Everyone throws about the word racist as a knee-jerk reaction to something perceived offensive. Jews and Arabs are both Semitic peoples, they are both the SAME race. There is no race-mixing involved. The difference is religion. And that is just common sense, not racism.

That is what's done with the intermarried rossi-israeli couples. At any rate I think the rossi-israeli, euro-israeli and african-israeli intermarriages are taking more jewish girls away than the badawi.

If a Beduin girl was caught with a Jewish guy both lives would be in danger. It simply does not happen.

The essence of Islam is the submission of a human, whether man, women or slave, to God. Allah is the literal word of The God. for a human to be a muslim, he or she has to submit to Allah, submit to no one but Allah. This is the basic precondition of Muslim. If a person submit to a person- other than Allah- of another gender or rank , he or she is automatically not legible to be a muslim. So, Islam only contradicts itself when the person speaking on behalf of Islam wants that. Islam came when slavery was a common trend in the whole world. Islam does prohibit slavary by making impossible condition to acquire and encouraging conditions demanding freeing a slave. That was 1200 years before Abraham Lincoln.

The families and traditions of old have been relegated to the trash bins of history. These are the new cool hip Israelis, citizens of the world, world travellers and such . Only one problem. They forgot they are Jews and as such every two bit antisemite is gunning for them. It dosent matter where we Jews are we are being hounded. Our collective lack of pride and independence have made us weak vulnerable and hounded. No wonder our youth are on the losing side of history. Its time we teach our kids to be proud strong and free!

Since Jews and beduin arabians are both semitic branches of the caucasion race how is this racism. Does anyone know the definition of racism? Does modern Hebrew only have one term for all the many forms of bigotry?

is how muslims treat their women. Or how they treat anyone who is different for that matter. Come to think of it muslims don't treat each other very well either. You know, if heaven is full of muslims, I think I'd rather go to Hell with all of the women.

Comment: I noticed the Sublime Censor did not post my innocent TB. I guess that if one throws around accusations of "racism," that's fine, but when such accusations are rebutted with comparable vigor, it is to be deleted. Shameful. --- English guy hasn't bothered to address the evidence about Islam (including a relevant Koran verse) establishing that Islam is the religion of wife beating. I'd say that's "damnable and disgusting." It's also "damnable and disgusting" that he tries to manipulate post-Holocaust rhetoric to advance a religion and an ideology that is both anti-Jewish and anti-Western at its core. Muslims do not hold conferences about such matters--they just kill Muslim women who marry "infidel" men (as it instructs in the Koran). English guy doesn't mention that. Opposition to Islam is common sense for those who cherish Western civilization--its values and achievements. As I think I've told you before, English guy, your deceptions play well in Londonistan, but not with me.

I agree..might see you there:)

The first link in my #18 was to one book from an ongoing series of eleven books (so far). 11*240 pages=2640 pages at ~ $121 (discounted) and ~ $176 list. Is that more respectable? Or should I list some of the extensive work that has now been done analyzing the real (as opposed to claimed) history of Islam, such as, for example, the work of Bat Ye'or? I applaud you, however, for your interpretation that forbids slavery. Unfortunately, you provide no textual support from the Koran, Hadith, or Sirah. Nor do you quote anyone of recognized importance in Islamic scholarship now living who agrees with you. Indeed, Mo was very clear in supporting the enslavement of conquered people as "booty." Enslavement was also hereditary. What's more, the dhimma created an underclass that, while not quite slaves, were close to it. For example, dhimmi testimony was not acceptable in court, they could not truly own property, and they could be killed (and often were) on the say-so of a Muslim. These torments, of course, encouraged converts to Islam. While it might be overkill, I should point out that Arabia practices slavery today, as the recent unpleasantness in the US about a poor woman who was brutalized by one of the many Saudi princesses made abundantly clear.

Ok, let's forget about beating women, because I have started to wonder about those virgins waiting in paradise for Muslim martyrs. If those virgins are Muslims, won't they have brothers, fathers, uncles or maybe even Allah defending their honor against all those horny, over-sexed martyrs or will they be Jews, Christians or some other sort of infidel? If the virgins' fathers, brothers etc. start killing the virgins, because they've been lusted after or are infidels, how long will it be before paradise is devoid of virgins? I want to know, too, why Muslims are forbidden to drink "down here," but the rivers in their heaven are flowing with wine. Why does Allah in his infinite wisdom not grow some sort of skin flaps with peepholes over Muslim women's faces and spare the men all those horrid temptations? I think, there are a lot of things Allah and/or Mohammed just didn't think through too well. Actually, when I picture virgins in paradise, I see platoons of Catholic nuns in full habits, wearing steel-toed paratrooper boots, vicious gleams in their eyes, toting loaded-for-bear shotguns, cocked and ready to go. I think, the martyrdom for which Muslims are willing to die will turn out to be highly overrated and more hype than fact.

DO U people even listen to yourselves? Have U learned NOTHING? Substitute the word "Jew" for "Bedouin" or "Muslim" and you have a scene straight out of Nazi Germany,There are ,many passages in the Bible and Talmud that can be used to discredit Judaism.To conedemn whole faith groups or ethnicities as "unter menschen" IS the vilest form of racism imaginable.Your sordid rationalizations and excuses only serve to prove how perverted you have become, A shame to all mankind, Tank God many Jews reject this evil,

This is a good site. It debunks a lot of the ways "modern" Islam tries to make the Koran more palatable by assigning different meanings to words, because they think one doesn't know any better or won't take the time to research it. It's a bit tedious, if you don't like languages, but it is enlightening. http://www.faithfreedom.org/index.htm Prophet of Doom is good, too.

Islam will always be the thorn in your side that you can never be rid of, won't it? I've seen Jews on this site slamming Jesus (PBUH) and Ive seen Christians and Jews alike mocking Mohammad (PBUH), but I've never seen a Muslim insulting any prophet on this site. And for the supposed experts on the subject, if you open your eyes you will see that abuse of women and children exists in far higher rates in western countries. A large reason is because of the booze, the "freedom", the lack of education, and hey, guess what? The sexual frustration. Yes, these exist everywhere. Talk is cheap and building weak arguments is easy, especially when you rely on online sources which can't be trusted, which use twisted and inaccurate translations taken out of context and incorrectly interpreted. But hey, now that I've said this ill be described as an "extremist". Its so funny and sad really.

Islam will never be a thorn in my side,buddy because I wouldn't be bothered with it. As for the extremist thing..if the shoe fits,wear it.

Somehow, I never bookmarked this site, which was very foolish on my part. I've done so now.

Actually, the Quran was the very first legal document which provided for widespread women's rights. The Quran provides for alimony rights, divorce rights, witness rights, protection against advantage, the right to refuse sex with ones husband (the Quran clearly states that if a wife says no then her husband must not touch her), etc. Sure the rights were not as advanced as today's but for the time in which they were first put into service, they were revolutionary. Indeed for over a thousand years, the Quran provided the greatest rights for individual women of any legal document. Just because modern practitioners, in light of modern philosophy, are archaic in their practices towards women, does not mean that the Quran has transformed into something oppresssive of women. People mess up religon: how else could followers of Jesus Christ believe he would support war in any form. Throughout history porported Christians championed massacres and genocide. Remembre that even in the US, a woman was property until 1917, and her husband could lawfully beat her with a stick no thicker than her thumb. The British were first to give women suffrage and that was little over 100 years ago. All other countries were decades after that in their provision of womens rights. Is it no surprise after humans have been around for 100 million years that we are just now getting around to equal rights.

Do you know how tiresome it is to read the same crap over and over again from TBers who are too lazy or too intellectually dishonest to read the TBs they comment upon? I condemn Islam as a religiously based political ideology and program. Simply because some set of ideas happens to be a religion, it does not follow that it is to be welcomed. It depends on the content of that religion. There is good and evil in all of us. The problem with Islam is that it is fundamentally evil, and therefore it intensifies the evil in those who believe in it. Since you like to substitute one word for another and derive meaning from the exercise, may I suggest that you substitute the word "Nazism" for "Islam"? They have much in common, although Mo was a much, much better political manipulator than Hitler was.

So which Islam-apologist web site did you get this stuff from? Please provide the relevant passages from the Koran, the Hadith, and the Sirah. All else is wind. Be aware that I will track down any references. So, please, for example, do not provide ahadith that are considered authentic by Muslim authorities. Other readers should peruse the convenient _Politically Incorrect Guide to Islam_, chapter 5 ("Islam Oppresses Women"), where an extensively documented discussion of this topic can be found. I do get a good laugh, though, from comments like "Just because modern practitioners, in light of modern philosophy, are archaic in their practices towards women, does not mean that the Quran has transformed into something oppresssive of women." In other words, the "modern" Muslims are "archaic" but the original Islamic texts were progressive. I guess that means that the Saudis and notables at Al-Azhar University (Cairo) need to become as familiar with these texts as you are.

Your aqssessment of islam is completely flawed. You should read the RamBam's (A"H) comparisons between isalm and xtianity, to see that islam is no worse than xtianity but in fact "better" in that it believes in the Absolute Unity of G-d (a-ll-a-h-a in aramaic). Its essence is good, it is the "klipot" that causes all the problems. Thus a good person who is born into a muslim environment can improve themselves and their communities through islam. As two very simple examples, Malaysia is a muslim country and the inventor of micro-financing which provides incentives for capaitalists to provide loans to the poorest of the poor is also a muslim. Contrast this to the "muslim country" iraq and the "muslims" who invented or perfected suicide bombings. Good people will use isalm for good, and bad people will use it for bad, as they will do with any other religion.

People who want to do evil will take even the most pristine religious btext in terms of "holiness" (torah/a-taurat) out of context to serve their own interests. This is the opinion of the jewish sages and they used the fact that the clearest and most unambiguous statement on the absolute indivisable Unity of G-d (a-ll-a-h-a) in the torah (the sh'ma') was taken out of context to justify polytheism in the form of a "trinity"!!! If the torah can be used wrongly to justify such a soul-destructive belief, how much more can other otherwise useful religious texts. Paraphrasing the sages "whoever wants to err will err":-).

inscription inside one of the mosques on the Temple Mount in Jerusalem. The reward for martydom is NOT 72 virgins. It is 72 golden raisins which was a delicacy long ago. The words were not translated correctly in the books. There is something I admire about the Moslems: they pray three times a day like Daniel in the Bible did. How is it that the Judeo-Christians religions do not follow the noble prayer schedule example of Daniel in the Bible while the Moslems do?

Beautifully put. Of course, you are a voice crying out in the wilderness. The response from teh Sick man in #49 is typically self-serving racist crapola. So difficult to believe trhat a seemingly educated person cannot see that the mirror images of his Arab/Moslem hatred is Jew-hatred. When he says "may I suggest that you substitute the word Nazism for Islam, he has in essence dug his own intellectual grave. I suspect it would be very difficult to find any greater or more ignorant racist around - but then I'm always surprised at the level of gutter bigotry that is expressed on this site. Well said Mr Canadian. Your words are poetry: "There are ,many passages in the Bible and Talmud that can be used to discredit Judaism.To conedemn whole faith groups or ethnicities as "unter menschen" IS the vilest form of racism imaginable."

Notice that these guys don't even bother to provide evidence on "women's rights" from the three key sets of texts of Islam. Women should be beaten if they don't put out on demand; their legal testimony is worth half of a man's; and so on, and on. It's all spelled out in the "Women" section of the Koran. These guys play their dishonest games and, when shown to be lying, change the subject. Note that my first specific reference to the Koran was in response to #11, who flat out lied about the Koran. "Your words are poetry: "There are ,many passages in the Bible and Talmud that can be used to discredit Judaism." I guess by "poetry" you mean "bad Islamic poetry"? Oh, and about those "many passages"-- care to get specific? I'm sure you are both Talmudic scholars and can easily find exhortations from there to enslave others and beat one's wife if she won't put out.

Apparently the Sublime Censor (PBUH) deleted my TB because I refered to a certain Prophet as a scoundrel. I was not aware that Israel had been put under sharia yet or had become part of Eurabia. However, under protest, I will slightly modify the TB. --- I appreciate your TBs, especially because they have great merit of novelty (at least in this forum). However, your analysis is seriously flawed, for three reasons. (1) You do not consider the historical context in which the Rambam was writing. Specifically, he was a dhimmi and, given his prominence, would have been killed immediately for "insulting Allah or His Prophet." His own comments about the dreadful weight of his dhimmitude should be well known to you. The idea that he would ever end up saying Christianity was better than Islam is preposterous. (2) The Rambam is not an Islamic source, very obviously. The question is not how he or any other Jew or Christian interprets Islam, but the basic texts themselves and how Islamic scholars have interpreted them. Islam does not weight sages comments (even if they are Muslims) with nearly the weight that are given to the Koran, Hadith, and Sirah. (3) The point that any religion can be read in such a way that it encourages evil is well taken. However, it does not follow that all religions are as easily susceptable to being used in this way. Mo, in my opinion, was a bad man who provided a terrible example, unlike, say, Jesus, who, though utterly wrong and confused, was a good man and an educated one. So, Christians can pretty easily justify not killing Jews or enslaving others--it's easy to "reinterpret" the Bible this way, as the original "New Testament" is not a manual for military conquest and subjugation. Islam is very different, as the original texts themselves are the problem. Sometimes someone trots out a verse that seems very progressive--and it turns out that it was superceded by a later verse (the Koran is ordered by the length of the verses, not chronologically). Again, I think Christianity has much to apologize for, in its historical treatment of Jews particularly. I am not whitewashing anything.

First, I notice that you still have not provided any textual support from the three main sets of texts that disputes the proven claims that I (and others) have mounted here. Second, that Muslims do not "mock" Jesus or Mohammad or other "prophets" shows Islamic intolerance. In a tolerant religion, even the biggies are sometimes criticized. Third, in reality, Islam institutionalizes mockery of Christians and Jews by asserting that Moses, Jesus, etc., are simply pale harbingers of the really IMPORTANT "prophet" Mo. Christians certainly would not appreciate you stripping the divinity from Jesus. What's worse, is that you do this diminishment of other religions while pretending to show respect. Fourth, despite your claptrap about "Jesus (PBUH)," your religion has singled out Christians (and Jews) for murder, slavery, dhimmitude, and conversion. Fifth, you assert: "if you open your eyes you will see that abuse of women and children exists in far higher rates in western countries. A large reason is because of the booze, the "freedom", the lack of education, and hey, guess what? The sexual frustration." The assertion that abuse exists in "far higher rates in western countries" is not only unlikely given the main Islamic texts, but is manifestly absurd. Islam institutionalizes abuse of women, with their burkas, their inability to drive, their lack of standing in court; with polygamy, with genital mutilation, and so on. That "western countries" have a "lack of education" is so absurd that it's laughable. Educational backwardness, I note, is powerfully correlated with Islam. That booze causes abuse is likewise absurd, as a properly licensed therapist would tell you. The "sexual frustration" might be less in Islam because one can beat his wife if she won't put out, and there are no forced child marriages (a practice which is rape by parents' permission). Sixth, if my arguments are "so weak," I'd love to see counterarguments WITH EVIDENCE. Seventh, if the translation that I used of the relevant verse is inaccurate (most unlikely), I'd be pleased to see one that disagreed with the one I posted. The problem is your religion, pure and simple.

It is a shanda (shame) on the Jews of Kiryat Gat that they rely on Islamophobic rhetoric and misconstrue the Q'uran in order to make their point. The problem is mysogyny (degredation and hatred or and disrespect of women and girls), which is present in some sectors of Jewish culture as well. The solution is not to demonize Jewish-Bedouin romantic relations, but to combat sexism and domestic violence (which includes boyfriend-girlfriend) through mandatory, ongoing, culturally -competent, public education on the matter, through tougher sentencing for hate-crimes (based here on sex of victim), and through each sub-culture (Jewish and Bedouin) elders raising their kids for peace, teaching them to honor the other at least as much as they would their own. On that note, fostering romantic relations might go a long way, and if kids are born of those relaitons, all the better -- it is more difficult to hate each other and wish for the other's demise when you share grandchildren and great-grandchildren. Until then, Israeli Bedouin have a lot of work to do to change attitudes and practices toward women (including forbidding and seriously punishing so-called "honor killings" that are more accurately called terrorist murders of women (serve to terrorize 1/2 the poplation that are women)), meanwhile, the Israeli Jews have a lot of work to do to change attitudes that demonize even Israeli Arabs and to stop using the Q'uran (mis) quotes as scare tactics that encourage segregation.

Misogyny is misogyny is misogyny. It should not be tolerated by any people or culture. The culprit is not Judaism or Islam or Christianity or Hinduism or Buddhism or any other religion. The culprit is patriarchy, which exists in all of those religions and cultures. There are bad, selfish, immature, and hate-filled men in every culture, just as there are good, kind, mature, loving men in every culture. It is up to the good, grounded, and loving men to train their sons not to hate or hurt women, and to not tolerate it if women - of any group - are attacked. What are either mayors doing to educate their young people to truly respect one another, not just to stay away from one another? Oh, and just to clarify: eveyone involved was Israeli -- the Bedouin are just as Israeli as the Jews, and some of Israel's heroes were bedouin (like the guy who started the Givati patrols).

Yes, the Koran and Hadith include some terrible claims regarding women and seem at times to encourage mistreatment of women. This is indeed grotesque. It is also grotesque that religious Jewish men are taught to say, when they wake every morning, thanks to G-d for not making them a woman ('cause Lord knows, a woman is an awful thing). A Jewish man is instructed not to walk between two women or two donkeys or two pigs. Nice analogy, huh? Both the Islamic and the Jewish texts contain much that is hateful of women ('cause they were written, or recorded, depending on your belief, by men who were in power and had avested interest in maintaining that power?). We are stuck with the texts. What matters is how they are taught. It is true that many (but, sadly, not all) Jewish communities no longer teach boys to thank HaShem that they are not girls, and that Progressive Judaism allows and celebrates egalitarian participation. It is also true that Islam has not gone through the reforms that have evolved Judaism. Still, both faiths, in their orthodoxy, relegate women to literally-behind-the-scenes status. Modern Muslims may have some helpful things to learn from Modern Jews and Christians and such. Nonetheless, the problem remains sexism, not Judaism or Islam.