By "converting" to Judaism, you are meeting the requirements set thousands of years ago for joining the Jewish nation - or "tribe" as Shmuel has called it.. Although there is an ethnic aspect to Jewish identity due to the fact that conversion has historically been difficult - this is NOT what defines whether one is Jewish or not. The so-called "religious" laws of Halakha or not religious at all. In fact, the concept that Judaism is a "religion" is completely untrue. Religion is a Westernized concept that does not apply to Judaism. The laws of Halakha are the laws of a nation - the nation of Israel - which is defined NOT by ethnicity or "religion", but by being a part of the "tribe" by fulfilling the requirements for a conversion.

The concept that Judaism is a religion is: 1) Outdated 2) Untrue I say outdated because, perhaps before Zionism, one MAY have been able to say that being Jewish is "just a religion" (though I wonder then how you explain the nationalist tendencies like "Next year in Jerusalem"). However, with the rise of Zionism, it is basically universally accepted among Jews - whether they be Zionists or anti-Zionists, that Judaism not a religion but a national identity. You are correct in the fact that this has nothing to do with genes or blood. Anyone may join the Jewish nation if they fit the requirements outlined in the Torah and Talmud (consider it applying for a citizenship for the Jewish nation).

The actions of this Ashdod rabbi made me sick! He overstepped his authority. Unfortunately, I have also encountered others who agree with him. Rivka, keep up your excellent work.

I have read many tb's regarding this conversion subject . Some , experts ? , say , that if a convert has observed the rules , even a very short time , it's OK for Halacha . Others , also experts , claim the contrary , you have to abide to halacha all the time , a short time is not enough . So , before writing try to have the same Halachic rules . And to yisroel , where did you read that she confessed to have lied ? And to "religious" people begalut , don't write tb's Yom Tov . If you do it , i ask : are you religious ? observant ?

Before Zionism being Jewish just a religion ? And what about the vast quantities of secular Jews ? Being Jewish now a national identity ? Even in Israel it's not so for everyone . And what does an Israeli have in common with a Jewish [ ? ] anti Israeli ? Certainly not a national identity ! For me , being Jewish , is having this Jewish background , this common History , those common endured persecutions , and today being proud to belong to this people that has contributed so much to mankind . And this you can not obtain it by conversion , you are jewish by halacha , that's all . Hereby i'm not saying that converts are not welcome , they are , but they lack something .

we need paqid hamoshiach to come and straighten out us simplistic finite dopes. maybe he's too busy translating some cairo geniza fragments of the synoptic gospels. we await you, paqid!

What MY Rabbis have told me, if a Jew converts to Christianity, he/she is still a Jew. They are just a Jew who is sinful. They can always return to Judaism and become Chozrei B'Tshuvah and they do not lose "status" as Jews any more than any other Ba'al Tshuvah. Perhaps my Rabbi and your Rabbi disagree. But as far as I know, what my Rabbi has said is more in line with mainstream Jewish tradition. There is NO percentage of Jewish ethnicity necessary to be considered Jewish. One just needs to be born of Jewish mother or converted according to (preferably Orthodox) Halacha (and that if your mother converted, that you converted Halachically).

First, I didn't mean that before Zionism Judaism was just a religion. I said clearly that I very strongly disagree with that idea, though some may be able to successfuly argue it. I too feel Jewish for exactly the reasons you described - because of our common history, etc. While a convert may not be able to feel these at the same level as someone who is born Jewish, they may still feel a strong (dare I say spiritual?) connection to the Jewish People - and thus define their identity. These things that you are describing: The shared language, the shared history, the shared pride - what do you call these? These are certainly not a religion, and they are most certainly not an ethnicity. What you are describing is a NATIONAL identity! I think it is the GREATEST failure of Zionism that Israelis today feel Israeli rather than Jewish. Even seculars should feel a huge connection to the JEWISH NATION - whose homeland happens to be the Land of Israel. Not only is this the TRUTH, but it would have allowed the religious-secular divide to, perhaps, be blurred a little bit in my opinion.

well, that goes against what all rabbis say, that you cannot be jewish AND christian. don't shoot the messenger because that is all that they have ever said. what your rabbi says is, actually, far out of the mainstream and is probably just his own personal opinion, which i happen to believe that he is correct in this matter. i disagree with the rabbinic notion that jewishness is ONLY passed through the mother. that is pathetically wrong because you can have an individual who has 12.5% jewish blood and they are "jewish" because they have a technically "jewish" mother, but the one who has a 100% jewish father and a gentile mother is "not jewish". that is insane.

let him stay silent , he made already enough futile noise with his disguised religiosity .

Bravo Rivka Lubitch, its not only revolting its also very ""UNJEWISH'' As a first step one should no longer address this person as Rabbi, he should be fired, re the Zionist Rabbis are only motivated by ''settlements'' the rest is usually, secondary, they made no real move on the questions of Agunot, against a Chief Rabbinate which bows to the wills of the Haredi leaders who don't recognize the Cheif Rabbinate proof they have their own schools and Kashrut, such Rabbis only create Hillul Hase\hem and unjustified hatred of the Religious.

So i , a very secular , have to feel the same Jewish national identity as the ultra orthodox ? That's impossible , we have too much differences in our approach to Israel . A secular can be attached to this country for Historical reasons . Here our history is not only writen in books , you have this History LIVE in every corner of our country . When you walk in or around Jerusalem , can't you think that 3000 years ago king David also walked on the same place ? you have'nt to be religious to have this feeling . This is our HISTORY . You can be secular and not deny the historical part of the tora .

A person born Jewish can return without any problem to Judaism . For example , mgr Lustiger , of France , can become a Jew again . He has of course to deny his Christian past . What you are saying regarding a person with only a Jewish father , has maybe some logic , but is not accepted by the Orthodox establisment . I'm very secular , but regarding conversions , i prefer to see them performed by the Orthodox authorities , and would not recognise conversions performed abroad by Reforms or other non Orthodox authorities .

i agree with what you say, but i still believe that, despite what the rabbis say, those with only a jewish father are as jewish as those with only a jewish mother. if what they say is true, there are a lot of goyyim in the bible that they consider jewish. the reason i say that is because, being christian, i know jews who are christian and they are told they are no longer jewish. never mind that their parents are both jewish and they marry another jewish christian of the same jewish parentage. they're not jewish. in essence, their jewish blood is worthless, which is a shame (especially in light of the russian christians, for example, that are allowerd to immigrate under the law of return). all i'm asking for is some reasonable consistency, which i think is what everyone wants. but, then again, this is not my battle so take my opinion for what it's worth. (and, don't get me wrong, the less we see of paqid around here, the better - he gives jews, christians, and smart people a bad name.)

If the rabbinical court (and not just one rabbi) can indeed prove that AT THE TIME OF THE CONVERSION she intended not to be observent, the conversion is not vaild. Cases like this have been decided before in Israel (think of ordering a non kosher catering service for the party after the conversion) Not keeping mitzvot after being converted has no influence anymore. For the "not to reject one of the 613" - what is reject? Of course one shouldn't reject mitzvot, but that is not yet keeping them. Converts are treated even more lenient concerning observance since halacha respects their having problems with this major change in life.

Granted, maybe I should have been more clear when I stated that Judaism is a religion. I should have said, Judaism has been BOTH a religion and an ethnicity. However, it is primarily a Religion. In this I have to also agree with M. Martin NYC/Tel Aviv. He is also correct. As a technicality , I would inject the modifier ' primarily ' in order not to disregard a period of history when Jews could indeed claim to be an ethnicity. So, yes. In the begining, Judaism was solely religion. Scattered, wandering, and bedouin peoples came together under the religion, to be members of the religion. Later it became an ethnicity. But we must always remember that wherever Jews settled throughout the world Judaism always absorbed members from those countries and thus aways diluting the ethnic component to some large extent. Look around today and you will see Jews with Spanish, Irish, Italian, African, Chinese, Korean, Russian, Puerto Rican, German, British, Polish, Australian faces, etc., etc.,etc.. I would argue that it was always religion which later gained status as an ethnicity, but never lost its primarily religious foundationional underpinnings. That it is primarily a SPIRITUAL BOND. It appears that in times of persecution and fear it went ethnic. In these times especially as each individual movement spreads and migrates and differentiates, it becomes again, less and less an ethnicaly based RELIGION.

You may have something there when you say that converts lack something. I would immediately say that that something is the earlier persecutory experiences that Jews in the past have experienced. I would also say that converts may not have experienced the inclusive circling of the wagons when Jews feel threatened. One can also consider that converts may lack the ability to convey to other Jews the feeling of having been the stranger, the ger, the goy in the galut, previously to converting. There is also the feeling of being suspect and different by jews who see Judaism as only an ethnicity. When one converts, you are in school with the Rabbi for a year or more. But that is just the begining of lifelong studies. Once converted the convert soon discovers that he may know more about Judaism than many lifelong Jews who couldn't care less. I became a Jew because I grew up in a Jewish area of NY, had Jewish friends as a child. Early on I had seen the best and the worst of Jews. The better Jews that I had known I admired much. They were witty and smart, educated and serious about their religion. (They were usually Reform and Conservative Jews) And I wanted some of that. I wanted to assume those values. Maybe I could make the most of my life, have loving and supporting friends and family tied together by an enduring spiritual bond. When I became a Jew, I had an good idea what I was in for. I accepted Judaism with all its strengths and goodness and its warts and weaknesses. But, that does not mean that I can't try to make it better. They one thing I never knew about Judaism regards Israel. I never knew that such a great people could be so cruel and mean to each other when it came to their own religion, and how politically corrupt it has become in our ancient spiritual homeland.

As i said , a Jew converted to Christianity , can easily return to Judaism . But you can't of course be Christian and Jew at the same time . There is nothing wrong or absurd with this . And those Christians , with both their parents Jewish are NOT Jewish . That's 100 % right .

if they're not jewish, then why the jewish mother thing? why are russian christians who had one athiestic grandparent considered jews? the rabbis need to be consistent because there are jewish atheists and buddhists, for example, yet there is no such prohibition on their jewishness. i understand why the rabbis do it, but it is rather hypocritical. i know it's not going to change ever, but it is just interesting to hear the explanations.

we are linked by history, family ties (biological and adopted), culture, language, sensibility, food and other variables none of which are dominant in all of us. We were a people when we stood before sinai, when they carted us off to babylon and then rome, when we revolted time after time, when we were burned for our heresies and yes when we questioned our own traditions during the enlightenment and the birth of zionism..... and freethinkers and hassidim, zionists and bundists, converts and cohanim fought in the ghettos, died in the camps, drained the swamps and built a state and strong and proud diaspora communities. we are like snowflakes --each different but yet made of the same intangible Jewish sensibility. so I for one will embrace our diversity and see it as the true key to our endurance as a PEOPLE.

WHAT'S WRONG WITH BEING A NON JEW? MR BOIM SAYS: "This is the state of the Jewish people," Boim answered. "It comprises haredim, religious people and secular people, but it is still the state of the Jewish people. In order to become part of the Jewish people, one must undergo this process. This does not mean that once a person becomes a Jew he must be religious or strictly Orthodox. ALAS THE HALACHA IS NOT SO. HE MUST INTEND TO HOLD THE MITZVOS. A GOOD GOY HAS A NEXT WORLD, HE NEED NOT TAINT HIMSELF WITH SECULAR JEWISH INFERIORITY COMPLEX: THAT SAYS WHY CAN THE CONVERT NOT BE A JEW LIKE ME? IF YOU ONLY KNEW WHAT OUR GRANDMOTHER RUTH THINKS ABOUT YOUR IDEAS.

A person dressed like a 17th century Polish peasant?OR a person who lives by the 10 commandMents?The ultra Orthodoa are a sick and dying cult.For the beauty and holiness of JUDAISM TO SURVIVE may the Orthodox be vanquished in our own time.

Listen Mike , if someone , with both parents 100 % jewish , converts to Christianity , goes 7 days a week to the church , prays to jesus , how can you want him [ or her ] to be considered Jewish ? If you don't understand this , i'm sorry , but there is something wrong with you . Regarding the Russian with one Jewish grand parent , he can convert easily , he WANTS to be Jewish , not as your friends [ or you ]who go to church . I hope that this time you understood , because i won't waste more time with you on this subject .

One thing that you forgot i think : our historical link to this country . For the rest your thinking is very near mine , so i agree . Shabbat Shalom

And i'm a very secular , not a friend of some of the Orthodox .

I am also secular. What I am saying is that Jewish identity should be the same both for religious and secular - that is, we feel that we are brothers because we are part of the same nation - the Jewish nation. Though some may be more observant of Halacha and some less, we share our history, we share our language, we share heritage (a lot of the time), we share a country - we are ONE NATION. THIS should be the new Jewish identity.

This should be the new Jewish identity , you wrote . I could fully agree in this , if all the parties , segments of our nation , would accept this . Sad to say , a part of what could be this Nation or People as Avramele wrote , or don't want to be part of , or reject others , or deny the Jewishness of some . And that's the sort of people that i asked : what have i in common with . Shabbat Shalom .

sorry if i'm upsetting you, but my point is that jewish blood is still jewish blood no matter what one's personal thoughts are. i am in no way saying that a jewish christian is connected at all with rabbinic judaism, only by ethnicity. it amazes me how people can so easily dismiss this reality. you can do a genetic test on these people and it will say they are jewish. answer me this: if they are not jewish, then what ethnicity have they become suddenly? you want to call them hebrews or something else reasonable, then i'm perfectly ok with that. bloodlines can be dismissed or ignored, but it is not at all honest. i'll drop it because i'm not trying to argue about it. forgive my stupidity for not being able to comprehend how this makes sense.

Something very COOL about Rivka. Maybe a touch old-fashioned as I gaze at her photo. But there is depth and substance there. Something very respectable, honorable, strong. Perhaps fierce, yet soft and feeling. I have no idea what a Rabbinical pleader is. Analytical, likable and good. Those are my impressions. .