Opinion  Others
The bible debate
A. Hetsroni, S. Abuav
Published: 18.01.07, 23:45
Comment Comment
Print comment Print comment
Back to article
47 Talkbacks for this article
31. The Bible
F.M. Fisher ,   Milton, Fl USA   (01.20.07)
I am delighted there is a movement to bring back the Bible. If the leaders of Israel would go to the Wall and repent andd ask forgiveness, God will heal and protect his people. Again, and Again over the history, this has happened. Thank you for your paper on the internet.
32. Watchman, Finland (#21) Prophecy ≠ Christianity
Paqid 16 Netzarim ,   Ra'anana, Israel   (01.20.07)
Those who can't read Hebrew, know nothing about prophecy. Preachings on prophecy by Christians who sound knowledgeable and authoritative when, in fact, they can't even read it, spread false teaching. Christians are thrown off the prophecy track by their own insistence on "rapturing" out. The time for the "rapture" came and went with no "rapture." THEREFORE, Christians argue, they prophecies must mean something else and deferred until after the "rapture," which Christians accept as a "must." In fact, no objective reasonable person could ignore that the Holocaust was "Jacob's Trouble" prophesied by Yirmeyahu (30:7). Only when you finally recognize that marker can you even realize that you're on the wrong path, much less look for the right path. The covenant you refer to with "Rome's prince" (Dan. 9:27) occurred in 1993. Catch up. Read my book (The 1993 Covenant) explaining the Hebrew prophecies before the Hellenization of 135 C.E. You shouldn't attempt to herald what you don't understand in the mistaken belief that it will save you. It only misleads others equally gullible. Paqid Yirmeyahu Israeli Orthodox Jew Advancing Logic as Halakhic Authority Welcoming Jews & non-Jews
33. Zachary, Malaysia (#22) We're "stiffnecked and stubborn"
Paqid 16 Netzarim ,   Ra'anana, Israel   (01.20.07)
At least we can read the Bible. Obviously, you cannot read the Bible or you would know that it begins בראשית (be-Reishit) and ends י--ה אלהיו עמו ויעל (ha-Sheim his Elohim be with him) instead of depending on a post-135 C.E. Roman gentile -- pagan -- rewrite and quoting it like it's more authoritative than the original. If you were able to read the Bible you would know that Devarim -- which I'm sure you don't even recognize, you'll have to educate yourself -- precludes the notion that Yeshayahu referred to a Roman counterfeit (J*esus) and that it is only your ignorance of the history of the 2nd-4th centuries C.E. that allows you to rely on the Roman counterfeit for your pretend "salvation." It is you that needs to be reconciled and you cannot do that until you learn to relate to the Bible -- not Christian, Islamic, Mormon, J Witness and other spin-off counterfeits. Learn the history of the 2nd-4th centuries C.E. Start by reading the late Oxford historian James Parkes, The Conflict of the Church and the Synagogue. In the meantime, the prophesied times are passing you by and it is you being "Left Behind." Paqid Yirmeyahu Israeli Orthodox Jew Advancing Logic as Halakhic Authority Welcoming Jews & non-Jews
34. Ima Bleevin Roman pagans (#23)
Paqid 16 Netzarim ,   Ra'anana, Israel   (01.20.07)
I already know your NT better than your seminarians and better than you'll ever learn it. I'm a former Baptist preacher who translated the entire NT from ALL of the earliest Greek source texts up through the 4th century C.E. Between the 2nd and 4th centuries C.E. the Roman pagans Hellenized it with thousands of redactions to make it support their idolatrous religious system. Those who follow the NT are following Roman pagans, not any 1st century Jew. You can find details in my website. You're on the right track in learning the Bible. I advise getting an Artscroll Stone Edition. It has English so you don't get entirely lost but it also has Hebrew so you can begin to read the Bible (instead of the English translation substitute for the Bible). Even if it's only one word at a time, learn to read the Bible instead of somebody's idea of the translation. You've been misled by translations too long already. BTW, it isn't hard at all to tell whom the Bible is referring to as the people of Israel once one dismisses the pagan (Roman Hellenist) redactions. The Elohim of Israel is the Elohim of -- duh -- Israel. If I can help you contact me through the site. Paqid Yirmeyahu Israeli Orthodox Jew Advancing Logic as Halakhic Authority Welcoming Jews & non-Jews
35. Mona (#30) End Times in Bible
Paqid 16 Netzarim ,   Ra'anana, Israel   (01.20.07)
Indeed, the Neviyim (Prophets) in the Bible talk many times about the end times. I've written a book summarizing them, The 1993 Covenant. If you wish, you can get it in my website. Paqid Yirmeyahu Israeli Orthodox Jew Advancing Logic as Halakhic Authority Welcoming Jews & non-Jews www.netzarim.co.il
36. Sidney (#20) Scientific Archeology vs Finkelstein
Paqid 16 Netzarim ,   Ra'anana, Israel   (01.20.07)
Finkelstein's arguments are elaborations aimed at placating misojudaic (Islamic) Eyptologists for personal fame and gain. His assumptions, are shared by only a handful of renegade archeologists and based on assumptions that critical science exposes as poorly founded. (See www.tau.ac.il/humanities/archaeology/megiddo/sciencearticle.html) It's as important to expose Finkelstein contrasted with the consensus of other archeologists as it is to expose the claims of Islamic Egyptologists and other misojudaics. The notion that one should assume the primary piece of evidence false and then selectively consider only evidence that seems incongruent with the primary piece of evidence because it fits one's personal inclination is NOT science or logic, it's pseudo-scientific nonsense. If the primary piece of evidence can be PROVEN false that's acceptable. However, PROVING the primary evidence wrong is infinitely beyond Finkelstein's horizon. The best he can do is persuade the ignorant to jump on board his, as well as Islamic Egyptologists' and other misojudaics', bandwagon. If you want to represent yourself as informed then learn both sides of an issue instead of selectively learning only what suits your belief system. Paqid Yirmeyahu Israeli Orthodox Jew Advancing Logic as Halakhic Authority Welcoming Jews & non-Jews www.netzarim.co.il
37. The Bible: The root of our existence
Chaya ,   Bat Yam, Israel   (01.20.07)
Of course it should be studied! No Jew should be ignorant of it!
38. Todah! a glimmer of hope
Jude ,   USA   (01.20.07)
As a grafted in believer in your God...I can't tell you how encouraged I am, that you see the need to give the Bible a prominent place in the education of your children...Oh how we who believe long to see a country who will show the true light of His Word..Blessed is the Nation whose God is the Lord... Israel...don't go the path of America, who has become so diverse that they are standing for nothing anymore! Just to be politacally correct...ACLU vs. BIBLE Wonder what God thinks, when we think that it is more important to live in peace with each other than it is to live in His Word! Let's read the boring...who knows why the Lord thinks it is important enough to read! By Faith its worth the read... "Who knows but that you were brought into the kingdom for such a time as this" Go before the King..and expose the plans of the enemy among us!
39. Bible ? yes !
charles ,   petach tikva   (01.20.07)
Religious or not , knowing the history of our people is important . There are scientific explanations for many of what happened in our people's history . We do'nt need to believe all the religious explanations for those facts , but we have to know that they happened .
40. bible debate
itzhak ,   Baires Arg.   (01.21.07)
Mr Hetzroni. it seems you have not understood YET
41. Can't have it both ways
Roger Morris ,   Australia   (01.21.07)
Dr. Amir Hetsroni and other secular Jews can't have it both ways. Jewish claims on the land of Palestine, as I understand it, are based on the historical covenant promises YHWH made to Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, David, etc. Deny the Bible and the secular Jews' claim to the Land evaporates into thin air. you can't have it both ways !! Stick to what works - obedience to God.
42. Bible taught in school in Israel?
Dan ,   NJ, USA   (01.22.07)
I can't believe this is a debate in a Jewish State. The only reason this nation exists is through the grace of God! And yes the stories may seem boring, but if Israel's citizens want to sustain themselves they should head the messages in them. Turn back to G_d or... well read the Bible.
43. Dan # 42
charles ,   petach tikva   (01.22.07)
Israel exists not by the grace of god , but by the blood of 6000 , mostly secular if not anti religious , people who have fallen in the Independance war .
44. To Paqid - STUDY tips
Ima Bleever ,   Anytown USA   (01.22.07)
I am NOT a pagan. I am NOT a Catholic. I am a Christian. Jesus is NOT a pagan. I am not saying you are a pagan, Paqid, but I wish I had a penny for every pagan cultist who has come to my door claiming they used to be a Baptist (Christian) but are now all better since they ate the eye of a newt or something stupid. How is it that you know so much, yet know so little about the most important verse in all of Judaism? The one that states that the Moshiach Yeshuah (Messiah) must suffer. Again I will ask any learned person of Judaism to answer the question that I humbly and lovingly posted above: The Torah or some other Jewish Scripture teaches that the Messiah has to SUFFER. Jesus might very well be that Messiah if that scripture really exists. Does it? ... Well ??? Does it ??? WHERE is it? And to all you Muslims, if Jesus is a prophet, as your prophet declared, why are you ignorant of virtually every word that proceeded out of His holy mouth? And how does what you do to women honor your mother? Here is some light reading for you: http://www.answering-islam.org/Who/jesus_monogenes.html --- Back to Paqid, I believe King David was one of yours, right? He wrote the Psalms, did he not? Does not Psalms 2 refer to God's only Begotten Son? Why? Who / What was David referring to? Himself? Unlikely. He was talking about a future guy. Psalms 2 Verse 12 (a Holy number) Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him Why would King David pretend he can bless you if you kiss him? He never puffed himself up like other, bogus kings. He was more likely referring to the Moshiach Yeshuah who would come later. But if he was, then he called the guy a Begotten Son of God. Why? All sarcasm aside, I would seriously appreciate it if you would research this for me and post it to your website. Also, please post what the punishment is, according to Judaism, for rejecting the Moshiach Yeshuah. Here is a link to Zola Levitt, a "Jew for Jesus". He is wonderful and will explain in great detail how Jesus fulfilled all but the "triumphant return" prophesy of the Messiah. He also taught me that the Jewish feasts mirror the stages of development of a human embryo as it matures in the womb. Awesome reading. You will learn much: http://www.levitt.com/ Jesus said: "STUDY TO SHOW YOURSELF APPROVED." Go get 'em, tiger.
45. To # 26 Boring Jew in Australia
charles ,   petach tikva   (01.22.07)
And that's why you live down unther ?
46. Paqid
charles ,   petach tikva   (01.22.07)
Why do you add always : Israeli orthodox Jew . Is it to convince yourself you are Jewish ? I do not need this . I AM Jewish , and my family since generations . I'm NOT religious , can not believe , but to know our history is important , and Israel is my historical home , not because god gave this to us . To be Jewish is not to be religious only . You need a certain feeling , you need a background , and history that is engraved in your blood .
47. Boring? If you don't take the time.
Yaakov ,   Redding, USA   (02.03.07)
Leviticus, Kings not boring. Genesis absolutely gripping. Numbers- well so many from the tribe of - a little tedious. BUT; perhaps in the Bible study HaShem will breath understanding into one of those bright young students, who will then enable us to fully understand the Word of the Almighty. Moshe and the other writers did not make this up on their own. HaShem directed them- every jot and tittle is there for a reason. Some reasons are more obvious than others. We need to study further to find the more subtle reasons.
Previous talkbacks
Back to article