you say ambulances are never used to transport explosives: how about this pretty footage since March 2002, showing a dynamite belt hidden under the stretcher of a "sick" child: http://youtube.com/watch?v=BkwfUEOzfRw http://youtube.com/watch?v=1Upe8SfPjjY http://youtube.com/watch?v=nWIegq3KzWc and this is just a sample. With 1 billion USD aid a year you guys should and could be pretty much capable of taking care of your own sick. Thank you for admitting that ALL OF YOU want us destroyed. We'll keep that in mind next time you come whining about your collapsing economy, roadblocks, etc. etc.

So when an Israeli soldier breaks code of conduct, and kills, beats-up, shoots insults, a palestinian civilian or uses him as a human shield...,as has been documented many times on video ........ does that mean that all Israeli soldiers are like that ? does that mean that all Israeli civilians should be punished because of that ? i don't think so ..... off course people abuse the system, it is a chaotic, dangerous living situation,....do you think the UN ambulance could have said NO to the gunmen?!!!!! do you think i would agree that an ambulance carrying sick people, has an explosive belt inside? do you think the women with her kids in the ambulance would agree to that if she knew? off course not ...... my angry friend, this is what is plaguing this conflict, the black or white outlook at life.....their is no pure right or pure wrong...... the reality is that there are a couple of thousand ambulances working in the west bank and Gaza, and a couple of thousand Palestinians get sick and need to go to hospitals every day (yes we do get sick also, and bleed red like you do) ..... exceptions, and abuses to the system don't justify the collective punishment approach ...so what is your solution, just let everyone die? i don't think you mean it like that ...........

you can present palestinians as poor and unfair treated people, but on the other hand you can see 1000 examples of terror actions and more, are you searching for someone to critic? first watch how other countries act when they are attacked.

thank you for your response. No, I did not mean that all Palestinians should die. I know you get sick, and as a matter of fact you propably know that Israeli hospitals do provide state of the art medical care for a great number of Palestinian patients. On a daily basis. What I meant is that you should rely less on Israel. The amounts of aid you are receiving per capita is absolutely unbelievble - no other nation is receiving that. Even India found ways to scrape some funds for you. What I meant is you should put that money to better use - build hospitals and infrastructure instead of terrorist training camps, buy food and supplies instead of trafficking arms, build your own lives instead of trying to destroy ours. And please, please, do not tell me that you can't do it because Israel won't let you. Just look at Gaza - the morning following the pullout everything that was left behind was looted, vandalized and destroyed. The greenhouses were a lucrative business, with an established market. They were simply razed to the ground to be used as Qassam-launching pads. I am glad you raised the question of colelctive punishment - I think Sderot residents have been subjected to collective punishment - people have been killed, maimed, property destroyed. But how about the collective punishment aircraft passengers are being subjected to - I have had my luggage turned upside down on several occasions, and lately, you cannot even take a bottle of mineral water on board for fear it might contain potential explosives. Why? Need I mention Muslim terrorists flying planes into WTC? Or planning to blow up several aircraft in midair?You claim a mother wouldn't allow explosives near her child? That woman in Gaza, the one affiliated with Hamas who boasted that all her sons had "martyred" themselves? How about all the parents who praise their suicide bomber sons? How about that British Muslim woman who had hidden explosives in her baby's bottle? My solution - I look at it in a simple way - say husband and wife who fight and hit each other very day - what's the solution? divorce. Total separation - I don't visit you, you don't visit me. I don't travel to PA territory, you don't travel to Israel. Until we calm down. Yes, there is anger but also dispair. And later perhaps, when wounds heal, then perhaps we may reconsider. Mind you, if you decided to travel, say, to Tel-Aviv, once you managed to pass the check-point, nobody would bother you. If I decided to travel to Nablus, I would probably be abducted, lynched, shot, stabbed... Not by you, you sound like a reasonable person. By such people who lynched the two soldiers in Ramallah, by such people who shot a guard a few days ago west of Ramallah while transporting oil to the PA. By the likes of the woman treated for burns in Beer-Sheva who thought she should repay the doctors and nurses who restored her human appearance by blowing herself up among them. I wish you all the best, and may we see real peace in our lifetime!

Thanks for your toned-down response..... Why do you say we rely on israel? i'm not following exactly....if you mean by letting supplies get into gaza or the west bank? where else would them come from, you control all the borders.........FYI since march 2006 no palestinian employee in the public sector has been paid a complete paycheck because of the financial embargo placed on the palestinians by your governmnet and the us ...the employess recieve handouts(like half a pay check) every couple of months from the government, but that is about it..........these employees include doctors, teachers, nurses, janitors the whole spectrum....why? how is that not collective punishment? of a hamas or fatah member uses his position to do something against israel, how is that my fault? please don't tell me you voted for them becasue that is meaningless....and is not an excuse for you to control or lives on such a fundemental level.... yes, sederot resident's are being punished, and i truly belive that the rockets landing over there are truly wrong, and should be stopped, how you might say? coordinate with the palestinain side, and run a joint israeli -patrol...we've already talked about this yestrday on this website... as for you luggage issue, it might be a big deal to you...but just come over here and see that even finding drinling water is a big deal, electricty, health care, basic movements...all a nightmare .......!!do you know that we can't be in the streets at night over here becasue thats when the army comes everynight and you could get killed?..it is that bad......... i agree with you that separation is the only way, until people cool down......but how can you separate when you have 4-10 settelments around nablus and growing? how can you separate that? it should not be only at our expense as is the case now.... as for the whole issue of the WTC and binladen, binladen and his bunch harmed the palestinain cause more than anyone.....we did not need him, nor did we ask him to do anything in our behalf, he has his own twisted agenda, so lets not mix stuff up so that we could find a solution to this problem..... you said that the mom would allow her kids to die, as the mom in gaza did, again you are generalizing a very similar to the amublance argument, my mom has feelings and fears for our lives like any other mom worldwide does....that is human nature....the exception is not the rule....as for being lynched in nablus, that was not the case before the first intifada....israeli's used to come here all the time, even unarmed soldiers used to hangout with their fellow palestinan friends over here...what you seeing-the crazyiness is an out come of the conflict, and the misrable crazy life...not because we want to kill all the jews as always publicised..... this conflict to be solved needs the issues to be addressed for what they truly are......not for what they look like on the surface.... i wish you the best, and i personally invite you to nablus if you want to come see the truth, there are a lot of foriegners her don't get lynched.......again, the carzyiness you see is an outcome of the crazy conflict, nothing more, we are not bad...sorry my spellingis not great at this time of night... my respects to you ...

I hope you find some nice ones from me as well, if not here, then on some other column. I had forgotten, BTW, who you were. You are the American guest in Israel who badmouths Israelis and tries to turn Americans against them. Too bad you were given a work visa.

Ynut is an English language site published by a big Israeli media outlet. Is the inane quality of writing, thinking and silly self-flagellation typical in Israel?

Abdel, you seem like a decent fellow; unfortunately, you do not understand your own society. I say you do not understand because I do not think you are lying. The Pals are the #1 per capita beneficiaries of aid money in the world, and they have been #1 for years. There is simply no plausible way to blame Israel for your inability to prosper. The idea that vast amounts of weaponry can reach the PA but that material to build an economy, as well as food, cannot reach it is just not plausible. You seem to believe that your fellow "Palestinian" is also decent, but this cannot be true in general. Decent people, if given a choice, vote for neither Hamas nor Fatah. We also know from poll after poll that the Hamas vote was no fluke. Pals obviously think that killing Jews is a positive. These people are not "exceptions"; YOU are the exception. You are also, in my view, wrong when you say that "the conflict" is making people "crazy." The problem is the Muslim ideology of jihad, as implemented in full by the PA and the other terror groups. You now have a generation that has been trained from near birth with terrorist propaganda. You now live in a death cult. The only chance for the "Palestinians" is for them to reject jihad completely and to use aid dollars to build a capacity for electricity generation, water production, agriculture, manufacturing, and so on. Frankly, I do not think that will happen.

Truman, known as 'give 'em hell Harry, once said, "I only tell them the truth and they think it's hell."

again, i understand. however, don't you think that bombing a pizzeria, night club, etc... in israel and killing hundreds of INNOCENT CIVILIANS IN THE NAME OF RESSISTANCE IS ALSO COLLECTIVE PUNISHMENT ON THE ISRAELI PUBLIC WHO IS NOT WEARING IDF UNIFORMS????

all justified. then do something about the fanatics thathijacked your society and is using it for their own agenda. you people need to rebel and outst this miserable movement from palestinian lands. period. otherwise we will never have peace because your terrorists do not want you to have peace. they just are thugs who want to kill as many israelis as possible. mayhem and violence on the streets in gaza and not a single palestinian does anything aBOUT IT. WHO RULES OVER THERE ANYWAY?

Let the wild animals out of the cage and see if you are still there to live. They were offered peace and all chose the destruction of our State and the killing of every Jew in it. So where are you going to go - dear writer? Will any country take a few million Jews? Geat real.

Where are you Mr. Censor? How come this rubbish is allowed to be printed? They should not be allowed into Israel at all whilst they are at war with us. SHUT THIS PAPER DOWN.

so you are saying that school children who has to go throw hell to reach their schools and men and women who wake up at 5 am to go to work and feed their kids THREATEN your life!!!!! that is your governement propaganda, thats what they want you to believe. i hope you can see palis society from inside. you just want to believe that everybody is hamas!NO, it is not true, iam sorry again for your ignorance!! ( unfortunately, u don't know how many palis died on those checkpoints cuz their ambulance was stopped for many hours, thats how their life is worthy)

No , not all palestinians are hamas , but a great majority voted for them . If there are , or better were , road blocks in gaza , it's not for our pleasure , it's for our security . If there were no attacks , no suicide bombers and so on , your people would not have to wake up at 5 in the morning to go to work , school and so . There were certainly palestinians who suffered at the road blocks , but you have to know that arms and explosives were transported by ambulances . You also know that kids and women are used by your terrorists as human shields , that's very courageous from their side , they know that Israeli won't open fire when there is a risk of hurting children and women . You want to be rid of those check points ? yes , of course . It's only up to you . Stop terror activities , that's all . We'll be the happiest if this happens .

You give hope. Thanks.

Abdel, sorry you felt the need to make up this story, you see, some of us know how these things work, if this ambulance really existed, surely it would have had a radio on board to verify it was on a legitimate journey. I have never met any person yet of any faith , creed or nationality who wwould have done as you said the man did, and if it had happened it would have been all over the papers, for there are many ismers etc with cameras to take the appropriate shot. nuff said

I agree with you %100, that is a big genuine injustice, not to mention immoral. trust i'm not just saying this, i understand, and any people going through this will be justified in their fear and anger......our side are rightful in their cause 'of living free, and having the right to self determination, and their own state', but not at any cost, and not with any tactic. this is an attrocity that our side has to defeat , but internally, through the people themselves ....which is hard to do, in the current situation. the people who can defeat this issue are the educated, the middle class, university students, and 'eductaed' relegious scolars ....in order for some internal debate about this issue (which is the only way to fix it), some stability and peace is required. how can i convince a university student for example who has to hide between the trees while coming to the univeristy becasue the soldiers will beat him for leaving his village, how can you convince someone like to stick-his neck out for the well being of the other side, who don't care about his well being ...?the middle class due to the economics, and living conditions are either poor now, or fled the country.....as is the case with eductaed..........as for relegious scholars, that is even a bigger issue with the role of relgioun in the society, which is a very hard discussion to have even in times of peace .......so, the ingreadents for such debate are not there, and are complicated by the situation.......more pressure and punishment on the population will make even the most basic items and actions so hard to acheive, there for it makes their lives even more backwards and rudementary ......therefor we are back to the chicken and egg debate. but still our side is taking the heavy weight of the conflict, which in the mean while makes the chance for the above less likley.....this is very critical to understand, if you and us want a better future ....... let me know if you don't that what i said makes sense ..........we are not evil as some people here would like to imagine, where you are born, and what environment you live in determines to a certain extent who you are......a comparison between a jewish kid living in newyork, and a palestinain refugee kid living in a run-down gun shot riddled camp , is not a fair, the thinking is different, the right and wrongs are different, and the choices and options in life are very different....... hope it makes sense.....

One fo the main reasons in the 80s and what fueled the 1st initifada was the land confiscations, illegal settlements and Israeli only roads that caused restrictions (lack of movements). The Pals started feeling bieng choked and this was the main issue for the 1st initifda. And at a time there were no S. bombings and many Pals and Israelis had relations w/ each other in business and personal levels. Israel's intentions were clear back then and it had very little to do w/ security. But action by Israel back in the 80s cause the resistance. So please people dont act like a victim. you were stealing our lands and caging us in way back in the 70s and 80s. During the peace deal in the 90s, settlements doubled. Israel is causing the status quo and you cant blame it all on us.

i.e. a fence? To call this trashy article, pure hyperbole would be an understatement. Did someone say atrocity? Maybe we should introduce him to all the victims of palestinian terror atrocities or better still Farfur the Mouse.

Before June 1967 , when Judea Samaria was occupied by Jordan and Gaza by Egypt , there were no road blocks , no "Israelis only roads" no "illegal" settlements , but there were also terrorist attacks , killings of children and women during their sleep , so don't come with those excuses you bring for your behaviour . Yes , you are suffering , but it's only up to you to change this . You voted for an hamas government , party whose only goal is to annihilate the Jews and their State , this will bring only more sufferings to you , sad to say . You did'nt revolt against the Jordan and Egyptians [ who forbade you , their brethren to come in their country ] you were in a prison in all of Gaza , and you stayed quiet . You knew that Egypt would'nt tolerate any struggle from you , and they would react , not so softly as the Israeli's did years later . Egypt did'nt allow any human rights watchers in their places , you could not complain , and you did'nt . You are to blame for everything what happens today . You did not accept any serious proposition , even not this very far reaching of Barak in 2000 . your answer was : intifada . You always missed every occasion for a peacefull settlement of our problems .

www.poorhaa...tz.com. they will love you, there. by the way tell them Hi, from Atilla Karagözoğlu :) than you see what is worst :) I am kidding, dont give my name. I did drive them crazy once :)

i guess i answered your question in the post above this one,,,,, still you raise an interesting question about who rules gaza........ the answer is everyone rules Gaza...... you have power, you rule....you have an entourage you rule .....that is the sad reality........ but it is classic scenario due to the break down of the society, and lack of a true central government .. it is divided by family-clans , social class, money, and religion (secular vs. religious)...too many people in one big cage...... very dangerous scenario and something has to give...very bad........and people say oh where do the millions of dollars in aid go? they used to go to the ruling party (fatah) at that time, and barely trickle down to the people.....that does not mean that fatah was necessarily bad, they are some really good people who care, but there are a handful of big names that sucked the life out of the people....so what did people do? the voted hamas since hamas was running on an anti corruption platform.......even Christians in some areas voted hamas. but the reality is that the hamas win was not as decisive as it seemed....... in any election , not all who are capable of voting vote (roughly half of the population are under voting age anyway), you know that......in this case, a lot of people were sick and tired of both sides and the lack of a better options.......... a lot DID NOT VOTE, on the other hand, some fatah sympathizers voted hamas to teach there bosses a lesson, the fFPLP people voted hamas also becasue they hate fatah, and did not get a good share of the cut, and hamas who are very well organized had all their members and sympathizers show up at voting locations, and voted......you see why we have hamas in power? it was a strategic mistake on behalf of Israel and the US to insist on a vote in times of conflict like this,,,the people are going to vote right wing by default, the same way as Israel is going to vote netenyaho soon....i hope not! Hamas does not have the support that is publicizes in teh media, just look at Gaza again, they can't even secure the release of the BBC correspondent, not to mention shalit...both releases will help them internationally and they are no idiots, they know that,,,,, but them don't have the leverage you might think they do, their support comes from the fact that people right now are going back to religion due to the misery, and the near death experiences they go through every day (because of the conflict), but beyond that, they have no control over who does what....just look at the UN incident in gaza, do you think they would want that while they asking the world for help ending the embargo .....no they would not ... Israel right now is a nation without leaders, Palestinians on the other hand are a people with too many ...... i hope this makes sense ...

I agree with you 100%, we contributed to your and our suffering a lot. But read # 51 and tell me that he is completely wrong. I always enjoy to hear a voice of sanity coming from the Palestinian side. Unfortunately, Abdel's and other voices seem to be unrepresentative of the Palestinian majority. We all want peace. But ours as well as your problem is the religious fanatics on both sides, who for some reason think that serving God requires venom, hate and violence. I'm tired of living in constant fear that all this will explode into my face any minute now. And I can only imagine how you feel living in this awful situation every day. I would give a lot to see all of us getting along and for Palestinian to enjoy the kind of prosperity that Israel had known. But there're too many people who will give everything, including their lives, to see us die. These are not good terms for co-existence. Arabs weren't peaceful neighbours from the get-go, way before '48, and things had deteriorated catastrophically. Jews, known in Europe for their gentility and in Arab countries for their adaptability, had absorbed the local culture and mentality, and that's what you see at the roadblocks and everywhere else. I'm not proud of Israeli soldiers who humiliate Arabs. But I know why they do it. If you can understand suicide bombers, one can easily understand an angry soldier who stands at the border of his country, feeing responsibility to protect it from harm. Remember, we don't shoot at each other on the streets. We don't shoot from behind the backs of children and elderly. Once the Palestinians start showing compassion towards each other (true compassion, not the televised kind at funerals ordered by the BBC), your lives and our lives will start turning good.

Dangerous animals are kept in cages, aren't they? Why? Because they are a danger to everyone and cannot be allowed to roam free. What's their problem, are they getting a little anxious because they haven't managed to shoot an Israeli for a day or so? You behave like animals you will be treated like them. What's not to understand here?

funny i already had this heading in my comp' memory. I guess ppl don't change...

Unfortunately, this situation which was created by the aftermath of WWII and the short sightedness of leaders in the region will only get worse. Israel has the power but neither the wisdom nor the will to liberate the Palestinians. Israel has killed far more Palestinians than vice versa and continues to oppress and exclude the OTHER (palestinians). It is this fact plus the brutality of people born without human rights because they are stateless Palestinians that damns both Israel and the Palestinians. As long as it is lawful for Israelis to deny sufferage or self determination to the Palestinian collective, then there will be conflict. Just look at the three hundred year conflict between the United States and the Native Americans. It didn't actually end until the Native Americans were granted full citizenship in the US as well as in their own tribes. Israel is flat out doomed because unlike in the US of the 1800s no more massacres or forced exodous of the indigenous population is permitted. It is therefore likely that Israel will maintain the current status quo, resulting in its gradual deteriation, until such a time as the Palestinians by sheer press of numbers motivated by mass starvation actually do revolt. Remember that the militants of the current, and all past, conflicts have involved less than 1% of the Palestinian population. If, say, 50% decided to revolt, they would succed even against a massacre of their population. The IDF has grown accustomed to the oppression of a passivist population. That population, however, through generations of the current situation is starting to lose control of their passivist indoctrination. Remember Jesus told them-the indigenous Isarelites/Palestinians/first Christians- that the meek shall inherit the earth and they have lived by that montra ever since. It is frequently heard in Mosques. Once it is loss then their children will revolt. Violently. Israel will have no one to blame but itself. You have maintained a brutal oppression for decades with no possible or visible resolution. Despair is inevitable.

No terror - No checkpoint ! In this order. End of the discussion.

What about the ambulance that was carrying suicide belts and bombs? Opps you forgot to mention that one! Maybe an ambulance would be allowed through and lives could be saved had you not used them to transport explosives. So, that's just another thing that you have to thank yourselves for – and stop blaming everyone else. Cry me a river. No-one cares about your moaning and crying. Infact it's getting on everyone's nerves. You've made your bed now lie in it, but……………….........……quietly!!!

each other? I think Rabin might disagree. A "Jew" killed him. Besides, Palestinians are the descendants of Jews, and the IDF seems to be killing them just fine. Simply Google "y-chromosome jew Palestinian" and you will get lots of articles on the subject. One of those articles, by researchers at Hebrew University, breaks down the Palestinian ancestry to indicate that 50% of Palestinian muslim males are descendants of Jews (actually, the Judean tribe--their Y-chromosomes being identity with 70% of diaspora male jews), 30% are closely related descendants of the northern tribes (Israel), with only 20% being admixture from the arabs/europeans and the like. In other words, from the point of view of the "children of Israel land grant" thing, the Palestinians are genetcially of more "purely" Israelite origin. Let us not even address the issue of the female lineage. (Just add Mitochondria to your search in place of y-chromosome. Ironically, Israeli scientists actually use the typical Palestinian female genetics to determine if certain isolated tribes of Jews/Israelites are in fact descedants of the ancient Israelites before allowing those tribes to return to Israel. If their female genetics matches the Palestinian female genetics then, according to the authorities, they are descendants of the ancient Israelites and may return to Israel.) Please "Jews" don't shoot at Jews; Israel kills the descendants of Rachel every single day through either direct assault or through denial of timely access to medical care. Israel has the danger of becomming precisely the oppressive beast she was created to protect against: A nation that daily oppresses and slaughters the descendants of a man named Israel, simply because they were born within the control of that nation. You are commiting a pogrom, and although I serious doubt this progrom will ever become genocide, the potential exists. What are you going to do with them? You have them encapsulated like dangerous wild animals (to paraphrase another poster). Now what?