Opinion
Gaza sewage nightmare
Martin Sherman
Published: 01.04.07, 21:53
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25 Talkbacks for this article
1. Theft Caused Collapse
Martin Sherman   (04.01.07)
Post Script to this article: According to several sources, including the Gaza city major, the collapse of the sewage dam was caused by the illegal excavation and theft of the material composing the embankment by local residents, who then sold it to building contractors in the area - allegedly for about US$70.oo a truck load.
2. This is Gross Negligence by Sharon and Olmert
Lemmings Hotline ,   sd usa   (04.01.07)
When are the Israelis going to take to the streets and demand a responsible govt. I dont remember this issue being raised as a direct result of disengagement. This is also prophetic of what would happen with another disengagement (shirking responsibility) with your enemies toilet upstream from your drinking fountain. Drink up Israelis, you deserve it.
3. Gazan Chupp-Luppian Strategy
Reuven Brauner ,   Raanana, Israel   (04.01.07)
First of all, an excellent article. The Israeli slang word that comes to mind about all this business is "chupp-lupp" (the ch pronounced like in achtung). The Israeli retreat from Gaza was chupp-lupp and Arab handling of their affairs is chupp-lupp. It means that there is no real planning, the consequences are not thought out and there is no backup plan in "the event that". This is how the Arabs tend to do things and how we do sometimes, as well. It is an attitude problem. "Just do it" and consequences be damned! Gaza is a timebomb, make no doubt about that. If it doesn't explode, it will implode. It cannot sustain itself since it is boxed in, with nowhere to go or grow. It will simply collapse under its own weight of incompetence. In the process, it will cause great damage to Israel.
4. piping stolen to use for rocket launchers
1+1=2 ,   USA   (04.01.07)
Just the way metal from stop sign and other traffic posts are stolen for this same purpose. And then people wonder why there are problems with sewage and traffic infrastructure in Gaza...
5. Why wont the Swedes and Euros fund a treatment plant?
Scott   (04.02.07)
Why are we talking about a pipeline to dump sewage into the sea? Haven't the Swedes and Euros got any brains EITHER? What's going on? I disagree that this stupidity would not be able to be stopped purely on ecological grounds. As for the anecdotes of the Pals initiating the collapse of the dam by removing the earthworks - well, nothing surprises, does it?
6. Just remember one thing Israel!
Y ,   N   (04.02.07)
The palis will always try to hurt you and they will always blame you for everything.
7. Sewage
Dave ,   Australia   (04.02.07)
For centuries households have had individual septic systems that are easily built. Even though most western countries now have households connected to community sewage works,there are still thousands of the old 'septic systems' in use. Rural Australia still have them, and the work efficiently. You can get modern ones complete and ready to install, or you can easily with just a little manual labour make your own. Surely if the arabs really cared about their own health they would have their strong healthy men dig and make these systems instead of them digging tunnels for nefarious purposes. Time for them to take responsibility for their own welfare, they do not need foreign money to build a septic system, just hard work for a short time. Come on arabs, get with the programme and pull yourself up by your own bootstrings instead of charity, the solution to this one problem is entirely in your own hands.
8. Hamas diverted pipes from sewage projects to Qassams
Zvi ,   USA   (04.02.07)
THIS is why the Palestinians have accomplished nothing vis a vis sewage treatment. It has nothing to do with Israeli pressure. http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?c=JPArticle&cid=1171894568749&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull
9. This article and Brauner's Response Stinks.
Jeff ,   Cherry Hill NJ USA   (04.02.07)
10. sewage nightmare
Israel Zwick ,   nyc   (04.02.07)
This is why it is hard for me to understand why so many Israelis still support the establishment of a Palestinian state, at least verbally. Don't they anticipate how such a state would function, regardless of the terrorist possibilites. Usage of natural resources is a major issue, and there are many others as well.
11. simple fact
a reader ,   nyc   (04.02.07)
Martin Sherman appears to be very confused. It would indeed be problematic for Israel if the Palestinians were to pump raw sewage into the sea. But the Swedish-financed project he refers to is for the construction of a sewage TREATMENT plant that would clean the water before discharging it, and entirely routine matter. http://www.ochaopt.org/documents/OCHA_BeitLahia28Jan04.pdf It is true that the Palestinians at one point contemplated reducing the dangerously high water levels at the Beit Lahiya plant by pumping raw sewage into the sea but this was borne of desperation because Israel had been preventing the construction of the desperately needed new treatment plant for years. When the Palestinians presented Israel with the choice -- let us build the treatment plant we need or we will be forced to pump sewage into the sea to prevent a disaster at Beit Lahiya -- the compromise was that the Palestinians would be allowed to build only one extra pool at Beit Lahiya, hardly enough to prevent the inevitable disaster.
12. Sewage pipeline
David Obrecht ,   Amarillo, USA   (04.02.07)
Why not offer to build a sewage treatment plant to treat the water before it is piped out. Properly treated it could conceivably be recycled, it would pure again.
13. On Confusion (#11)
Martin Sherman   (04.02.07)
Dear Reader, NYC (#11) Thank you so much for trying to help clear up my "confusion" as you put it. Unfortunately however, your attempt seems a little disingenuous for several reasons. The interesting document you provide is dated almost two years PRIOR to the disengagement - which presumably means it was based on even earlier studies, when realities were very different. Since then much has happened – something which you appear to steadfastly ignore. You ignore that it is emerging that the storage facility did not overflow because of insufficient capacity but that its bank collapsed due to illegal excavation by local inhabitants and who then sold the material to building contractors You further ignore the fact the area of North Gaza has, since disengagement, become a launching-pad for rocket attacks against Israel and hence Israel has been compelled to return fire, making any civilian construction in the area difficult (or are you suggesting the Palestinian terrorists should be allowed to assault Israel with impunity? http://www.smh.com.au/news/World/Gaza-sewage-sweeps-through-village/2007/03/28/1174761509357.html You also ignore the reports that piping intended for civilian construction in Gaza was acquired by terrorists for the manufacture of rockets and that arrests have in fact been made in this regard. http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1171894568749&pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull There is undeniable human misery in Gaza, but underlying reason for this seems to be the equally undeniable inability and/or unwillingness of the Palestinians to establish any semblance of a stable productive civil society – in spite of massive international aid and sympathy. The sooner this is acknowledged the sooner alleviation of this suffering will be facilitated
14. israil knew the solution of this problem but it was late
lili ,   khan yunis   (04.02.07)
israil want the world to cut the food from palastinians // so there will not be sewage to treate // i think it is the priliant thinking and stratigy of our cuosons
15. And most of our water sources will be polluted
Ilan ,   Ariel   (04.02.07)
Return of Judea and Samaria will be an abandonment over 60% of Israel's water sources which stand to be polluted sewage or exhausted by uncontrolled drilling. But not to worry as since we stand to get pushed into the sea ain any case, we might as well get used to drinking salt water.
16. Gaza Sewage Dam
GregS ,   Renton, WA, USA   (04.02.07)
Ain't disengagement grand? The Pals strip the dam to sell the supports, and now Israel is faced with an eco disaster. What more wonders does the 'religion of peace' have to offer the gullible? G.W Bush has issued Israel a huge sh*t sandwich from which she will have to take a bite! G.S.
17. SEE #7 - SO TRUE DAVE.
Scott   (04.02.07)
18. changing the subject (on #13)
a reader ,   nyc   (04.03.07)
The main point of Sherman's article is to warn/speculate about a potential Palestinian 'doomsday weapon' of pumping raw sewage into the sea, thus contaminating Israeli waters. The argument is based on the claim that the Palestinians, with the support of the EU, planned to pump raw sewage into the sea. Sherman does not mention -- nor can he produce evidence to contest -- the fact that the PA/EU project was to build a sewage TREATMENT plant, not to pump untreated water into the sea. This contradicts the main premise of the article, and demonstrates that it is nothing more than an attempt at scaremongering. It also represents a slander of both the EU and the PA. Even if one accepts all of Sherman's other claims about supposed Palestinian culpability for the disaster as true, that doesn't change the fact that his article is built on a demonstrable falsehood.
19. # 18 Staying on the subject
Martin Sherman   (04.03.07)
Dear Reader, NYC 1. Pls note the "claims about supposed Palestinian culpability for the disaster" are not Sherman's (i.e. mine), but those of Gazian officials as reported by the international media. 2. If you were an advisor to the Israeli government, would/could you in good faith recommend that it assume that the pipeline, planned in the pre-disengagement period, would only convey properly treated sewage during the post-disengagement period, especially in light of : a. The Palestinians proven incompetence in maintaining their infrastructure, which among other things led to the recent disaster (The Malignant Neglect Caveat). b. The unswerving resolve of the Palestinians to inflict harm on Israel – even when one would think that enlightened self-interest would dictate a different course of action (Malevolent Design Caveat). In pondering these points remember that treatment of sea-bound effluents that the maritime currents carry northwards towards Israel is not an activity that has a high priority for the Palestinians. In fact one might even consider it more an Israeli interest than a Palestinian one – which raises the question why, even in more congenial conditions than the present ones, a Palestinian regime would want to allot resources to treat sewage for which there is no apparent use other than to preserve Israeli ecological interests. (Note that if the sewage was used for agricultural irrigation it would, by definition, not be conveyed to the sea anyway).
20. laughable
a reader ,   nyc   (04.03.07)
The point is very simple: The subject is that the article is based on a glaring mistake of fact. Instead of admitting this fact, Sherman is saying it doesn't matter: Even if Israel allowed the Palestinians to build and operate the EU-financed sewage treatment plant, the Palestinians would still not treat their own water, and pollute their own seacoast just so that they can pollute Israel's coastline too. This HYPOTHETICAL scenario, besides being extremely implausible, is a distraction from the ACTUAL FACT that it's Israel committing ecowarfare against the Palestinians, not the other way around by dumping garbage and untreated sewage in the West Bank: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4081672.stm Of course when Israel is accused of ecowarfare it's either untrue, a legitimate response, accidental, or marginal; but when the Palestinians and the EU come up with a plan to build a sewage treatment plant we have to be afraid that the Palestinians might not use it and instead pollute waters used by both peoples. It's these kinds of double-standards that make Israeli arguments so difficult to take seriously for the rest of the world (who must be anti-semites of course).
21. Martin: SPOT ON
gabriela ben ari ,   jerusalem   (04.04.07)
U said it loud and clear
22. # "the reader" u seem to read but do not understand a word
gabriela ben ari ,   jerusalem   (04.04.07)
23. High Court of Justice Petition
Marc Zell ,   Jerusalem, Israel   (04.07.07)
The author is, as usual, squarely on the mark. He might have mentioned the fact that the last High Court of Justice Petition filed against the Disengagement was filed by the author of this comment in the name of several Israeli academics who sought to have the Government respond whether it took into consideration the ecological threat posed by its hasty and ill-considered withdrawal/destruction plan. Relying on expert opinions by the country's leading oceanographer and water experts, we explained the risk posed by turning over the sewage treatment facilities to the Arabs in Gaza without proper planning. The High Court summarily dismissed the challenge as "untimely." Go figure.
24. it's not a new problem
Gerry ,   Mahopac, NY, USA   (04.07.07)
Israel's water company issued a public tender, some 20 odd years ago, to create a storage pool lined with EPDM, for the proposed water treatment facilities. If it had been done, the walls would not have collapsed. Carlisle Rubber supplied the first lining for the storage pool of the Dead Sea Works in 1964 and an additional 3000 sq. mtr. pond was added in the 80's.It's still functioning. The contractor from Jabalya who "won" the Gaza project couldn't do it and tried to get an Israel contractor to sub-contract the project, but couldn't. That's probably why the 'walls' were unlined and collapsed. Ask Mehkorot if they remember.
25. what a precise and fantastic HUMANITARIAN article
oritush   (04.11.07)
this is not talking about politics or hate or even security threat to Isr-this is a wonderful humanitarian article that takes into consideration FACTS that have to do with water and polution and coastline. I m very impressed with this subject cause it wasnt something i even thought about-ever! we r so busy dealing with kassams and terrorism-we forget all the other horrible things that fell on us(and will fall in the future)as the result of girush from gush gatif. PS: the "reader" is an ignoramus and even though he can read he obviously has no ability to process the info.
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