Opinion  Others
Convicted without trial
Uri Porat
Published: 27.01.07, 14:48
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20 Talkbacks for this article
1. Should be judged ethically not legally
Bruno ,   Haifa   (01.27.07)
Katsav is innocent until proven othewise - that's the job of the courts. However, ethically, I don't want someone for a president who is suspected of the crimes that Katsav may be charged with. For that reason alone, he should resign. His tirade this week only reinforces the man's pettiness and unsuitability for the post he now holds. I don't want a suspected rapist teaching my children, commanding soldiers, working in the police, sitting in the Knesset, or functioning as President. That has NOTHING to do with his presumed innocence in the eyes of the law. He should resign - now; his legal fights - which are his complete right - should be conducted in his time, and with his money - not that of the taxpayer. Equally, if found guilty, he should forfeit any state pension and benefits accruing to him as a former president.
2. #1 You are full of baloney
Sidney ,   USA   (01.27.07)
Presumption of innocence means that you are innocent until proved guilty. I can accuse anybody of anything, that does not make it true. The media and sleazy politicians have convicted President Katsav without a trial. That is a disgrace to the Jewish people who are sometimes desdcribed as a people obsessed with justice.
3. Judgement.
zznhl   (01.27.07)
Road sweeper, Bus driver, lawyer doctor, judge or president. In Democracy all are innocent unitl proven guilty. dont matter if you loike him or not, if hes green yellow or blue with red spots - One day it might be YOU. Try Him, If he's Guilty he deserves to have his part cut off, if not, welcome back Mr. Pres!!
4. Baloney?
Bruno ,   Haifa   (01.27.07)
The police have gathered evidence, and the Attorney General (no less) considers there may be a sufficient case to press charges - of different kinds and varying degrees of severity - involving several separate complainants - this is not someone off the street throwing accusations around blindly, but conclusions arrived at (no doubt) reluctantly, after long and painstaking work. Yes, he's innocent until proven guilty - but the suspicions are serious enough to warrant resigning.
5. gefiltefish@hotpop.com
Shmuel Addams ,   Jerusalem   (01.27.07)
Yes, Mr. Porat, you are right that in a normative democracy, a person is innocent until proven guilty, and as such, Pres. Katsav deserves a fair trial, minus the media lynch. That said, your statement "... yet because such [highly convincing] evidence was absent from Katsav's rebuke, some viewed it as libel," indicates an unfortunately common failure to understand the notion of real justice in criminal proceedings. Specifically, it is upon the prosecution to bring evidence against the accused, not the other way around!! Whether Mr. Katsav's behavior at the press conf was of presidential calibur or not, is another matter entirely.
6. I agree.
Michelle T   (01.27.07)
7. #1 & 4# , don't rush to join the lynch mob!
Ram ,   London   (01.27.07)
Whether he is president or road sweeper he deserves his day in court and innocent until proven guilty. Should the President's position be creating an embarassment to Israel , his day in court should be expedited. We have a President who may be as guilty as hell or simply a victim of some vendetta. It is hard to imagine this religious man would fight so hard to maintain his innocence only to end up embarassing himself and the entire country that he served so well. Time and justice in a proper court will determine, whatever the consequences for this man.
8. If "alef" is saying the truth why her name remainds secret?
Françoise   (01.27.07)
Why is she anonimous? Why is the media and the police hiding the identity of this woman and of all the others "witness" as well? I can believe a single word of this cane of dark allegations.
9. Lynch??
shosh ,   beit shaan   (01.27.07)
Katzav is not being lynched -- this is polemics not worth of a dignified president. It looks so so bad that he still clings onto the immunity status. He should want to go to trial and defend himself there. If he is indeed guilty my wild guess the women who pressed charges were just the tip of an ice berg!
10. #4 It is still baloney.
Sidney ,   USA   (01.27.07)
One recent Attorney General of the U.S., John Mitchell, went to jail for dishonesty. The fact that the Attorney General of Israel thinks that he has a case is the not the same as conviction in a court of law. Attorneys General in democracies are not judge and jury. A number of innocent people in the U.S. have been sentenced to death because the Attorneys General of their States, most of which individually have populations greater than Israel, convinced juries that they were guilty. Stripped of all the talk about ethics, you are behaving like a member of a lynch mob. Unlike you, I haven't the slighest idea of whether President Katsav is guilty or innocent. I fervently hope that a jury comes to the correct conclusion.
11. An intelligent talkback, thanks Bruno.
Lenny ,   Israel   (01.27.07)
12. #4 Bravo Bruno. Great talkback!
enzo ,   london,uk   (01.27.07)
13. And Again.... ABOLISH PRESIDENCY
gabriela ben ari ,   jreusalem   (01.27.07)
14. Katsav
Jeff ,   NYC   (01.28.07)
This is an Israeli show trial, a diversionary injustice, nobody is so inoccent and laws are so vague that anyone could be tried for something or certainly inconvenienced and who chooses to prosecute whom and why, did anyone look into the accuser having a Swiss bank account , Katsav is a Jewsih Doctor, a Jewsih Russian oligarch, a Scottsboro boy.
15. #8 Francoise
tma   (01.28.07)
Rape/molestation/sexual harassment victims have the right to remain anonymous. It's the same in the States. "Aleph" and the others do not have to publicly reveal themselves.
16. A question of values
Sidney   (01.28.07)
President Katsav has a long and distinguished career of service to Israel. Does this count as nothing when weighed an unknown accuser? His critics are unwilling to wait for a fair trial before punishing him. Shame on all of you.
17. #10 Baloney vs Integritey
Kate ,   Jerusalem   (01.28.07)
Little known secret - There are NO Juries in Israel. Cases are heard and decided upon before one or more judges. (And, yes, that is a shame). Further, unlike the US, our "President" is an honorary figure, with limited powers, who represents the face of Israel to the world. He is a figure-head elected entirely by other politicians (no public voting at all). Now our figure-head is accused of terrific crimes against the women he worked with. Yes, maybe he is innocent. But calls for his resignation are not a lynching, or even a baloney sandwich. This is a matter of integritey. As long as Katzav remains "President" he cannot be tried, even for the most blatant criminal behaviour. Even if he was caught robbing a bank. Katzav would have suffered much, much less had he resigned immediately and allowed justice to do it's job.
18. Maybe link his full text
Steve ,   USA   (01.28.07)
B"H One of the things I remember being addressed by Katsav is the issuance of verbal insults without cause. Here in this article we have a full description of the negative points to Katsav's speech, and not even one link to the full text of the speech! This is the beginning of slopiness that is causing significant difficulties for Israel and also Jews worldwide. If this is not delt properly, then Peres becomes President and Israel gets double its punishment. But this is why; the press is very sloppy in its accusations and those who read it are very gullable. Without people who make themselves victims, the accusation has no standing. As for my opinion on his speech, YNET, where exactly is that speech that you are referring to again? Let us at least have the same speech on the table that we are talking about quoted fully and not just regurgitated into some fantasy version. If it is Hebrew, present the full Hebrew text and also your English translation in the same article. These are the basics that are lacking here.
19. #13
chamuda   (01.28.07)
Yeah Gabriela...Let´s have a king instead...only problem is nobody is dignified enough to fill this position
20. #17 Incredible response
Sidney ,   USA   (01.29.07)
Are you sure that Israel is a Jewish state? It sure does not seem to have Jewish values. Your explanation is that even if he is innocent he must resign. By that logic, I hear and now accuse Olmert and Peretz of murder. Now they must resign and Israel will get what the polls say that the people want, a new government. I am not holding my breath for this to happen.
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