Opinion  Others
The bible debate
A. Hetsroni, S. Abuav
Published: 18.01.07, 23:45
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1. Bible Lessons
Galit ,   NYC   (01.19.07)
Without the Torah there is no reason for Jews and certainly no reason for a State of Israel, without the Torah we have Oslo and the past summers Lebanon War.
2. A Good idea
gabriel ,   mtl   (01.19.07)
If done with repect and correctly im for this idea. By the way you dont have to study vayikra. You can teach psalms or proverbs!
3. Good idea
Ariel ,   Canberra, Australia   (01.19.07)
if done in a meaningful way. Studying the Torah from a critical viewpoint will only turn students away from it. If it won't be studied in the traditional way, then at least study it in a philosphical way (study the comments of Martin Buber and Prof. Cassuto, for example). Whilst some sections (such as Vayikra) are boring, they should be read in order to keep eveything in context. There are great ways to teach Torah in classrooms and make it enjoyable. If the teacher is knowledgable and passionate, the students will follow. Another tool (which worked on me) was to give out sweets to the child who read a verse and was able to explain it to the rest of the class...
4. "THE BIBLE" - IS JEWISH NATIONAL HISTORY - LITTARALLY
andrew ,   MIAMI,FL   (01.19.07)
5. WHATS A BIBLE?
.................... ,   ..............DACON9   (01.19.07)
6. Bible studies like in the 1940s and 1950s are essential.
Mehandes Hiloni ,   Haifa   (01.19.07)
'Scriptures' must be a compulsory matric subject. Consistent adherence to these policies, for almost a century, has provided us with great advantages. Any relaxation would erode these advantages.
7. evolution?
toni ,   sabme   (01.19.07)
is this book not historical? its old. it has a lot to do with or contemporary life. does it not? so teach it from a litterary point of view. and if evolution is what they say it is .then the wheat will be seperated from the chaf. we all have brains isay bring it on and freedom will do the rest.
8. THE BIBLE IS THE FOUNDATION OF REAL CIVILIZATION
(01.19.07)
9. Amir
gabriela ben ari ,   jerusalem   (01.19.07)
I'm glad you wouldn't want your kids to waste their time with with the bilble. You arent a jew just the physical son of "jewish" mother you dont need judaism? we jews do not need you go to Oslo, Gaza and learn communications there
10. Importance of Education
Steve ,   USA   (01.19.07)
B"H It is vitally important that Jewish children have this knowledge. The book of Leviticus, by the way, does not at all talk about extinct laws. It talks about relationships and government organization, which definately could use some improvement. It is the foundation of many forms of Western government today. Consider the representative system of government found in the United States, where there are two senators from each state, has its basis there where each tribe has its representative before Moses. To not thoroughly understand the Torah is to lack an understanding of modern civilization and Jewish foundations. It is absolutely essential that Jewish children in Israel have this knowledge as well as Jewish children not living in Israel. Especially in a secular world, it is important to understand society's foundation which can be analyzed through the perspective of Torah even today. It is extremely important.
11. bible
izaak   (01.19.07)
life is learning you take the best out and passover the bad . in the bible there is alot of violence as in the world . alot of events we now feel guilt and doubt about -- the mass murders the cruel executions. our own horrendous sufferings are inexplicable in the knowledge of good and bad.
12. The Bible Debate
de Rossi ,   San Francisco, USA   (01.19.07)
Hetsroni and Abuav each offer uninteresting, almost useless arguments on the issue. Neither one acknowledges that the Bible is first and foremost a religious document. Neither addresses fundamental questions regarding the place of religion in a democratic society.
13. If It's Scientific Study of Bible, Yes.
Terry ,   Eilat - Israel   (01.19.07)
The Bible is our history. If studied in combination with literary analysis, philology, archeology, our connexion to the civilizations of the ancient world, nothing could be as interesting as the Bible. Anyway, why should we cut ourselves off from our roots - the Bible is the reason we still exist as a people. In a very real sense, it is why we are here.
14. less teaching of politics, more BIBLE teaching
Sid ,   Bangalore India   (01.19.07)
Dr Hetsroni's form of argument is odd indeed. He says there are many Tanach passages which are obscure and irrelevant, so we should cut down teaching Tanach. There are many books that are obscure and irrelevant. Should we therefore cut down teaching books? Another point he misses: most politics taught in schools today is an exercise in indoctrination by teachers to try to get children's minds in line with the latest political ideas endorsed by teachers.. More learning about computers is done outside the lower school classrooms than in lower school classrooms. In other words, a lot of 'teaching' in today's classroom closes minds and turns people off. At least when teachers teach Bible there's a good chance what they teach is relevant and universal -- and will be important to the children after the fads taught by their teachers have faded into obscurity.
15. OUR TORAH LEADS US TO HASHEM.
DEBRA ,   USA   (01.19.07)
OF COURSE, IT SHOULD BE TAUGHT IN ISRAELI SCHOOLS.
16. Terry, Eilat (#13): Well said!
Paqid 16 Netzarim ,   Ra'anana, Israel   (01.19.07)
17. For the character of the Jew to survive
(01.19.07)
Bible studies are important. Even if studied in a nonreligious way, the ethics and morals necessarily create the 'Jewish identity'. We have today in education (for the whole Western tradition) self-loathing that has crept in during the past 40 years. We criticize everything, even our own identity. Having pride in yourself and community is deemed 'facist' or at the very least retrograde. This is akin to the Culture Revolution of China where they practically committed intellectual and cultural suicide. And where did it get them? The produced no novels, music, art..nothing...it was outside Chinese communities (like Hong Kong and Taiwan) that carried the cultureal torch. Israel need not go down the same path. I am not particularly religious (I am not completely secular either). but I read the Bible and I make sure I understand Jewish history. Its part of who I am. Throughout history is has been the Bible (shaping our identity) that has provided the strength and stability for us to survive for nearly 5000 years. Let it continue for 5000 more...
18. ignoramous - am ha'aretz
yoni ,   jerusalem   (01.19.07)
someone who obviously doesnt know the first thing about the greatness and wisdom contained within the torah cannot make a judgement call whether or not to learn it and which parts are relevant or boring. you are ignoratn if you say parts of the torah are irrelevant and you owe it to yourself as a jew to study the torah and find out what you don't know. you obviously don't know ALOT
19. Torah
robin ,   Israel,K.Bialik   (01.19.07)
HAving Torah class in school as part of the regular curriculim is fine, but extra Torah is not needed. Many of the students in my Daughter's 6th grade class need more help in Math(right now the teacher is teaching them at 4th grade level math) they cannot be taught 6th grade level because most of the kids can't do simple 4th grade level work, and that probably is the same for their Hebrew reading & writing levels too. What is needed more than anything in the schools is remidial classes,so that the kids how have trouble with their subjects can get the extra help they needed ,so that the rest of the classs that is working at grade level can learn math at grade level, because what will happen when they get to the 7th grade and do not know 6 grade level math? Spend textra time on tutoring the poorer students rather than on Torah!
20. Yes if they are willing to teach the truth
Sidney ,   USA   (01.19.07)
It would be useful for all Jews to learn the true history of our people. The insights in the book "The Bible Unearthed" by Israel Finkelstein and Neil Silberman has had a major effect on my understanding. If they are going to teach the standard bubbe meisses, which constitute much of Torah, it would be a waste of time. Contrary to what has been said here, Kings is the key to real understanding, especially 2Kings 22. It would also be useful to corect the lies in the bible about the Kingdom of Israel.
21. Waste of time !?
Watchman ,   Finland   (01.19.07)
Is there a true Israelite who will call the reading of the Holy Scriptures a waste of time? "I the LORD have called thee ... for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles" (Isaiah 42:6) "a crucial part of general education in the 21st century" would be to see and teach the prophecies that are fulfilling today: Rome is raising again (Dan. 2:33) and her prince is just about to make the covenant with Israel (Dan. 9:27). The time of Jacob’s trouble is at hand (Jer. 30:7)! But, Jacob, your Prince of Peace is coming. Are you prepared for His covenant? http://www.JeesusOnHerra.com/Prophecy_Heb.pdf
22. The Bible and the relevance of the Word of God
zachary ,   malaysia   (01.19.07)
From the opening verse Gen 1:1 "in the beginning ..." to the closing Word of God in Revelation 20:21 "The grace of the Lord Jesus be with God's people. Amen." the Bible has been God's word to His creation on the effulgence, magnificence, awesomeness, grace and love of our Lord Jesus. Isaiah ch 53 speaks of His Son 800 years before His walking upon earth to show us the Way, Truth and Life. As surely as Israel is His special people (though stiff necked and stubborn they may be!) God in His infinite grace and mercy will reconcile them unto Him and when it happens, the end of days shall be at the doorstep. And it is with bated breath of hope and expectant sense of joy that all His saints pray for this to come to pass to His glory. Shalom.
23. Study to find God's approval
Ima Bleever ,   Anytown USA   (01.19.07)
If by the "Bible" you aren't meaning some piece of it that is common to Jews and Christians, but rather the Old and New Testaments to include the life and teachings of Jesus, then I would be glad to see it taught. BUT PLEASE... be very careful of any govt program which teaches Scripture. In America, they fell in love with secularism right about the time they fell in love with carnal pleasures. They stopped teaching the Bible in schools. Now, if you raise a fuss and demand they bring back "God" to school, it's anybody's guess which "god" or religion will be brought in to fill the gap. We have some messed up belief systems running around in my country. One is called the "New Age" and its practitioners believe in "Crystal Power" and silly, ungodly stuff like that. Israel is fast falling prey to the same above disease which ravaged my homeland. You are now realistically divided into two camps: Real Jews and Secularist Humanists who sometimes pretend to be Jews. That second camp spells real trouble if they get control of teaching God to your people. WATCH YOUR REAR ENDS, Israel. Don't end up like us !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The Torah or some other Jewish Scripture teaches that the Messiah has to SUFFER. Jesus might very well be that Messiah if that scripture really exists. Does it? If it does, you had jolly well better teach your kids about Jesus. Ultimately, salvation is a very personal thing and your kids must decide for themselves. But you must arm them with all the facts or God will hold you responsible. Jesus said, "My people perish for lack of knowledge", and "Study to show yourself approved." It's hard to tell if "my people" means Jews or Christians or both. So I'm going to buy a Torah and bone up on your stuff. You might want to buy a Bible and bone up on mine. Love to all.
24. Amir Hetzroni
leon ,   Grand Rapids USA   (01.19.07)
You are promoting ignorance in the interests of absurd communicatins theory. Why must a text be "interesting" on its face ? A skilled teacher can MAKE it interesting. And ancient laws and customs bring light to our heritage and current condition. Finally, to justify this ignorance by citing the ignorance of Fr\ench students is patently absurd.
25. Bible or playstation?
enzo ,   london,uk   (01.19.07)
If you want to know why we are here today, read the Bible. The Bible is our daily bread and children should spend more time reading IT rather than playing with a playstation!
26. Boring Bible
Boring Jew ,   Sydney Australia   (01.19.07)
Oh I agree, ban boring from the classroom. Why stop at Bible tho, let's add boring maths, boring geography, boring reading. I vote for hip hop & ipods. Who is this guy who trashes his history? Unfortunately in life, the 'boring bits' are often more important than the exciting. 'Boring bits' are part of the whole. And one man's boring is another man's fascinating. We all need to know our history- both the 'exciting' and the inane. Details count. Why is it that to be cool, we have to reject the Torah. Without it there is no reason to live in Israel. So I suggest that the bible basher goes to live somewhere where he doesnt have to put up with his boring history.
27. man must not live on bread alone but every word of God
m   (01.20.07)
I believe this is a wonderful idea, because the very existence of 'Israel' is Gods witness to the world of his existence. He had it recorded in scripture that the jew would be bought 'low' for their error . who has suffered so much over the ages as the jew. but then he says he allows them to become 'objects of pity' and rescues them from their captive position. who foretold of their scatterings and regathering and also the fact that the nations surrounding them would be hostile towards them and consult together to stop them from becoming a nation. All written. living witness that the bible is the living word of God. however God has 'two witnesses' and its this other witness that israel yet does not discern.
28. Bible Lessons
Des Boxall ,   Sheffield, UK   (01.20.07)
I would have thought the bible was especially relevant to Israelis, after all it's your history even if some see it as creation myth rather than literal truth.
29. Why read the book of kings???
malcolm   (01.20.07)
Because it parallels what is going on today in the Knesset. Only today we have King Ehud , princess Tzipi and Peretz the court Jester. I wonder which Jewish kings court they are reincarnated from. Read the Book of Kings to find out.
30. confrance and relgion
mona ,   jerusalem   (01.20.07)
in our holy book ,god say that some people make conversation [it means inany aspect] without god blessing .or knowledge or a lightfullbook [the holy book ] ///it means one of these three will lead to the other two // so who is not religouse but he seeks for the knowledge and the truth he will reach to its aim also if he wan god blessing or to seek in religion ....i do not read the torah to believe on god as iam already believe strongly o god .but many times i read the tora lessons for the knowledge only .....lasly listened to one of our religouse men ,he said that the torah is the first book from the god ,,but he said that it is a history it is about the life and god orders and guids ,,but there is nothing about the last day it is the day of god judgment of all the pole ....i it true ....i do nt know
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