Opinion  Others
Hamas won the jackpot
Ronny Shaked
Published: 10.02.07, 17:02
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50 Talkbacks for this article
1. Excellent analysis.
Sidney ,   USA   (02.10.07)
2. Artificial divide
Jeph ,   USA   (02.10.07)
The "ideological difference" btwn Hamas and Fatah was invented by the Bush administration and Israel and perpetuated by the international media. These two parties have much more in common than many understand. It's Fatah's own military wing that has done the most damage to Israeli interests during the latest intifadah. By joining forces, Hamas and Fatah can force Israel to rethink its illegal occupation of the Palestinian Territories or face dramatic deterioration in its own security.
3. it's time
Norbert ,   Romania   (02.10.07)
I don't expect a unite and democratic answer to the so called "arab world" from the rest of the world("christian world""hindu world" and so on)But I expect the "freedom lovers" to react to the day-to-day agression from a "world" that remained in the middle ages and which posses an existential threat to the entire free world.We all waited for the palestinian tribal factions to make a step in the direction for peace.And the result:nothing new in the final speech.But more threats...And some like -of course-Russia and France salute this "accord" to continue sabotage a country member of international comunity.Maybe Israel will suffer first (like jews in WW2) but the rest -which sit and applaud now-will be next targets!!!!!!
4. Hamas- Fatah agreement
Chris ,   CA USA   (02.10.07)
The only thing that happened is "unity" between Hamas and Fatah. They didn't agree to what the international community asks for, so (I HOPE) the international community won't give them funds. It's better for them to get NO funds because I don't trust Abbas anymore.
5. One step forward, two steps back
johnpatcase ,   LACA USA   (02.10.07)
Looks like another 50 years of status quo
6. what jackpot did it win ? 100% of nothing is nothing !
redmike ,   tel aviv - Israel   (02.10.07)
None of the 3 conditions were met so it is highly unlikely that any sanctions will be lifted. Abu Mazen is now in a worse situation than he was before and the PA now risks becoming a total Pariah state. So Hamas will be the proud owners of what ?
7. And have no illusions...
(02.10.07)
...even a unity government will not bring an end to the legitimate resistance against the decades long oppression of the palestinian population
8. stick a fork in FATAH - they're done !!!
aaron ,   ra'anana   (02.10.07)
9. Good Analysis But ...
Nader ,   Ramallah   (02.10.07)
It is TIME for Israel to understand that Israel itself has brought Hamas into power becasue they have punished and fooled the palestinian people enough that they had no choice but to ellect Hamas !! Now, that an agreement has been signed between Hamas & Fahat, everyone must know that Israel will have no choice but to deal with Abbas and the new GOV. And I will tell you something that you might have not noticed in the paltform of the new GOV which I conisder as a BIG victory for Abu Mazen ; yes the new Hamas-Led gov was requested to honor past agreement signed by the PLO which we know did'nt admire niether Israel nor the US, however, Abbas has clearly requested from the new GOV to (committ) to the arab league resolutions including the Saudi Initiative which cleary calls for full withdrawal for peace and normalaized relations with Isarel. THAT IS THE CORE OF THE PALTFORM.. The difference now is; in the past Hamas has offered Hudna for full withdrawal which no one bought this offer including myself.. Now, they have endorsed the Saudi initiative which means they have endorsed a logical political horizon for the conflict, so now it's not Hudna, it's peace !! Now, that is 100% acceptable by all Palestinians, because no one will be supporting a GOV to recognize Israel for free !!! The Israelis wants the Pals to recognize Israel when Isarel is punishing people everyday, stealing the land and building the fence deep inside the west bank, keeping more than 10,000 people in prison !! So, in my view is that the ball now is in Israel's corner and Israel will not be able to coup this united Gov NOR Fatah itself can do that, simply, because if they try to do that, then its their end for sure !! And I can tell you, the Fatah-Hamas clashes have gone away and they will never, strategically, get back !! May be there might some incidents here and ther ewhich even I doubt, but Fatah HAS SIGNED (ITS OVER, THEY CANT BACK OUT).. MY recommendation to the Israel people, is to work with the GOV because otherwise more clashes and more victims from both sides and this time, and as this article says, Hamas is now fully packed by the Pals people, the Arabs and by a large number of countries around the world !! OR not at all Israel want Hamas in power, Ok then, here is Abbas, the Fatah Leader, support him and give him a full Gaza and West bank, ket him be strong in the eyes of his people !! Now, this is the only way to boost him and Fatah but Honestly I dont beleive Isarel would do that because if Israel has the good well, it could have done this in the past !!!!!
10. To # 7: Proceed resisting...
Lednah ,   Europe   (02.10.07)
50 years of resistance reduced your lands 5 times and your population 10 times... As one russian guy said (yes, those are the same russian guys which build the nukes for the persians): "The palestinians will have peace when they start to love their children more then they hate others children"
11. To # 10
Nader ,   Ramallah   (02.10.07)
Well my friend !! The Pals do love their children and they DONT hate others children !! Are you just truning the truth inside outside by saying this and is just an unjustified incitement from your side !! You are like others, ALWAYS look at the surfcae part of the conflict !!! Till today, I have never seen anyone in Israel who is welling to talk about the core of the Israeli/Pals conflict !! Israel is occupying the west bank and Gaza for decades now and ALWAYS it's the Pals are the misstaken part of the conflict !! Has Israel ever gave the Pals their own land !?! Has Israel ever stopped settlement in the west bank ?? I can understand that the Israeli army would act to defend the Israeli people againts the Pals violence, killing Pals people or arresting others, but how could you explain to me WHY the Israeli GOV has built all those huge settlements in the west bank and keeps expanding that everyday ?!?!? How is that related to to stopping the violence part of the conflict !?!? If you claim that the Israelis love others children, then let them show us their love and give the Pals children their right to live on their land and their TRUE state peacfully !! Not by giving the scattered pieces of the land like "Kebots" !! Can you till me why Israel has not built the fence on the green line boarders ?? Why they have to build it deep inside the west bank leaving hunderd thousands of Pals on the west part of the fence !?!?! What is the point here ? Can you tell me ?? So, please look at the facts carefully before you start shooting your hard words againts people that are living under the hardesr occupation ever known in the recent history !!
12. Unity Government
Moran McMahon ,   Ottawa Canada   (02.10.07)
If, as your article sayd, Hamas has won the jackpot then the International commnunity should not rush to support this government . Hamas still rejects Israel as a state, won't stop the rockets, won't stop terrorism so what has the Middle East gained? .Nothing except Millions of dollars that will now flow into this area to further Hamas' objectives. Israel better start preparing for more trouble.
13. #9- We'll see if your predictions bear out
Cameron ,   USA   (02.10.07)
As for myself, I already have my stopwatch out too see exactly how long it really lasts. Hamas, by its very nature & existence, will 'shotgun' any chance for a peaceful Palestinian govt. that seriously intends to co-exist alongside Israel.
14. Dear #9
jul   (02.10.07)
Again, blaming others! Why don't you stop blaming Israel for your own incapacity to cope with reality with dignity and pragmatism ?
15. The silver lining
Kevin G ,   Oregon   (02.10.07)
is that there doesn't seem to be a realistic chance for the Olmert government to give away the store any time soon. And let's hope we stop any more talk about "moderate Arabs". There ain't such thing.
16. #10 - Want a tissue?
Andrew ,   San Francisco   (02.10.07)
You sound like a 16 year old spoiled rich kid screaming about how terrible her life is. Hardest occupation ever? You need to get out more. The Palestinians had the highest standard of living in the Arab world thanks to the Israelis. You lost that when you launched the Intifada. You've been living for so many years on handouts and Israeli charity that you whine when you are actually expected to start doing something. The diplomatic freeze is because you elected a government that not only preaches hatred for Israel, it follows through on it. Shlait was smart in the short term - you'll get your uneducated, unproductive warriors back - but long term you proved the point that you are not the victims you claim to be. Win the battle, lost the war. Sorry to tell you, but the world is moving on and you guys are the only ones clinging to the victim story. In a few years we won't want your cousin's oil so badly, so then where will you be? Show some real pride - stop crying and grow up. You want your own self-created nightmare to end, then you can start by stop lying to yourselves. Then get a job and quit wasting everyone's time. No other people has been given as much time, support and resources, and all you've done is waste it. You guys must be so proud. Too bad you guys are drunk with so much hate that you can't see what you can learn from Israel.
17. To # 16
Nader ,   Ramallah   (02.11.07)
Andrew ; I dont need a tissue - Thanks !! one thing I can tell you is that we dont want your money !! Just get the hell out of our land , will you? You and your governoment wither a US or Israelim thought that you would buy our right in our land by your money !! NO ! NO ! NO .. That will never happen !! Just Dont worry about how we r gonna live , poor or rich, high or low standard, just get the hell out of our land !! AND look at the way you talk to me !! The fact that Im talking peacfully doesnt mean I need a tissue !!! But that clearly shows how people like you DO NOT want peace, and thats why people like me are useless with you, you need people like Hamas & Jihad to kick your ass out of the west bank and Gaza !! I can tell you, nothing will end your occupation exepct resistance !! I never supported that approach, but with people like; only Blood & Fire would make sense to you aqnd make UNDERSTAND our right in our land !!
18. cry havoc, ...
threat hunter ,   eisham, israel   (02.10.07)
... and sound the drums of war. now is really well past the time of negotiating with people who do not want peace with israel. the primitive backwards behavior of uneducated arab masses, was demonstrated this week in the disgusting Muslim decisions to riot at the Temple Mount, over yet another trivial excuse drummed up by your fanatic leaders incapable of positive developments. it is even more disgusting considering you made this riot just a couple of days after israel agreed to let the muslim waqf build a new minaret on our Temple Mount -- the first such structure to be raised there in over 6 centuries. why should you be touching that place if we shouldn't? it's OUR Holiest Site, and i'm a peace-loving, proud, regular Zionist saying that. These latest Riots at the TEMPLE MOUNT have crossed the Red Line. The Temple Mount Is STILL Ours! you have treated it like a filthy whorehouse. you will pay the consequences for it, and the sooner the better. O Israel - it is time to destroy the enemy: the anti-freedom muslim fanatics and secular arabs who support terror. let us finish off hamas, fatah, hizbullah, iran, and al-qaida (in iraq and everywhere else). for those of you like Nader from Ramallah, who claim to want peace, well, sorry man, you have proven for far too long that you are either incapable or unwilling to make the sacrifices required for peace. it is entirely Your Fault that this war lingers. you and your ilk haven't the guts to stop your own evil leaders. you just hide behind convoluted psychobabble, lies (ie: the lie of occupation, which is just your convenient excuse to justify more murder by your terrorist cohorts), and pseudo-history based entirely on false fantasy. your mindless Western friends are fascinated by the Myths of Beautiful Arabia, and they fail to see the reality of your sick culture of oppression and hatred. they are the idiots in our culture, yet at least here they are free to dissent, and i am free to scorn them, just as i am free to tell you that i prefer a hot short war right now to end your existence then to keep up this nonsense for another century of more unprovoked murder of my fellow Israelis (Jews, Muslims, Christians, Druze, Bedouin, Black Hebrews, Atheists, and all of us living here in relative peace). ... (cont'd in next message by me)
19. cry havoc, ... part 2 of 2
threat hunter ,   eisham, israel   (02.10.07)
... (cont'd from previous message by me) you palestinians claim you love your children and that we only look at surface arguments. you are so wrong, it's not even sad anymore. it is just time to remove your kind from this land. you do hate your us more than you love your own children. that you don't understand this very fact, is sad and telling about your pathetic worldview. if you loved your children so much, would you allow them to become suicide bombers? you think fighting for a country gives you that right? we jews fought for israel, and we did not use suicide bombers. and we had even less weapons than you have now, so take your stupid argument elsewhere. your foolish hamas leaders don't recognize israel? great. don't recognize us. like we care. at this point, i hope you never recognize us. it just speaks infinite volumes about your lack of wisdom and intelligence. jews didn't like the nazis, you know, and we recognized they existed. how can you even fight something you don't recognize? how can you make peace with people you don't even acknowledge? it is such a stupid statement to deny that we are here. it is a shining example of fake arab pride, of boastfulness, to think you can deny us out of existence. so i hope you also don't recognize the big bomb when it comes to flatten your terrorist leaders and all of you who support the hamas and fatah terrorists. one day, we in israel will lose our patience. and whether you recognize us or not, you and your wussy palestinian friends should be very, very afraid. so let it be war. O Israel ... it is time to kill the enemies of israel. isn't that what our government and our israel defence forces are for? olmert and his gang should have the temerity to resign, and we all know they are just hiding behind political shields until the next election. so make the war now and get this charade over with. if we wait until summer, the war will just be worse. kill the enemies of israel now. and let freedom reign. shalom.
20. response to #10 Nader
Jul   (02.10.07)
Dear Nader: I will try to respond to your genuine questions. You have to understand that peace in this region can only be achieved as a reconciliation process, not only as series of political steps supposed to give instantaneous results. EDUCATION is the main issue, and the process can only start at school. Very simple: When the State of Israel (not iserel, as you wrote) will see that Palestinian children are been EDUCATED from a perspective or a peaceful solution aside the state of Israel (and that’s the perspective of the Israeli side), it will automatically stop building walls. Look at the Oslo agreements: you’ve got 9 years to educate your children towards a peaceful future aside Israel (and that was YOUR main commitment under these agreements, remember?), but your response? Distribution of primary school textbooks teaching jihad, hatred to the Jew, and suicidal behavior, to create a new generation of monsters that will eventually destroy Israel. You abused your own children and the result is obvious to all: carnage, suicidal aspirations of an entire generation and of course, walls. It is very clear to me that unless you educate your children to accept the Jews as a sovereign people on their homeland, there will be no solution to your problems. Are you capable?
21. #11
grubie ,   montreal   (02.11.07)
If you want to look at the facts , you must agree that Israel did not always occupy and settle the West Bank . They did so in a war that your people started . Arafat started the PlO in 1964 ,before the occupation. If you are frustrated and angry , blame yourselves . The Pals are fast to follow their leaders into stupid adventures . If you start wars you have to be prepared to face the consequences . If you want peace , then stop teaching hatred to your kids ,accept Israel as a legitimate neighbor , and forget your illusions of the right of return . The ball is in the court of the Arabs and has always been .
22. Let the Brothers and Sisters Join 2gether.
1. 5 Billion Muslims   (02.11.07)
Unity of all Palstinian People is must , if palastian people wanna regain their Integrety and Land Long Live Palastinain people ( both Muslim and christian) Reality Check , World
23. #20
Joe ,   WA, USA   (02.11.07)
I just think it's said you make fun of someone's spelling then say something like "Palestinian children are been EDUCATED" in the next sentence. People online make mistakes and aside from that, where are you from and what's your primary language? I get the feeling that Nader's first language isn't English. They're probably more educated than you are. I'm a well educated US citizen and I still think it's the right thing to return Palestinian lands. Shouldn't have ever placed the manufactured Jewish state into the holy land in the first place. We would have been worlds better in all areas (Life, liberties and happiness) If we'd placed the Jewish state somewhere away from conflict and mutually beneficial to them, their neighbors and the Middle East, say South Africa. Either way this is where we're now at. Small Jewish state surrounded by a lot of neighbors that hate and fight with them constantly. Give it awhile longer and you'll finally get in a fight you won't win. Good luck "friends".
24. To : Nader , Ramallah
OT ,   Saudi Arabia   (02.11.07)
I'm very proud of you. You Must defend your nation, they (isralei) will use bad language and hurt you in many ways but remeber don't move away, and stand still., fight back.. you will be rewarded in heaven....GOD BLESS YOU!!!!
25. To #20
Casey ,   Germany   (02.11.07)
Israelis have no right to tell other nation what to do and what not to do.. Go mind your own busniess... And stop the volience, sorry but education is not the solution, the sloution is that you have to educate yourself first. (you think that Isralis r educated) then why isn't in pefect. why do they still spread hatred???why do they still use weapons, why do they teach thei childerns about hatred and weapons... you evil...
26. Hamas/Jackpot
timothy silva ,   Arcata, USA   (02.11.07)
Be fair, Hamas won the election. At some point, no matter how distasteful it might me, the will of the Palestinian people who participated appropriately in a democratic process must be honored. This is why you must negotiate and practice diplomacy, and not make war. War will destroy the fragile slip of democracy that is trying to take root in the Arab world.
27. So Why Does Anyone Talk To Abbas?
Terry ,   Eilat, Israel   (02.11.07)
It's been clear all along that Abbas is a waste of time. What has he done? Besides make speeches that are forgotten the next day, basically nothing, except of course, to schnor money from the international sucker community, including our collection of losers lead by Olmert. If I hear one more time about "bolstering" moderates, I may vomit. When was Fatah moderate? This is the legacy of the failed Oslo agreements which brought Arafat & his gangsters into power. We need to forget about peace - let the IDF negotiate with the Palestinians ........
28. Dear Casey #25
jul   (02.11.07)
Dear Casey: Thanks for the insults! While they don't make any difference to me, they say something about you. And to the point: The best thing an European like you can do to really understand the roots of this conflict is to compare between primary school textbooks from Israel and Palestine. And yes: the State of Israel will use as many weapons as it needs to keep its children SAFE (unfortunately, under their circumstances they need A LOT of that).
29. Dear Nader #17
Jul   (02.11.07)
Dear Nader: and do YOU understand OUR right to have out little state on the Land of Israel? I think that's the real root of the problem.
30. To #16 & #17
Paul ,   Los Angeles   (02.11.07)
Excelent points Andrew. Enough is enough.
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