You are so disgusting. At least the modern person on ben yehuda street is not causing violence by damaging other peoples property. The 'average' person is concerned about what's going on in the world and to the people in it. It seems the major concern with you lot is protecting 'your domain'. It's not a very welcoming or neighborly way of life when you spend it trying to shut out everyone....even your own kind. Where's the goodness is what you're doing and how is it working for you? Are you getting the co-operation you need? Are you much happier burning merchandise? In ben yehuda at least this drama isn't taking place and people are generally peaceful. Shame on you - I'm sure it's not what the Jewish Law required you to do and I think it's time to read over the 10 commandments again....slowly but surely....and see if you're abiding by any of the most fundamental laws.

There are enough fake-dressed 'modest' women around who are wolves dressed in sheeps clothing - so don't kid yourself! Besides - if it bothers you that much - leave Ashkelon and go and live in a predominantly Haredi area...like Bet Shemesh or Meir Shearim. I agree that there should be limits but there are also limits to the amount of limitations of what can or cannot be worn. If you're part of the street-walker convention then obviously you're not that objective about it or you would stay in your 'safe and sound' environment instead of rubbing shoulders with the 'mafia!' You know what's interesting though? when we've taken our kids to Luna Park or to other secular place....there are the Haredim rubbing shoulders with the secular women and men, for the sake of using precious money for going on worthless rides instead of saving up to pay for weddings and bleach for spraying clothing. There is a double-standard here for sure!

Speaking of the trash.Just look at mea shearim . O boy ! This place looks worst than poorest place in Afganistan.

Seriously, why do we need Haredim. We could save a lot of Tax money without them

It strikes me as very strange, comparable to the Taliban or the "morale" police in Iran. As a woman, I cannot fathom that other women go along with this.

We know that during the era of the Prophets, sexual immorality was a serious problem, and the Israelites fell into it big-time. Nevertheless, we don't read passages where they rail at length about clothing, hemlines, or fabrics. Their priorities were different -- They criticized our people for exploiting and oppressing the poor, for failing to care for widows and orphans, and for not worshipping G-d as we ought to. Do the Haredi rabbis claim to know something that wasn't revealed by G-d to His prophets? Frankly, if we men can't handle the sight of a woman wearing bright colors, showing her ankles or elbows, or wearing a nice wig without our falling off the derek as a result, we need to look at ourselves and see what is the problem. Blaming the women isn't going to cut it any more now than it did when our ancestor did it back in Gan Eden. I'm afraid that the real issue isn't modesty at all, but, rather, control.

Always beats me why so many (I've seen them, and worked with them) single fundamentalist girls think a tight long skirt with a slit 6 inches above their knees (from the back) is more modest than a pair of baggy trousers. This is the kind of thing that makes me think of the New Testament comment on the spirt of the law and the letter of the law

Yes, let's stick those black stockings, so beloved in pornography!

You are a disgusting pig! You're thanking G-d that you're not a convert???? Did you know that all Jews were converts at some point? Either their parents, grand-parents, great-grand-parents, etc. Maybe you were born in the Jewish faith but at one time your ancestors converted to Judaism. You call yourself a haredi? You're worse than an Arab! At least arabs welcome their own converts. You're so full of hate. Did you know that only converts are really truly Jews? Because they CHOSE to be Jewish. And only converts can be 100% sure they're Jewish because they converted. If you were truly a religious person, you would know that everyday Jews bless converts. Check it up in your dusty sidur. That's because you never actually know who your ancestors were you THINK you're pure Jewish but who's to know that you are? What a despicable creature you are! What a hilul hashem. You had better make tshuva. You're probably a member of the hateful Neturei Karta.

SELF CONTROL is what these fellas LACK COMPLETELY. THAT'S the sin, and it's THEIR'S only, but they throw it on others, as that's their uncontrolled, primitive and vandalistic syle, every time. Everything you said was correct.

With all due respect to Ultra Orthodox men, if they want seperation on the bus, let them move to the back of the bus. Especially considering the fact that Haredi women do 90% of all the cooking, cleaning shopping, taking care of the children and in many cases are the sole breadwinners. So given the circumstances, it only seems fair to give Orthodox women the honor they so rightfully deserve and allow them to sit comfortably in the front of the bus with their children.

A nouveaujew/convert calling others a disgusting pig?? What a Freudian slip! Why? Do you maybe miss eating piggy or maybe you have a fress when you think no one's looking, oink oink? A real disturbed, sad, 'nouveau' reaction, so I rest my case. I'm far far from chareidi and fortunately not a convert...Why fortunately? Because I know some of these special people, been involved with them, helped them, and I think they're incredible and amazing, except for you, you sad question mark.

they can't ogle the ladies as they get on, don't you get it? I know of a 'hasa'a' to/from J'm, where the women who get on first take up the front of the bus when they can, which isn't often, with these cunning creeps, it's true. They need their thrills I guess. Like looking at naked women on their telephone screens.( My chareid sister in law phoned me, so shocked, she was shaking as she spoke. I told her if the same creep is there next time, to look out for him, and photograph him on her phone if she is able to)

I quote you from your post #13: "I think that many converts and nouveau religious have problems to sort out, and this is one of their ways of coping. Nouveau rich and Nouveau religious(nouveau Jewish too) are SO similar. They have to be SEEN (being extreme). 'True blue' chareidim give mussar quietly in their OWN kehillas, but we others never hear about it, as they never ever make a 'show' of it. They don't have this sad, bombastic and desperate need to 'be seen' to be chareidi." Here I quote your post #36: "LET ME GUESS, YOU ARE ONE OF THOSE CONVERTS WHO BECAME A HAREDI AND DON'T DOESN'T SPEAK HEBREW AND LEAVES ON THE MONEY OF THOSE WHO WORK, kol ha'kavod, AH, YOU MUST BE LIVING IN A CHAREDI AREA, YOU WANT A GHETTO? WHY IS NOT ALLOWED TO STEP IN THAT AREA, SHOULD YOU BE ALLOWED TO GO OUT, OF COURSE, YOU WILL RAISE YOUR VOICE OTHER WISE AND DEMONSTRATE, IN ENGLISH OR DUTCH OR WHATEVER YOUR ORIGINAL LANGUAGE IS COMPLAINING OF DISCRIMINATION" From what you wrote above, it is absolutely transparent that you have issues of your own with converts as well as with baalei tshuva. In your post #36 you sign yourself Hared from Yerushalayim" Didn't you mean "haredi from Yerushalyim? Or were you trying to give haredim a bad name by passing your disgusting self as one? Now in your post #73 you write " A nouveaujew/convert calling others a disgusting pig?? What a Freudian slip! Why? Do you maybe miss eating piggy or maybe you have a fress when you think no one's looking, oink oink? A real disturbed, sad, 'nouveau' reaction, so I rest my case. I'm far far from chareidi and fortunately not a convert...Why fortunately? Because I know some of these special people, been involved with them, helped them, and I think they're incredible and amazing, except for you, you sad question mark." How can you say "I know some of these special people, been involved wtiht hem, helped them and I think they're incredible and amazing…" That's not what you wrote in all your previous post, and certainly not in your last post. YOU HATE converts/baalei tshuva. You're nothing but a malicious jerk.

are not the same person, dimwit. Converts do have problems to solve( as we all do, you insettled sad person), but face them quietly and modestly. NONE of these decent people (that I have had the pleasure of being in contact with), would dream of reading or writing to Ynet , as YOU do, o mixed up one, and others too. You are the ones I'm referring to, the ones with this NEED to be heard and seen. Nouveau riche, nouveau religious, nouveau jews, many of these have problems of 'overdoing' things. The intelligent sincere ones don't solve them superficiously, on Ynet, and if they do, thats an XTRA predicament for them just like you have, ma'am.

I agree mostly with your tb , and certainly the way you wrote . Without any religious reference . So , even if you would write something i oppose in this way , no problem , we can discuss it . Have a fine day .

in you tb , as reaction to #36 , you said : are you trying to give the charidim a bad name . He has not to try , they already have , most of them at least . Regarding new converts , they are Jews by halacha , but not in their background , they have no Jewish history engraved in their blood . To fanatics as you are , i answer on the same way

Prostitution is legal there.

Ashkelon, Sderot, Ashdod, Jerusalem and hundreds of other Israeli cities are populated with beautiful Sephardi women. For some racists, that is a problem as the Sephardi women tend to have dark complexions and black hair. I agree that many Russian women are beautiful. They don't need to dress like walking advertisements for the local Russian pimps.

He's holding a " sheitel " holder, a form that holds wigs and on top of the sheitel holder is an " exclusive wig " that's being burned. They have too much free time on their hands, especially when Saturday night ends early during the winter months.

Why are you calling me a fanatic? What have I posted that spells fanaticism in your opinion? In my opinion, the author of tb's 13, 36 and 73 is the fanatic. He/she's fanatically insane where it comes to converts and newly religious. You're right that haredim already have a bad name. My mistake: The above mentioned author wasn't trying to make a bad name for the haredim for they already have a bad reputation, but he/she is definitely trying to add to their bad reputation by pretending to be a haredi (he/she signed him/herself "Hared from yerushalyim", that's what I was referring to. I fail to understand why an article concerning another of the haredim's antics needs to be grounds to attack converts and newly religious. Or do you people hate them as well as the haredim? What is the matter with you people? You hate Jews and Judaism so much that you attack people who choose to become Jewish and Jews who rediscover their faith? Can't you people get a life? Live and let live. You, Charles, never fail to attack me every chance you get. You don't bother reading what I wrote and why I wrote it, you only attack and insult me. Why don't you read that disgusting poster's tb's, I mentioned above, and let me know if yo agree with the things he writes concerning converts and newly religious? And whether these tb's have anything to do with this article?

...what about some of the more show-offy streimals?

You're losing it gal, plus, you're the one who can't read. HOW MANY TIMES!!!!13 and 36 ARE NOT THE SAME TALK BACKS. One of them is me, a completely nonchareidi doll, you fruitcake...

HOODLUMS.

Your "prose" is generally so fanatic , and that's why i call you so . It's not an insult in my eyes . Disgusting pig is one , and this you wrote . Listen , i do not hate anybody who conducts himself in a reasonnable way . You also wrote that you do not like the charidim . I hate the behaviour of some of them , the BEHAVIOUR , not the charidim as a whole . Regarding converts , i have nothing against them . I had a orthodox converted colleague in my work . In all our discussions , not specially in the religious field [ i did not want to hurt him ] i feeled a non Jewish feeling , his reactions were not those of a Jewish man . In Galut , converted people are Jews by Halacha , and thats not my problem , as i'm not religious . Here that's another thing , they are also Israelis , and that's a little bit a problem for me . That many , or most , of us had a non Jewish ancestor is certain . All depends when it was , and nobody can know exactly what and how it happened .

Leave out your last word, 'cos that's what they aren't> They are bullies and hoodlums. But MEN ? No way. 'Vilder Chayas'? Most certainly Yes. (No offence Chaya, I respect you and your opinions).

Whether it's abducting dead bodies to prevent autopsies, seperation on buses, crusades against immodest clothing...the truth of the matter remains, these radical elements represent a small minority within the ultra orthodox community. There have been some very brave Haredi individuals who have spoken out against the extremists. The time has come for the sane majority to be heard. Especially since only a very small group of fanatics have succeeded in smearing that entire sector.

Thank you, Charles. I did agree with your post and I liked the subtlety of the "robe" [which] doesn't make the monk. How true ! Probably we may oppose from time to time, mais en tout bien tout honneur, naturellement. Have a nice day too.