Jewish Scene
'Green light' for civil marriage in Israel
Neta Sela
Published: 18.07.07, 20:31
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27 Talkbacks for this article
1. What's wrong?
Inyaki ,   Bilbao, Basque   (07.18.07)
What's wrong if both are Jewish ( according to Halacha) but do not wish to get married under the "official" orthodox Rabbi , why can't they get married within the civil law? Mariage is a completely civil affair. Maybe then they wanna have a "chupa" with a reform, conservative or a hippie Rabbi. Why should a state recognise the monopoly of one of our sects, and not the other. Why can a Rabbi from a mystical sect of Chabad be considered kosher, while a serious scolar from a Reform movement be banned from the ritual?
2. No problem if two non Jews want to get married
Mordechai   (07.18.07)
It's no problem if two non Jews want to get married in a civil ceremony. I think the state sould give them a green card to the US as a wedding present. These non Jewish pretend immigrants will never be happy in Israel. We should do everything we can to help them go somewhere where they can be full parts of the society
3. To each his own.....
M. Hartley ,   Atlanta, US   (07.18.07)
And just when I thought I didn't understand a thing about any of this, along comes a hippie Rabbi and a Rabbi from a mystical sect. I think, I know those two. They're from San Francisco
4. To #2
M. Hartley ,   Atlanta, US   (07.18.07)
Maybe those non-Jewish, pretend immigrants could be married by those not-quite-ordained, pretend Rabbis described in a previous article. How, btw., did those non-Jewish, pretend immigrants get into Israel in the first place?
5. marriage is "Law" ful union of man and woman
m   (07.19.07)
Marriage is a 'legal' union. Now is it 'civil' Law or is it religious 'Law' ?It is neither it is Gods Law. That is why marriage is recognised world wide by all societies, because it is the demontration of public vows in front of witnesses to be faithful to each other.It is also a deep primieval need to encorporate God into our whole lives, that is why many unbelievers don't believe in marriage not seeing the relevance for it.But God is "lawgiver.' and justice is what 'Law' is about.
6. To #2
שרה ,   ישראל   (07.19.07)
Actually...a lot of those "non Jewish pretend immigrants" are quite happy here in Israel. Myself being one of them. Curious a) why you think you have the right to judge someone and say they're "pretending" or whatever since you don't even know their situation and b) why you care. People like you make us "non Jewish pretend immigrants" wonder why we'd ever want to stop pretending...
7. Interesting what will be decided in the courts
Dorothy Friend ,   Tel Aviv   (07.19.07)
At one time, a single woman applying for state sponsered fertility assistance had to undergo psychiatric testing, visits by social workers, etc.Married women, by grace of the band of gold, were considered fit to be mothers at state expense automatically. A single woman took this to court. The courts decided that the law as it stood was discrimatory. This kind of testing had to be applied to all, or dropped. It was dropped, to avoid touching on the subject that perhaps their were married women out there that were "unfit" to be mothers. So in the end, I think there will be civil marriage for all who want it, or we will continue without civil marriage in Israel.
8. Is your Society so bad?
Manni ,   UK   (07.19.07)
I find it hard to understand that a nation that should be a "light unto nations" is so screwed up. You have a Chief Rabbinate so bereft of compassion that I refuses to tackle the problem of a persons right to get married, itself being investigated for corruption. Public figures are under scrutiny for financial misconduct, and sexual scandals. It would seem that Israel is a country with no ethics what so ever. If you want to be called a Jewish State then perhaps someone needs to go back and study Jewish ethics.
9. At least the 'pretend Jews'...
Matan   (07.19.07)
At least the 'pretend Jews' serve in the IDF
10. Das ist bullsh#t...
Hamburger ,   Hamburg   (07.19.07)
"...the agreement reached only refers to couples in which both partners are not Jewish. A Jewish citizen will not be allowed to marry in a civil court." Looks like non-jews will be free to marry, and that way they will get more rights than Jews, who are still restricted from marrying a non-Jew! How rediculous is that??
11. #9 + #10
Dorothy Friend ,   Tel Aviv   (07.19.07)
#9 There was a case a few years back where a soldiers body was dug up by the Hevra Kadisha felt he was Jewish enough to die in uniform, but not Jewish enough to be buried in a Jewish cemetary. #10 See my post - it may not stand up in court.
12. What about marriage for Jews?
JPS ,   Efrat   (07.19.07)
Orthodox Judaism will have to wake up one day and stop alienating the rest of the Jewish population. Instead of reaching out to them, there is no shortage of hate for the secular population. The result is thousands of couples every year who flee to Cyprus or elsewhere to get married. The haredim will have to figure out how to accommodate the secular population to make it easier and more attractive for them to get married in Israel. Otherwise, the gap will continue to grow, the hatred will increase, and as the haredim grow in numbers they will find a secular population that will stop supporting them financially. Any secular couple that wants to get married finds a religious bureaucracy that appears to be against them every step of the way. The haredim should make it more attractive for all Jews to get married in Israel, not Cyprus.
13. #12
Dorothy Friend ,   Tel Aviv   (07.19.07)
Great post - and you all know what I think about settlements in the occupied territories, but when you're right JPS, you're right. I know a number of couples who really wanted a wedding in Israel with a rabbi, but felt so alienated by the orthodox they fled to Europe to get married (sometimes marrying here in Israel with a reform rabbi before or after).
14. Confuse - so am I
Josh   (07.19.07)
According to the Chief Rabbinate, tens of thousands of citizens registered as Jews are not recognized as such by the rabbinical courts. ....A Jewish citizen will not be allowed to marry in a civil court. So if you are Jewsih in the eyes of a conservitive Rabbi and the State and the Orthodox don't recognize you - what are you? A jewish citizen who is unmarried! Enough who are these Rabbi's that stand in the nation Israle's way between love, G-d and family. It not an evil eye, its justice that will bring heaven down on the heads of these men for choosing to have a separate law for converts. For you were Gereem in Egypt. Good thing the Rabbis weren't around then or there would be no marriages and many illigitimate jewish forfathers.
15. Seperation of Religion and State NOW!!!!!!!
(07.19.07)
16. All Marriage Is A Civil Union.
Terry ,   Eilat, Israel   (07.19.07)
Marriage is a contractual agreement between two consenting adults (any combination) establishing rights & obligations. Period. People who wish to have a religious ceremony in addition can certainly do so. This supposed reform is basically a fraud which accomplishes very little to solve the problems of far too many Israelis.
17. Stop Freaking Out, You Right Wing Nuts
Raz ,   Rishlach   (07.19.07)
Many immigrants are Jewish, if only by father's side. Many of them and the simply non-Jewish immigrants want to and will eventually convert, or their children will, or they will intermarry and in a generation or two, their grandchildren will be deemed as Jewish as anyone by the state. With time, these immigrants will be absorbed into Am Yisroel. Stop freaking out.
18. This raises some interesting questions
(07.20.07)
If orthodox Jews only recognise religious "marriages" Does that mean every other humanbeing in the world of other cultures and races are not married in their eyes?
19. #1: ......a serious scolar from a Reform movement..." is an
(07.20.07)
OXYMORON!
20. marriage
poppy   (07.20.07)
A marriage under the cuppa should be for Jews. The civil marriage should be for the state. We know that in some countries when you get married you get married in both ways. Civil and Religious . The Rabbi has the legal right to marry you both ways. If you get married by Civil first, then when you are ready you can get married the Religious way , This will solve many problems
21. #12 -YES !!!!
lol   (07.20.07)
22. #2 ....will never be happy in Israel
Josh   (07.21.07)
What your not saying, is how a convert or a "non-qualified Jew", who loves Hashem - is shun by society like a plague unless they are cultish in their accpeptance of a religion that does not reside in the pashoot of Torah, but in the hearts of power hungry Rabbis and the sheep they lead. Of course they will never be happy if they are treated like crap even when they are good people in G-d's eyes. This is true in the treatment of the Ethiopian, Samaritans, etc. "For you were Gereem in Egypt" once a stranger in a stranger land you do to people seeking Hashem the same as Egyptians did to the Hebrews. How will G-d view it that you treat a hellenistic drug using Jew that claims he does not believe in G-d better than the returning root of Israel and the Prostelite who loves G-d? Why do you think Moses warned of doing this? Israel will suffer as a nation if it continues on this path - G-d will protect those who love him and prophecy will be fullfilled dispite bad religious training and the efforts of the Rabbis to shun returnees. If any returnees love Hashem, stay! (this means honoring HIS laws). Hahem reigns, Hasem has reigned. Hasem will reigned. Dont sucumb to brute force intimidation, you will be happy. Welcome home.
23. Josh , you wrote Shabbat !
charles ,   petach tikva   (07.21.07)
If you write Shabbat , you can also write god , and do'nt write that hasem [ sic] reigned etc .
24. Civil wedding .
charles ,   petach tikva   (07.21.07)
Why do two non Jews [ if they have the same religion ] need a civil wedding ? can't they go to their church , where their religious authority can also wed them , and this is recognised as an official one . Or will they have the choice : civil or religious ? in this case there is something wrong , because for Jews , there is not such a choice .
25. about time...
Jennifer ,   London   (07.24.07)
that this was implemented; its horrible the way that people who are Jewish enough to make aliyah and serve in the army are forced out of the country away from friends and family to get married because of some archaic idea of 'pure blood'. This is a start hopefully soon civil marriage will be available for anyone who wants to between Jews and non- Jews.
26. #24who says as a Jew I have no choice?
telavivit ,   Israel   (07.25.07)
27. Telavivit
charles ,   petach tikva   (07.25.07)
Yes , you have the choice between : a ] a religious wedding b ] a not recognised wedding [ such ceremonies are performed ] c ] Going abroad to wed there d ] live together without marriage Only in a] and probably in c ] will your children not have any problem To avoid such problems , i a secular living begalut when married , had also an Orthodox Rabbi who gave me "chuppa Kedusha" , this after been married at the town hall .
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