Opinion
The Saudi danger
Uri Elitzur
Published: 08.04.07, 00:07
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44 Talkbacks for this article
1. The is NO WAY Israelis and Jews will accept this
Sam Weinstein ,   USA   (04.08.07)
The is NO WAY Israelis and Jews will accept withdrawal to 67 borders and also return of refugees. Left Wingers are under the blind assumptions that Israel will have lasting peace this will not occur The saudis want it all. Israel is not a Israeli country it is a Jewish country for all Jews before you say I am a arm chair critic. I was in the 73 war. Most Israelis and Jews will never allow this to occur.
2. The Sauidi Surrender Plan fits nicely with Olmert & Livniiv
malcolm   (04.08.07)
The Saudi Surrender Plan fits perfectly with Kadimah and Livni & Olmert , who are the masters of SURRENDER. 1) Katif Surrender. Livni's active role gave Sharon the votes 2) Surrender PA elections to Hamas with the help of Carter & Rice 3) Surrender to Hizbollah with the help of the French & Rice 4)Establish a "committee" to surrender the Golan to Assad And now... 5) Talk of accepting the Saudi Surrender Plan
3. think again # 1
papa jay   (04.08.07)
4. SAM you're missing the point
EGW ,   vancouver canada   (04.08.07)
You forget the "division" of Jerusalem, which involves HUGE matters.
5. the only way forward
sara   (04.08.07)
Time for israel to come to the table in real earnest
6. Sharon's Legacy: Leftist Suicidal Government
Jerry ,   NYC, USA   (04.08.07)
all so that he could escape punishment for his personal corruption. Olmert, Livni, Mofaz = All power hungry corrupt skunks who sold their country out for virtually nothing.
7. saudi and omert
hymie ,   thornhill, canada   (04.08.07)
Olmert will accept 67 borders and limited right of return for arabs because he is fearful of another intifada and is persuaded by his famiy that demographics will eventually destroy Israel.
8. #3 I have no idea what you are trying to Say
Sam Weinstein ,   USA   (04.08.07)
#3 Speak english no riddles I have no idea what you are trying to Say
9. #4 Sorry My Bad
Sam Weinstein ,   USA   (04.08.07)
#4 Sorry My Bad I also would be against the division of Jerusalem and giving it to the Arabs Jerusalem as the Capital of Israel not of the Palis
10. Back to square one?!
Daniel ,   Israel   (04.08.07)
Now with Saudis! Why waste our time even on passing remarks by our Government officers? Arabs are beating same drums; to the tune Israel decided not to dance. This is shear waste of time; simply ignore them; we have other important things to attend to.
11. My resonsponse to the Saudia's
(04.08.07)
If I was PM I would send a few F16 to Mecca.
12. daniel israil
hana ,   jerusalem   (04.08.07)
sorry my friend you are wrong ..the right is ...israil was beating the drums all the world were dancing except the arabs .. now may be the arab will beat the drums .. but iam sure one day all the world will dance ,may be israil will not // but sure at that time the drum of israil will be broken dry .no one will listen to it .. my friend drum is the propoganda or it is the pr // the dancing is the agreement to the tunes .. now what is not listened well is israil tunes // but sure in an empty space which is no voices is listened //dancing will continue .. iam sorry my friend to tell you that israil want this empty space to let no dancing ./// but sure evry one can dance without a tune nor a drum even in an empty space .. befor the arabs dance witout tunes but do you think that israil can do it alone in this world // iam suspect // and it is better to israil to suspect also .. salam my friend daniel from israil
13. #10 List of Things Israel will attend to...
Hani ,   Palestine   (04.08.07)
1) Continue the singlest largest, most cruel occupations in modern history. 2) Continue to subjugate 4 million Palestinians, occupying their towns and hills, and imposing on them 800 suffocating checkpoints, killing their economy, livelihood, and causing them psychological problems. 3) Judaize Jerusalem and build more settlements. Sure, Israel has always been too busy for Arab peace overtures. They just got excuses (Qassams, resistance, and Hamas' charter). See you soon on the field.
14. ISRAEL IS NOT FOR SALE! NOT BY SAUDIS, AMERICANS OR EU!!!
(04.08.07)
15. 13 Hani when are you evacuating the occupied city of
freedom ,   canada   (04.08.07)
Bethlehem. When is the corrupt PA leaving.... Thanks in advance for your answer.
16. Israeli intransigence
Fahd Najad Alotaibi ,   Makka, S. Arabia   (04.08.07)
Our writer has worked himself into a corner of aggression , desire for peace , and duping himself into denying others their right .You noticed the Iranians cornere the old imperial power into submission .You are easier to deal with evenenually unless you are sudennly awake to respect others .
17. NO SURPRISES!!!
al mann ,   Jerusalem, Israel   (04.08.07)
The children of Ishmael will never give up to achieve their goal--the destruction of the children of Israel. It is too bad that those in power here do not understand the history of the children of Israel. They lack the proper education and their concept of 'faith" is below the poverty level. Therefore, the leadership, lacking any philosophy of purpose or ideology, seeks to achieve a never existing peace. The peace of the sons of Ishmael is the total elimination of the children of Israel and its country given by a power greater than any in the universe.. The children of Esau are also involved in this plot. We have only one ally. When are we going to learn who it is? What will it take for us to cry out and finally be redeemed from the onus of the nations of the world who seek our destruction?
18. saudi
saudi   (04.08.07)
only leftwing kadima and selfhating jews can accept the saudi plan , which only will lead to Israel's distruction
19. To #13
Adam ,   Jerusalem, ISRAEL   (04.08.07)
Listen, for one thing, there are 1.35 million non Jews in territory administered by the state of Israel (Areas A and B/ the West Bank) not 4million. Gaza isn't under our control. We blockade it's air and sea space and provide it's services cause you're too stupid to do it yourselves. That land, ie the West Bank is NO MAN's LAND from a national perspective. Individuals who call themselves 'Palestinians' own less than 42% of it and that can be called 'Palestinian land' but aside from that it has never been under any recognized national sovereignty since Turkish rule. Secondly, Jerusalem has been the holiest city and the capital city of the people of Israel for thousands of years. It has NOTHING to do with Islam from a religious point of view. There were no mosques there at the time of Mohammed's death and the Temple Mount was used to dump garbage at that time. If Mohammed accended there then it was amongst a pile of poo and garbage. For the last thousand years, your people were one with other Syrians and were known as 'Shamis' . You have as much national and specificlly local identity as 'Kosovans' who are Albanians that live in the Kosovo region of Serbia. We do not 'Judaize' Jerusalem, we are undoing some of the much evidenced Islamicization of Jerusalem such as the Jordanian destruction of the jewish quarter and expulsion of Jews from the rest of the old city along with the driving out of JEws from the rest of the old city during British rule. Nearly all of Jerusalem's neighbourhoods outside of the old city walls were Jewish founded including 'Silwan'.
20. Destruction
abd ,   Canada   (04.08.07)
I hope the article and the comments do not reflect the views of most Israelis. The writer talks about not withdrawing from all of the west bank and giving East Jerusalem back to the arabs, the right of return is something both the left and right in Israel agree so i will leave it. If Israel doesnt want to give all of the W. Bank and Jerusalem then why the hell would they ever talk about peace, i also dont see the reason they are so upset with Hamas hehe its simple its a declaration by Israelis that there is going to be an everlasting state of war between arabs and Israelis thats what Hamas preach. If Israel doesnt accept proposals by rulers who are seen by their people as traitors and agents of the west, then i think they should ready themselves for war when these rulers leave which is soon. The war wouldnt be like 67 or 73 it would be more like the one in lebanon but instead of the 5000 Hizballah a couple of million would be a better calculation. The only hope for Israel to continue existing is to give PART of the palestinian stolen rights and try to assimilate into its surroundings which is hard since Israel acts like a colony of europeans in the middle east, anything less means more wars that will not have the same result as the wars that made Israel, and after that mr. Uri i assure you would be pleading the arabs to accept this initiative.
21. #13 Do you take yourself seriously?
Hani ,   Palestine   (04.08.07)
What you wrote is diatribe, plain and simple. Saying Palestinians have no legal right or claim over Palestine is like saying Brits have no legal claim over London. Have you forgotten that up until 1880s there were a few thousand Jews in Palestine, whereas there was hundreds of thousands of ARABS? Are you ignorant of the fact that Palestinians are of a variety of races? Themselves decendants of Arabs, Assyrians, Armenians, Jews, Europeans, Turks, and even Africans, a dynamic genetic collective of the various empires which conquered the area? It just astonishes me to see you babble about "pure" Jewish claim over Palestine, we all know that Europe felt guilty after 1945 and decided to give you another people's land as a compensation. Also don't forget the illegal jewish immigration, without which "ISRAEL" could not exist today! Now swallow your pride and take a long, hard look in the mirror. If this is image doesnt change in time, your existance as "an exclusive Jewish" state (founded illegally anyway) will not last past 2020 guaranteed. You're in the Arab's neighborhood, either you behave and treat your neighbors in a civilized manner or you will vanish. No one will shed tears.
22. Saudi Wahabi theology
chaim ,   miami beach usa   (04.08.07)
I find it amusing that any sane knowledgeable person can extrapolate just how the Saudi perceive Peace that it should be given any thought or consideration. To understand any society we must look into their reverence of the human body after its death. According to Saudi customs the body is buried in the desert sand dunes without any markers or indications where it was placed so that there is no physical remembrance or indication of that person existence, it is as if that person never existed. The so called Saudi plan for Israel is for it to be so totally destroyed that all traces or remembrance or its existences should remain. All the world knows that this travesty of offering peace by the Saudis is just their way of blinding the masses to their true intention, what they cannot obtain by the force of arms use the age old and tried method of lying, subterfuge, misleading methods of which devious method they have perfected into an art form. At this junction, I find the truly idiotic Israeli public, desire to rush into a headlong collective suicidal pact unbelievable, by failing to change their leadership who are publicly for whatever personal nefarious reasons ready and willingly and encouraged by traitors some of which are even family members, to totally eradicate even the memory of a uniquely Jewish country and all for what a drug induced dream that Islam which does not even have within it the word “Peace” will somehow create a mindset that is totally foreign in their collective beliefs.and grant their historical sworn enemy a hand of true peace
23. Amazing how the Right has sold out!
Steve ,   USA   (04.08.07)
There was a day when leftists like Golda Meir and Yitzhak Rabin swore there was no room for a third state between the Mediterranean Sea and borders of Iraq; there already was a Palestinian Muslim Arab state in Jordan (the original area of Britain's Palestine Mandate had included the territory of the Hashemite kingdom). "There is no room for a third," Meir told Richard Nixon. "The Palestinians must find the solution to their problem together with that Arab country, Jordan, because a "Palestinian State" between us and Jordan can only become a base from which it will be even more convenient to attack and destroy Israel." That was was the Israeli left, September 1970. Look how low Benjamin Netanyahu and his Likud party have sunk. All the compromise. All the suicidal concessions to our enemies. All this gradualism and incrementalism. When will it end?
24. Hani #21 Who has legal right over Palestine?
Steve ,   USA   (04.08.07)
You wrote: "Saying Palestinians have no legal right or claim over Palestine is like saying Brits have no legal claim over London." The Norman conquest of England was the invasion of the Kingdom of England by William the Conqueror (Duke of Normandy). In 1066 the Normans conquered the aboriginal Anglo Saxons. Who then has the legal claim over London? White Europeans conquered, dispossessed and ethnically cleansed Native Americans in North America. This is the history of nations. Who has the legal claim to North America? Jews conquered the native inhabitants of Palestine --- many of these Arabs were recent immigrants in search of jobs provided by the Jews. Who has the legal claim over "Palestine?" Jews also believe God gave them legal title to the Holy Land. The Qur'an also maintains this. Moses said to his people: "Remember, my people the favour which God has bestowed upon you...Enter, my people, the Holy Land which God has assigned or you. Do not turn back..." Surah 5:20 Who has legal right or claim over Palestine, the Holy Land?
25. All Arabs want to live in S. Arabia
Shuki ,   Haifa   (04.08.07)
Ask any falastinian if he wants to live in S. Arabia. They all will tell you YES, YES. The Canada is a distant second. S. Arabia MUST alow return of all Arabs to their Motherland.
26. Hani #13 and #21
yosef ,   tel aviv   (04.08.07)
I agree with you, there will be a war and you will try to destroy us (as you did throughout history including 1929, 1948, 1956, 1967, 1973, 1982 and 2000). If you succeed no one will shed a tear. I therefore am not trying to convince you of anything, I just cant make sense of some of the things you've said. Could you explain? 1. #13: "most cruel occupation in modern history". Huh? As in crueler than the Arab occupation of the Darfour? The Iraqi occupation of Kuwait? Under Israeli rule, the Arab standard of living was higher than any Arab country (except Lebanon under the Christians) with lower infant mortality, higher standard of living, longer life expectancy and better education. If you would be so kind would you tell of a less cruel occupation? 2. Why do you think Qassam rockets are meaningless? Why do you think that the Hamas charter that calls Jews monkeys and pigs meaningless? Why do you think "resistance" by Arab heros who heroically shot the pregnant Tali Hatuel and her daughters (Hila, 11, Hadar, 9, Roni, 7, and Merav, 2) is meaningless? If you believe morally Arabs are allowed to rip apart to men and dance with their intestines on television, why can't Israel set up a roadblock causing Arabs to come to work 30 minutes later to prevent another such act of "resistance"? Do you agree that Jews are monkeys and pigs? 3. Where did you come up with the Europeans feeling guilty about 1945 and giving the Jews a land? Do you mean the British commanders of the Jordanian legion? The European arms embargo on Israel? For example during 1948, 1967 and 1973 when Israel was under attack by Arab countries who said the purpose of the war was destroying Israel? The only support the West gave Israel came because the Arabs chose to ally themselves with the Soviet Union. 4. What "illegal" immigration? After the destruction of the Turks by the British, the League of Nations gave the British the right to rule the land of Israel to set up a homeland for the Jews in what was then an empty land. The British gave more than half of the mandate to the Arabs to set up Jordan and made it illegal for Jews to immigrate while encouraging Arabs to immigration. Not one Jew needed to be murdered in the Holocaust as according to international law they should have been allowed to Israel. 5. From your writing at the very least you want to Israel to revert to the pre1967 borders and to agree to the immigration of 4-8 million Arabs into these 1967 borders. What would you want to do with the Jews?
27. 13,21,24,26 Time Will Tell
Roch ,   Albuquerque NM, USA   (04.08.07)
Everyone claims that God gave them this land. No one believed that the Jews would ever re-occupy this land, but here they are. And with every attempt to get them out, they got more. God promised alot more land than they currently occupy and in the end, time will tell. It belongs to the Jews and any Jew that gives up that land have no authority as it is not theirs to give up but God's. If I am wrong then time will tell. But if they grow and prosper then the truth is revealed.
28. # 26
papa jay   (04.08.07)
so now it's down to comparing which occupation is most cruel? arent you ashamed that you even occupy another nation let alone say hey, we do have a little occupation, but it's very tiny winy, and there are many in the world that are must worst. what kind of person are you? to the rest of the stuff your write about 2-99 or what ever number u got to, you need to see the conflict with palestinian eyes, the palestinians need to see it with israeli eyes. until then no one will live in peace. see you remember well how many israel children died, but u dont have any idea how many pal children died, because one, u dont give a rats ass, and 2 u think their death was saving jewish lives. remember the brave IDF officer in gaza that confirm a kill by firing 27 shots in the dead body of a 12 year old palestinian girl. this man is free today. israel is a very young country. 60 years is nothing in the history of that land. jerusalem has changed hands in the past 2000 years many times. make peace, and i'm sure you agree you will have your country longer, make war, and i'm sure it will be shorter. you can count on that, that is what the history books say. Peace.
29. 28 Papajay how is the Darfur disaster going.
freedom ,   canada   (04.09.07)
Where is the UN and all of your emotion in regards to the christian cleansing of the Sudan. Have a nice day.
30. to yusef and all of the israilites like him
yamna ,   jerusalem   (04.09.07)
do not accept ,do not listen .do not negotiate to any araby or suodi or american or europian or any thing // but the bad is to be angry of any other speech or doing or any thing // you have the freedom not to listen or accept // but not to close any mouth of the others or tide their hands / and hi hi hi israil /do not be angry of any others
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