Jewish Scene  Tali Farkash
Racists among us
Tali Farkash
Published: 20.04.07, 07:49
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171 Talkbacks for this article
1. What? Browner Is GOOD!
Reuven Brauner ,   Raanana, Israel   (04.20.07)
“Yemenites are worse than Sephardim, because they are browner”. Some Yemenites might be browner, but not all Brauners are Yemenites.
2. Tali, I ask you a second time...
Ariel ,   Sydney, Australia   (04.20.07)
Will you marry me? Most of the Sydney Jewish Community is Hungarian (even though I am not)...
3. CODSWOLLOP
Eliyahu H ,   israel   (04.20.07)
THAT'S COMPLETE RUBBISH TAL AND YOU KNOW IT IS SO STOP TRYING TO FIND FAULTS IN CHAREIDIM BECAUSE THAT'S ALL YOU SEEM TO BE DOING ON YOUR COLUMN.I'M SEFARDI AND HAVE NEVER FELT ANY LESS DIFFERENT OR INFERIOR TO ANY ASHKENAZI ANYWHERE
4. Everybody wants to be brown till the police show up.
Easily tan   (04.20.07)
If being brown is a crime than I'm going to jail.Racism is also rampid in the professional world.
5. Mrs. Farkash is right
Daniel van Dalen ,   Jerusalem   (04.20.07)
She is completely right. I myself think it is disgusting how some people think about sefardim. I was confronted with such a case myself recently. I myself have a very European look, but a slightly Asian face (eyes), so it seems (I am of Polish and German background). I also know a girl who looks really dark, while her parents and siblings are all very white. They are Ashkenazim also. Somehow, she turned out differently. :) But it looks fine, believe me.. :)
6. O My G-d, this racist subject again !!!
ben ,   singapore   (04.20.07)
During the 9 /11 at one of the airport in the US, I was isolated for security clearance, they strip me naked and i was standing like a porn star at that room.Now that i think about it the CCT and the surveilance room must have had a show of the time . There came four officers, one asked if i was a muslim? Well it is just because I had a circumcised one. Then another came in ask if I was a Arab or Persian. The third came in asking if I am a Israeli. He said...." This one is a jew he said ,Shalom while I was still naked .The last one was smart he asked if I was a Singaporean because he saw my passport. Later the show ended with an apology they were apologetic to find out I am a jew. Guess what did they give me first, the Kippah ! but not my cloths :)))) I only got to wear my cloths after they were fully screened after clearance. Look do you think the American Airport Officers were being Racist or are the American Jews doing their job ? My understanding ,well the American Airport Officer ( jew or gentile ) were only doing their job. Later when I returned home in Singapore I received a special call by phone,the jewish officer thanked me for being co-operative and was worried if I would stir a diplomatic complain .I told him to go home peacefully. We are everywhere, some rose of sharone, some lilly of valley, some etrog of many colors but all should stay as one . Well my house is still screaming that the insident was a racist act. I have forgotten about the insident yet they are very remorsefull. Nice to be standing with the Arabs, for they were also standing naked along me. I saw the prejudice the worls had developed against the chuildren of Ishmael. I only recieved the minimum at that airport for being children of Yisarel. I hope this dosent happen to me at Ben G Airport.
7. Hooray for Sephardim
Kiwijew ,   Downunder   (04.20.07)
I am a pure white Aryan looking Jew. And a convert, so that's understandable. What I don't understand is how a semitic people from the ME can be whiter than white. Some mixing with goys perhaps? Yet my gorgeous sephardi husband, a dentist, looks to me like his family havebeen Jewish all along. Didnt the Nazis and the goys invent this rascist crap? Why is it that Ashkenazim want to perpetuate it. I live among Maori, Polynesian, Asian and European. I would never get away with the rubbish these Ashkenazim spout and it is mainly confined to the 'Holy' Land- we don't hear it in the diaspora. We are all Jews- white, brown, proselyte. Where did Hashem say that one was worth less in a minyan? Can you marry a Jewish Yemenite if you are German and Jewish?. Jewish Law says yes- so these attitudes are an affront to Hashem. Shabbat Shalom, I pray they will wake up.
8. Lashon hara
Bretzler ,   Zurich   (04.20.07)
This is bad lasho hara -- is this paper supposed to represent the majority of ashkenazi (religious) jews, statistically speaking? Shame on you!
9. Secular Resists Amongst Us
Tzvi Fabian ,   Jerusalem, Israel   (04.20.07)
While your story is tragic, I’ve personally heard countless racist slurs and jokes from secular Israelis. I’ve heard secular Israelis refer to their Persian Jewish brethren as miserly (nothing could be further from the truth in my experiences), which is doubly tragic because gentiles used this stereotype to persecute all Jews for centuries. I’ve heard far too many jokes from secular Israelis about flat-headed and doltish Georgian Jews. I saw with my own eyes a massive banner spanning a major Israeli highway that read, “Kill All the Dasim (Ultra-Orthodox)”.
10. Tali is purely malicious -
Shalom   (04.20.07)
Two 3 year-olds have a childish conversation - probably if their parents had been there, they would have corrected their lashon hara. Tali has been brought in by YNet - probably for some inflated salary - to besmirch the Hareidi world. My sons are Sephardim (mixed marriage!!!) They learn in good yeshivas with ashkenazim, sephardim and yemenites. If there are problems in the world - as indeed there are in all sectors - both Jewish and non-Jewish, lashon hara (malicious speech) will not improve matters. BTW - for all those who keep wanting to marry her - she's married!
11. This Ashkenazic & Sephardic problem pertains noticeably
David E. ,   Jerusalem   (04.20.07)
in OUR ISRAELI GOVERNMENT. There are many instances of this problem. What is the ratio between Sephardic and Ashkenazic MKs in the government? There are only a few Sephardic MKs. Arye Deri was sentenced to jail for a small crime for 3 years because he was Sephardic and Religious while there are many government officials whose bribary crimes were tenfold, but were not imprisoned for even one day. Why? Because they're Ashkenazic and secular. Two no-nos in secular Israel. So now, who are the racist? The charedim or the seculars? In fact, many of my family members and friends have mixed marriages of Sephardim and Ashkenazim. Your "facts" are obviously nothing but rubbish in order to dishonor charedim.
12. tali is BSing. But that aside, she can marry me anytime :)
yonatan ,   Israel   (04.20.07)
13. Pole with temani
Jose ,   Paris   (04.20.07)
When I Was in Ein Hanatsiv Kibbut, there is a Habad family the wife is temani and the husband was born in Poland, the wife's sister is also married to a polish guy...So... In My family my cousin who is now 70 year old, her mother thought he will never get married, she said you can have hassenne even with an hungarian.. That is what he did and he is very happy ( + 37 years wedding)
14. Publicly funded brainwashing of Charedi youth...
Adam Adamati ,   Israel   (04.20.07)
is WORSE than the brainwashing in the Palestinian schools. Why? Because nothing will be done about it until it is too late. Religious ghettos will expand on the backs of the taxpaying and working public. The best and brightest will leave in greater numbers. Civil rights will be ignored. Stop Blindly voting for labor, shas, etc. and israel beitienu. Demand accountible politicians. Outlaw the histadrut.
15.  Nonsense. WELL SAID #3
Emily (Ovadia) ,   Rosh Ha'Ayin   (04.20.07)
Just look at the variety of surnames in the engagement columns in the 'Mishpacha' CHAREIDi paper. Shes talking rubbish, I don't believe this stupid conversation took place and if so, why didn't she approach the Rebbetzin of this (ficticious?)minyan? AND she gets paid for trashing communities. But Ynet l-e-r-ves all this. Loads o' codswallop as you say. By the way I hope she invites us all to her daughter's pre wedding "Chinne" (females only of course)( ha ha of course she wont make one, as she wants to be 'seen' as ashkenazi and THAT'S this lady's problem in a nutshell.)How COULD she marry into a racist hungarian family, I wonder... and wow! they let their son marry her . Wow again. How's her jichnoon and mallawa I wander... a 'mechaya' I hope. What I can't stand is these people who give up their authentic roots( no offense to sheitel wearers..) and wonderful customs.
16. Go easy on the words hate and evil, lady
Black is best   (04.20.07)
makes you sound, maybe.. paranoic?
17. I'm upset
Blondie   (04.20.07)
My silver coloured car is no longer in fashion. Black is the 'in' colour now..Maybe I'll write an article on this dreadful racist trend?
18. 1, 3 & Tali
Paqid 16 Netzarim ,   Ra'anana, Israel   (04.20.07)
Reuven, though I usually admire your talkbacks, your flippant dismissal of this widespread and serious schism is inappropriate. Eliyahu, you are blissfully unaware of what many Ashkenazim, particularly seculars, say about you "darkies" behind your back. I'm light complexioned and I've heard it -- widely. Many (not all, by any means) Ashkenazim regard you, patronizingly, as primitive and ignorant. They regard Teimanim even worse, as a guileful Jewish version of Gypsies, abhorrently similar to Nazi descriptions of all Jews. These things are said by a significant segment of Ashkenazim behind your back; so, no, you don't hear it. Sepharadim are more accepted by Ashkenazim than Teimanim because they are perceived as less strange and alien to the Ashkenazim. Even if you imagine that you are fully accepted by Ashkenazim, you still have a responsibility to Ethiopians and Teimanim. Tali -- As an American vet who lived in Europe more that 2 years I can tell you that the overwhelming consensus was that European women are FAR from the most attractive -- to be kind about it. You should be confident that Sepharadit girls are much better looking. And even more so Teimanit girls. Not only are Teimanit girls the most beautiful girls I've ever seen, anywhere in the world, I've come to learn over the past decade+ that Teimani men are the warmest, most cordial and most honorable I've ever had the pleasure of meeting, anywhere in my life. When I go to Beit K'nesset I walk among Malakhim ha-Sheim. That ha-Sheim has privileged me to walk among them, despite being born and raised a goy Christian, still brings tears to my eyes. This, despite my introduction to Teimanim in the Tzah"l, by Ashkenazim who warned me in a sincere effort as a friend to be careful because Yemenites are guileful and treacherous -- like Gypsies. They didn't intend to be malicious (like many you read in talkbacks). They are just Ashkenazim who remain ignorant and fearful of what is strange and alien to them, assuming that what's European (or western) is superior. Though it's unsurprising from secular "Jews" (like many you read in talkbacks), it's ironic that ignorant dati Jews call the qedoshim ignorant. Historically, scholars (including Jewish scholars) concur that the Teimanim are the most pristine reflection anywhere on the planet of the Torah and Halakhah that Mosheh Rabeinu handed down on Har Sinai. The Teimanim are followed by the Bavlim (Iraqi Jews) and then by the rest of the Sepharadim. The most assimilated and corrupted tradition managing to remain within Orthodox Judaism are the European-assimilated Ashkenazim. Their arrogance is in inverse proportion to their Torah knowledge, which they confuse with assimilation into European culture. It's no accident that it was Ashkenazim who perverted the Haskalah into Reform Judaism, thus causing the Shoah. Now let me tell you what's wrong with the Teimanim -- and, to a proportionately lesser extent as related above, Bavlim and Sepharadim: you do NOT adequately comprehend, appreciate, respect or properly safeguard the IMMEASURABLE treasure contained in your heritage!!! Researching my way out of Christianity I had a daunting time discovering the most pristine reflection of the Torah and Halakhah of Har Sinai -- which you've had all the time and fail to remain in awe of. Even the Sepharadim still safeguard many elements of the Torah and Halakhah of Har Sinai that the Ashkenazim abandoned. YOU, namely the Teimanim, are the paradigm that ALL of Beit Yisraeil must emulate!!! Until you respect YOUR pristine reflection of Torah from Har Sinai properly, for the irreplaceable greatest treasure on the planet that it is, the MOST pristine reflection of Torah and Halakhah from Har Sinai for the rest of the world to learn from, then you cannot expect those beneath you to respect it. Shabbat Shalom. Paqid Yirmeyahu Israeli Orthodox Jew Advancing Logic as Halakhic Authority Welcoming Jews & non-Jews www.netzarim.co.il
19. Prejudice
Peter ,   Munich, Germany   (04.20.07)
I fear that prejudice is a human factor within all of us. I was raised with prejudice against sephardim. My family is european. As a mature person I wasn't able to expirience any difference between people from different places in the world apart their different lifestyles.
20. Lashon Hara to the nth degree!
Adam Shapiro ,   Jerusalem, Israel   (04.20.07)
Just because you generalise and speak about the Orthodox community as a whole and not individuals, does not make your entire column lashon hara, and possibly even rechilus because your story may even be true! (hard to tell, on ynet!) Why do you speak out against isolated incidences? We are a community/society and in any community/society there are good and bad sectors. I don't know how you will receive mechilah for your entire article being Lashon Hara - it seems you have to ask mechilah from every Orthodox individual! Or maybe, a public apology...?
21. Let's not extrapolate too far
Ilan ,   Ariel   (04.20.07)
There exists a certain amount of prejudice in every community, sometimes that prejudice is not only sanctioned but encouraged from above (read Shinui) and sometimes it is the result other factors. There are a great many examples of Sephardi/Ashkenazi couples so that it has gone beyond trend to matter of fact. There are pockets where that or some other prejudice still exists, but that's the way of some people. Easier to curse the darkness than to light a candle.
22. Happily heard
Tzvi   (04.20.07)
Tali, you are rather happy that you heard this conversation, it gave you a chance to once again write badly about the jewish people. Next week try going INTO the synagogue, see people pray and sing and not hang out with six year olds. (Although, I understand your wish to be with people of your intelligence.)
23. Most Ashkenazi and non Ashkenazi share 87.3% paternal DNA
Adam ,   Jerusalem, Israel   (04.20.07)
and 40% maternal
24. Fault with Haredim
James ,   Istrael   (04.20.07)
Why should she not? There is a lot to fault and it should be brought to light. These are ultra-orthodox so in theory, they should have higher morals than others, not lesser.
25. feeling worthless
Tzviah Greenberg ,   Israel   (04.20.07)
This young lady's problem I think is because of her inferiority complex. Did she ever listen to sefardim negate the Ashkenazim. Her hair would stand on end.IWriting this article definitely didn't solve any problem. She only added fuel to fire.
26. RACISM IS VERY STRONG IN THE ASHKENAZI BLACK-HAT WORLD
SERGIO ,   QIRYAT ARBA   (04.20.07)
IN FACT, THERE ARE EVEN QUOTAS IN THEIR GIRLS' SEMINARS FOR SEFARDI GIRLS, THEY DISPARAGE SEFARDI MINHAGHIM AS NOURISHKEIT, THEY EVEN CALL SEFARDIM "BO'ALE' NIDDOTH" BECAUSE THEY FOLLOW HALAKHÀ (BETH YOSEF) ON EFSEQ TAHARÀ INSTEAD OF "CHUMROTH YETEROTH". BLACK-HAT ASHKENAZIM HAVE INVENTED A NEW RELIGION AND PRETEND TO IMPOSE THEIR FOREIGN AND GALUTH MINHAGHIM IN ERETS ISRAEL!
27. My wife is "suntanned" Sephardi Beautiful Person
Yacov ,   Ashkelon   (04.20.07)
I am as white as an uncooked hunk of carp, while my wife is a beautiful "suntanned" Sephardi woman whom our community in the U.S. derided as a "Black Russian". To all those as "bleached out" as I am, I would highly recommend "suntanned" Sephardi as friends, companions, spouses, or business partners. Ashkelon is loaded with "suntanned" Sephardi and they are wonderful people. They are struggling to carry on their cultures and Judaism just as much as we northern Europeans of the "bleached out" persuasion.
28. Class
Benny ,   Denver   (04.20.07)
In one of my grad school classes we spoke about Ashkenazi priviledge and how they (still) have many racist attitudes among them (us). I find this Jewish Orientalism appaling and counterproductive to everything under the sun. You wonder where those Haredi kids got those thoughts (their family, school, rabbis, etc.) And anyway, the whole idea of Ashkenazi/Sephardi is arbitrary--we're all Jews. Period. Jews, unfortunately can be racist as well. (Shvartze, goy, en Aravim en piguim) It's all racist and disgusting. If we're a light unto the nations, there isn't much hope for the rest of the world, either.
29. Compare and contrast
Avi ,   Israel   (04.20.07)
Nuremberg law 1935 Marriages between Jews and Germans are forbidden Existing marriages are invalid Relationship between Jews and Germans are not allowed Jewish home cannot employ a German female under the age of 45 Jews are not allowed to fly the German flag And now a littiel about Jewish law Jews are not allowed to marry others Jews are not allowed to have relationship with not Jews Those that are not married in a certain way are considered not married Unmarried young female cant be found in the vicinity of Jewish men Jews are not allowed to have any other symbol I say we need to break away from the strong hold of the delusional rabbis
30. Isn't a little bit of "racism" helpful?
Abdullah ,   EuMe   (04.20.07)
I don't reaqlly mean racism but showing a preference in marraige towards those from a similar background. Jews have a rich and varied cultural heritage. "Intermarriage" can lead to a loss of some priceless traditions. Though I strongly oppose making fun of people b'cos they're lighter or darker than I am or b'cos of their accents on language, it is still important to emphasize the distinctions in the rich cultural heritage. In the Torah, the tribes were restricted from inter-marrying in the land of cana'an in order to avoid a loss of land inheritance. So it makes sense to me that every effort should be made to preserve the diverse "ethnic" traditional heritage of the Jewish people.
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