Opinion  Aviad Kleinberg
Sweet lies and empty words
Aviad Kleinberg
Published: 21.07.07, 16:22
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26 Talkbacks for this article
1. Pope
M. Hartley ,   Atanta, US   (07.21.07)
Like him or hate him, Catholic or not, he does have a Teutonic directness about him that can be oh, so irritating. Worst of all, he won't apologize for it, either.
2. Pope believes in telling truth to Muslims?
Steve ,   US   (07.21.07)
After offending Muslim sensitivities at University of Regensburg, isn't this the pope that prostrated himself like a dhimmi? He was shocked that he offended Muslim sensitivies and very sorry that he offended Muslims. Yet he's not sorry when he offends Jews. Didn't Pope Benedict XVI remove his shoes, pray in the Blue Mosque facing Mecca? Didn't he humiliate himself and his church? This is the man that joined Hitler Youth, albeit under compulsion. But didn't Jesus die for his faith? How much more the Vicar of Christ on earth?
3. #2 Steve - Thanks. That needed to be said.
Mark ,   Philadelphia   (07.21.07)
4. to#2
toni ,   US   (07.21.07)
what you said makes sense.if he prayed in mosque as you said,that's the worst thing i ever heard. how one can give more respect to other's faith than his own?
5. If Jesus was around today,he would pray
jason white ,   afula,israel   (07.21.07)
with his fellow Jews in a Synagogue and not any church! So old Benny better rethink,before he speaks again.
6. Pope Benedict XVI
Akira Takamitsu ,   Philadelphia, USA   (07.21.07)
I am Catholic, 20 year of age. I find offense to your comments about our Pope Benedict XVI. He is a great leader for our own Catholic people, just as Jewish people have own religious leaders. We don't legislate what you do in your faith life, why is that you criticize this Pope, and his decision to allow for return of traditional Latin Catholic Mass. Many prefer it to the modern Mass we did have. Many times Catholic authorities have said the offense prayers against Jews have been delete from the traditional Latin Mass in 1959. What is it that you don't understand? Delete means that it is gone, no used or practiced anymore this prayer. So with it gone, I don't understand why there still is a problem. As for the declaration about religion and the True Church, this has been old Catholic belief for a thouand years. Why would anyone take offense to something not new, but which was well known as a part of the Faith. Sometimes, I think that some people (any group) take offense and makes a big issue about something of the Catholic Church not to question or protest Catholic policy, but to stir up anti-Catholicism bias and hate around the world.
7. Why is it that Efrat and Afula house such sensible people?
sk ,   USA   (07.21.07)
I'm serious.
8. Oops, I mean "Eilat"
sk ,   USA   (07.21.07)
9. Akira, I think you have made a mistake...
sk ,   USA   (07.21.07)
I, for one, think the Latin Mass is a nice change (assuming that the bit about the Jews has been deleted), not that my opinion should count for much with you. It is a reasonable complaint, however, if the pope is praying in a major mosque in the direction of Mecca. Is this true, or don't you know?
10. It should be the Jewish view too.
Josh   (07.22.07)
Jesus came to punish the Jews for G-d - or so he said. "I have not come to bring peace but war" - to the Jewish people of course "I wish the axe had already been put to the root of Israel" - meaning the curse of fallen Israel Preach not to the Goyim, but the fallen Jew was his message. Not the Jew in Temple - but the Jew not observiing Shabbat or ignorant of Torah laws (which he tested in his questions). If Satan is G-ds punisher and accuser - it is not a far cry that G-d would use him to administer the curses in some way. Jesus said he saw Satan fall from heaven in a lighting bolt. He also recieved his power (not a god himself but a man possessed with anothers power) from a spirit of heaven that fell in a lightning bolt. His words were "Get yee behind me Satan you shall be the foundation of my church." So when you compare politicians to the Pope - you are hitting below the belt. Israel was told on their demanding they have a king like other nations, that they would be cheated and lied to and that they only need to answer directly to G-d. Now-a-days we have rabbis, and polititicians playing the roles of kings. The truth is we are still lied to and cheated only now it is not just money but the life of the soul in jeapardy. For this G-d said he would not listen to our plees as we di not listen to his advise. Israel should distance itself from curses and return to G-d and Torah (the pashoot - Moses' words - and not some Rabbi collection of power grabbing and oposition-discrediting collection of books.) One G-d one love
11. Policy of desperados
Adam ,   Poland   (07.22.07)
Pope Benedict XVI sooner or later will face International Crime Tribunal for reiforcement of Vatican’s policy that effectively prevented course of justice in persecuting priests pedofiles. He needs now more and more founds to pay the compensation to the victims of the sex crimes, so he needs to invigorate the sources of founds.
12. #6 Akira
Adam ,   Poland   (07.22.07)
Please learn something about the history of your Church that for centuries was the main driving force of mass murder of pogans and non-Catholics around the world. The pope promised to remove the anti-Semitic verses from the Church’s teaching. Has he going to scrap the letters of St. Paul or the verses from John’s Gospel? Of course, not. The hipocrysy is the foundation of this Church and that shapes the ‘morality’ of its leaders. Hiding of the pedofiles in the Vatican is only one of the many examples. Cheers Adam, former Catholic
13. Golden Rule
Stephen ,   Lowell US   (07.22.07)
Do Unto Others as you would Have them Do Unto You. He Can get along with you and this is How He does his Part. II know the Sheep of Israel Have not been Fed. I also Know that to Deny the Son is to Deny the Father. No~ Matter whose Public Corporation say's it is Blasphemy. So I will Not Knock the Pope for what He is Doing for our Messiah. May the Sheep of israel be Fed as gentiles of all the Nations must be as Well . The Diet is of Course the Sacrifice of Womanly Ways of Fleshlyness. leading to the Spiritualization of The Image of MAN as Made in the Beginning.
14. Some remarks on #2, #4 and #5
Roman Catholic ,   Germany   (07.22.07)
The obsession with the Pope is getting ridiculous, especially since most of the posts here are based on wrong facts or half-truths. In other words: Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. @ #2: First of all, I am sick of this cant that the Pope loves the Muslims but hates the Jews. What’s the point of your remark that he was sorry about offending Muslim sensitivities but does not apologise for offending the Jews? The official statement after his speech in Regensburg was that there is nothing to take back and nothing to apologise for, however, the Pope is sorry if his comment has been misunderstood as an offence against Muslims. Why should he apologise to the Jews? The Latin mass has been reinvented by John Paul II in the 1980’s; the prayer for the conversion of the Jews has not been prayed since the early 1960’s and will not be prayed in the future. Though this prayer is still in the liturgy we never use it. We usually pray for the Jews instead of praying for their conversion. Benedict XVI only abolished the precondition that a priest who wants to hold a Latin mass needs the permission of his local bishop. The most pathetic point of your statement is the reference to the Pope’s membership in Hitler’s youth combined with the remark that Jesus chose to die for his faith. He was 14 years old when he has been forced to join Hitler’s youth. Just for the record: He has not been Pope yet in 1941. Seriously, do you expect a 14 year old boy to choose to die because he does not want to join Hitler’s youth? @ #4: By praying in the mosque the Pope did neither humiliate the Church nor did he pay more respect to other’s faith. The interfaith dialogue with the moderate Muslims is very important and his prayer in the mosque was a strong sign as much as John Paul’s II prayer at the Wailing Wall in Jerusalem in 2000 has been very much appreciated in the Church. @ #5: You don’t have the slightest clue. If the Jews would have respected Jesus and his message back in the days, we would not have a church today. I am sure Jesus will be kicked out of a Synagogue straight away if he enters it and tells his “fellow Jews” that he is the son of God himself.
15. God bless you Akira !
Follower of Jesus ,   For ever   (07.22.07)
Sorry sk, I think, and it is my humble opinion, Akira made no mistake. Could the Pope decline the invitation ? You might as well ask him to come down to Jerusalem that he may enter a synagogue and then pray to the wall (the older one). First invited, he then refused to come because some said he would not be welcome (Alternately hot and cold shower!). Too bad as some confidence would certainly have been restored. In next future, we probably may be given an insight into his reasons of doing it. (going to a Mosque) "Wherever the Good News of Jesus was preached, it met the same opposition as Jesus did, and many of those who began to follow him shared his suffering and death. But no human force could stop the power of the Spirit unleashed upon the world. The blood of martyrs has always been, and will always be, the seed of Christians." ""Ask and you will receive; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. For everyone who asks, receives; and the one who seeks, finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened" (Lk 11, 9-10). And again: "Whatever you ask for in PRAYER with faith, you will RECEIVE" (Mt 21, 22). I guess He will receive what He asked for with faith, even in the peril of his life... But he has no fear in the hand of the Father. True Catholics have no fear either. Even if he entered Jerusalem on a donkey, please welcome him or cut off your ties (If any) with the Roman Catholic Church which has to endure constant critics. It's as unpleasant as unfair!
16. Akira I understand u, I am offended by ur Pope's lack of
respect 4 my Jewish ,   religion   (07.22.07)
17. Akira & don't bother coming back at me with that "Veritas
Israel" propaganda ,   of Catholic Church!   (07.22.07)
18. Judaism is the true rock of faith
the Catholic church ,   is Babylon's whore   (07.22.07)
19. to roman catholic #14
ash ,   gush etzion   (07.22.07)
jesus never said according to the gospels that he is the son of G-d, that was decided by the pagan constantine centuries after jesus died. if you are thinking that when he referred to G-d as 'father' then that is meaningless as Jews still to this day as 'father' as do christians. jesus' law was the jewish law, he was not observant but he didnt create a new religion because A) he never attempted to B) very few people, if any, followed him. the jews had far more successful false messiahs than jesus, just look what happend with shabtai zvi
20. Pope Benedict
Frederick Jones ,   England   (07.22.07)
How refreshing it is to have someone like him. Oddly enough he is merely reminding people of what Vatican II really taught about the Papal Primacy, the Church and the Incarnation. In reminding us what his Church has always taught he does us all a service, no one can be deluded. Jews, Moslems, other Christians, can all be sure that no issues are fudged.
21. #14 roman catholic
Keren ,   SP-Israel   (07.22.07)
Why do you" usually pray for Jews"? Why are you so obsessed with Jews?
22. Roman Catholic
Ehud ,   TA   (07.22.07)
1. This is a very favorable article about the current Pope, very sympathetic. in contrast to many pieces written in German newspapers. So, what are you sick and tired of? 2. The question of where Jesus would pray today is one of faith. It doesn't make sense to argue about it, especially since most of our sources have never actually met Jesus (neither the 4 evangelists, nor Paulus). Historically, though, he did pray in Synagogues and the Temple.
23. Re: Roman Catholic #14 (Germany)
Steve ,   US   (07.22.07)
Thanks so much for your thoughtful response. Please allow me to respond. I hope you do not mind if I am blunt because this is a serious topic and because of the great prestige a pope has in the eyes of the world and what I believe to be a huge moral and spiritual obligation before God. First, I did not say the Pope loves the Muslims. I believe you are accurate in stating the official response was "that there was nothing to take back and nothing to apologise for, however, the Pope was sorry if his comment has been misunderstood as an offence against Muslims." But what he did subsequent to this when he visited Turkey --- where the Muslim mob was seething with rage at his words in Regensburg --- to me was full of import. He entered the Blue Mosques shoeless and prayed facing Mecca. Muslims around the world rightly took this to be an act of obeisance, deference and homage, as before a superior religion and a superior deity (Allah); an official act of prostration. I do not expect any apologies from the pope. I do not need any apologies. However, if the pope prays to the same God as I pray, why does he meet with and give comfort to my enemies who want to destroy me and my people? Why did Pope John Paul II meet with a bloody terrorist murderer (Yasir Arafat) with much innocent Jewish blood on his hands? Why did Pope Benedict meet with a Muslim terrorist (Mahmoud Abbas) with much innocent Jewish blood on his hands? Please do not compare the pope with a politician who meets with enemies of God. These men are not ordinary politicians. Pope has responsibilities before the Almighty above and beyond ordinary politicians. Pope Benedict condemned terrorist attacks in Britain, Egypt, Iraq and Turkey but did not mention a bombing in Israel that killed many Israelis. Israel asked the Vatican to explain why Pope Benedict failed to mention a deadly Palestinian attack in a speech voicing sympathy for other nations struck by Islamic suicide bombers. The Vatican told Israel that it would not take orders from anyone. The Vatican rejected claims that Benedict and his predecessor had failed to condemn Palestinian attacks on Israelis over the years. "The Holy See cannot take lessons or instructions from any other authority on the tone and content of its own statements," the Vatican said. Yet Vatican condemns Israel for defending herself. Does Pope Benedict read the same Holy Bible as I read? If he does then he should know that the Almighty gave the land of Israel to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and to their descendants forever by covenant --- all of it. Why does the pope join with the enemies of Israel who want to divide God's land and give it to our enemies? Whose side is the Pope and your church on? Are you on God's side or are you on the side of our enemies?
24. Take the Pope like he is
Itzik ,   Haifa   (07.22.07)
Very good article, and of course #2 is also correct. Believe me , 150%, that when Abbas says he wants "2-state" he means he wants to kill all Jews but he must say ... . You are stupid if you do not understand the Pope or Abbas. Absolutely stupid, my friends.
25. Pope Benedict XVI thinks the Catholic Church is the only...
Rivkah   (07.26.07)
way to heaven because he does not read the Bible, apparently. Was the Catholic church around when God formed the earth? When Adam was formed? When Abraham was told the world would be blessed by his seed? When Joseph rose to the second highest office in Israel? When David slayed a lion and a bear? Are ALL the patriarchs going to hell because they did not belong to the Roman Catholic Church? It is more likely the members of the Roman Catholic Church are NOT going to heaven since they worship three gods and do not even pray in the name of Yeshua they SAY they worship. They pray in the name of their three gods: the father, the son, and the holy spirit. Yeshua warned his followers of wolves in sheep's clothing. Mary Walsh's essays are in the Library of Congree if not available anywhere else. She is a former Roman Catholic Irish nun who compares Yeshua's teachings to the Roman Catholic Church teachings. There is quite a difference, but the Pope says only people who are Roman Catholics go to heaven. They will be utterly surprised at their exclusion, I fear.
26. truth
ROBERTA KAUFMAN ,   KANAWHA ST ALBANS   (06.05.10)
the burden of christ is light. there are so many whys but sometimes tracing the paths to the hows is more than mere humans could absorb in this flesh and so he gives us doses the more we travel in spirit the more we pray the more we give to him the more he gives us somehow there will be one holy church and my only take on this is that while i am certain there may be catholics in that crowd there will also be others from other churches perhaps some who only worshipped christ on a sidewalk with an open heart and embedded bible in there heart that they shared in there lives every day i think who is worthy of the gift of redemption christ gave us and every day i think no one especially not me there is the beginning of understanding who could possibly enter heavens gates
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