped countrys people have only one or two children ? They want to give them material wealth and possibilitys of higher education . And this is very expensive .

I have read this article very well . It's a problem with the ultra orthodox , not only lower salarys . It's not to argue with you , or others . But i'm right , know what i'm talking about , and give serious facts .

Charley I'm going nuts already. Look at the global picture, the forest not the tree. Nice arguing, but I' m done (hopefully) for tonite. Bye

To Gabriela and Kate , a fine Shabbat . Enjoy this day [ and also the others ]

I'm looking not only at the tree in Jerusalem , but also at the forest in Bne Brak .

for the darryls and mikes and their variations. Stand in the 'poor areas' of Jerusalem( no they wont stone you if youre respectful) in need of a meal, on Shabbat. Guaranteed you'll be invited, by a 'poor' person to eat with him his wife and his 10 children. Now stand in the ' affluent areas' of Ramat/Hoddysharon and Ranyana (not on SCHWARTZ STREET, as thats cheating) and do the same.... (Just don't get run over by the 4by4's as they grimace with disdain, and race past you.)Thank Gd some good people do look after the poor. I leave it to the kates and gabrielas( they CARE) to solve the logistics, which would be wonderful, but without a 'soul', our nation is doomed. The stories of the overblown excessive wealth( much of it corrupt ) are shpritzed in our faces. Shabbat Shalom.

Maybe they invite someone , for them it's a Mitzwa to do so . So also a favor for themselve . You have not to be religious to help needy people , Tzedaka is a good Jewish tradition , also done by seculars , not for a Mitzwa .

especially when most everyone already is Jewish in some form. The Judaic movements should be free to flourish and self supporting. Let the creative market impulses take over. The demand will support the supply for movement Rabbis. Abolish the Chief Rabbinate. Get them off the public dole. Stop forcing Orthodoxy down everyones throat. The individual Jew knows better than anyone else what he/she needs in the way of Jewish Religion. These measures will enable more funds to be allocated to the truely needy, and remove some of the parasites choking the body politic.

then you get stuck in the poverty trap cycle. if corporations are subsidized to bring jobs into places..(cooporate welfare...) and then they employ people at minimum wage...which by the way is less than 20shks hr..ie less than $5 per hr... and the job is part-time..because then the employer has to pay less employee taxes (more coporate welfare) then its very difficult to earn enough money to live... once you are out of the work ethic/ practice, its very difficult for a lot of people to take the step to get off welfare as the expenses of working means they end up with less money than they get from social security. When the social security is not enough money to live on in the first place there is little or no incentive to apply for jobs.. never mind get them. combine that with poor education, lack of opportunities, difficulty with language, no "protexia" and so on is it any wonder that people give up trying. even if you are well educated and have a job, it doesn't mean that the wages are good. you also have to look at what do we mean by poverty.. is it an absolute standard.. eg no food in the cupboard, not being able to afford heating etc ? or is it relative...eg no tv, no computer, no internet, no car, no "entertainment", no holidays abroad and so on...? not everyone believes material possesions are the way to happiness, but everyone agrees (i hope) that people need money to pay for food, utilities, clothes, etc. Here in Israel the figures just don't add up. everyone lives on credit or "in the minus". i don't think that whether someone is religious or not, or has a big family or not, necessarily has anything to do with whether they are poor by definition a) or by definition b). what does have an effect is how much money comes in the door, and how it is spent. People can work and still be poor. Working for minimum wages plus high rents / mortgages =poverty. even without any children. Subsidized housing would help a lot to get people out of the poverty trap.