he did'nt say anything, when I got to my desk I told some other's and I was told your not supposed to greet each other on tisha b'av. Boy, I sure feel like a real ass now!

But we are back in our land now. True, we don't have the Temple back - Moshe Dayan made sure we wouldn't build it by giving the keys of the Temple Mount to the wakf - but we have sovereignity for the first time in 2,000 years. Is this fast even relevant for religious Jews any more??

of death) just like eating chametz on Pesach or not making a brit milah.

I was pleasantly surprised how many of my non religious co workers were planning on fasting. also last night in kikar safra there were many many people without kipot marching alongside us and the women in green around the old city. Hope isnt lost for the Jewish people. We just need some brotherly love to combat sinat chinam.

they are definitely along the lines of what I as a modern orthodox Jew was thinking. I can't help but think that if Tisha b' Av had been given a modern context for example if Israeli Memorial Day had been placed here on this date, then may-be we would all relate to it differently. It is unfortunate to think that this holiday continues to separate rather than unify the House of Israel.

I am personally not only do not know what is the day about, but even more I do dare to know about this. I do not go to synagog, I do not mind eating the kosher food, I do not mind to celebrate the religious holidays. So, what do you expect I will say about the 9 be-av? For me is the regular day. Thanks to God there are a lot of people in Israel, who share my standpoint.

You didn't know. Don't browbeat yourself over it.

The Ninth of Av should be a day of sadness. It has deprived the Jews of the chance to be a light unto the nations. If the temple existed from those far-off days, what a different world it would be.

The prophet Zechariah, in Ch. 7, asks "did you fast for Me" (G-d) Hence, commentators say this isnt Divinely commanded - it's a man made and non Torah fast day. So why are we obligated to observe a 25 hour summer fast?

Instead of saying "I don't mind" you should say "I don't eat kosher food." And concerning your talkback, you sound proud of this. But what is funny is you say "Thank God" there are others like you. How could you have grown up here and not know what the 9th of Av is???

secular or non-Orthodox Jews who want to observe this day, that's fine. My own feeling is that if someone drives me from my home into a long exile, and then I return successfully and rebuild my home, I no longer want to mourn the expulsion. It's something that was overcome. It's a holiday that was created for Jews living a world in which there was no Jewish sovereignty in the Land of Israel. Also, Holocaust Day, Remembrance Day for Fallen Soldiers, and Yom Kippur are enough for seriousness. Orbach knows that among secular Israelis almost all Jewish holidays are alive, far more than for all but Orthodox Jews in the Diaspora. He doesn't have to be so nasty about the fact that many secular Israelis don't connect with Tisha B'Av, there are respectable reasons for it.

Me too. I am not into the religious thing either. But I respect those who are into religion. But not over the top. I wish those religious folks would repsect my opinions.

I am a Roman Catholic Christian who, along with other Christians, is sharing in the fast of Tisha B'Av. I ran across this feast when I was researching the Jewish roots of Christianity. As it was explained to me, Tisha B'Av came about due to the paganization of Jerusalem, resulting in the First Temple being destroyed. At its heart, it is a reminder to people that our actions do have consequences, and that our G_D is not only a G_D of joy, but a G_D of justice. So today we are fasting as an act of love in praying for peace in Jerusalem and the glory of Israel. And in our fasting and in our prayers we are left with the question not even the most wise of rabbis can answer: "Why do they call it a fast when it goes so slow?"

If I was born and grew up here, it does not mean I must be an orthodox Jew eating the very kosher food. For me, I do not see any distinction between any Israeli citizens - arabs, jews, bedouins... - so long the State's law is not broken. So, be who you are and be that good. off: I am very glad that you never make typos in your life. You might be a perfect person, aren't you?

Why should I?! That's actually the answer. Why should I respect something that interfere in my own lovely privet life? If I do something or don't, I do tolerate any other ways of life so long them do not come in to my home. If they comes - I fight back. I do what I want and I am very proud of this, since it is ME, whether the majority like it or not. Just be who you are. That's the point.

By the very fact that there is such a commemoration attests to the fact that there was a Holy Temple which had been destroyed (twice). It is the historical event which links Jews to the Land. As our enemies throughout the world delegitimize our presence here, this day of mourning tells them that we were here 2,000 years ago!!

"I wish those religious folks would repsect my opinions." They wouldn't! You will never find any respect among religious ~ secular jews. Jews are divided into two equal parts: dati ~ hiloni and only tolerance may be between them.

the Fallen Soldiers? The Holocaust was over more than 60 years ago and you're still mourning it and trying to remember what the resha'im did to us? If you were born after the Holocaust or don't remember it, why mourn and why a Holocaust Day? What is the difference of mourning for the Holocaust you didn't live with and the Temples and the Jews who were murdered then?

The first sentence of my post #11 expresses that I can respect people mourning Tisha B'Av. As far as it commemorating massacres, one could also have a mourning day for the Chmielnitzki massacres of Jews in Poland in the 17th century and many others. The mourning on Tisha B'Av is strongly connected to losing sovereignty over the Land of Israel, that's what I don't emotionally endorse it.

To all who find no meaning in this day. Thank you. Thank you for helping our enemies destroy our beautiful heritage Thank you for helping our enemies destroy our identity. Dosen't it bother you that Arabs respect the temple mount more than you? Dosen't it bother you that Arabs would harm you if you tried to pray there? And for the record, today IS the day to mourn ALL our tragedies! Oy meh haya lanu! For shame!

at the same time the minister of education wants to teach to arab children about the so called nakbah and the jews should not care about a real tragedy!

http://www.jewfaq.org/holidayd.htm Many things have occured on this date and will continue to happen on this date: Expulsion of Jews from Spain The Holocaust and many other events. It is not just about the destruction of the Temple...it is about the tragedies brought to the Jewish people. It is our ability to do the right thing...and restore Hashem's confidence in us.

the Holocaust was 60 years ago...get over it the pogroms were 40 years ago... get over it some Arab blew himself up and killed my friend 2 years ago.... get over it some Arab spit in my face 5 min ago... get over it so when do I get over it? do I wait 5 min or 2000 years, you tell me wise guy

If you intend to say something, don't put it in such a way as to say the total opposite! That's what you did when you used the phrase "I don't mind" (which means: it's okay for you). You should thank me for pointing this out to you! It sounds like you could very easily turn Israel into a state of all its citizens rather than the Jewish state. You are really lacking some basic education. I came here because it is Eretz Yisrael.

I was sitting on the floor in shul today really bumbed out. I was reading the kinot (in english). For those who never read them or read them in a language they don't understand, it talks about what happened to us when G-d let our enemies have their way with us. It happened in the times of the temples, and all through our history. There was a kina about the holocaust, about the corpses piled up in the street, and the starving people. It also talks about our enemies and their excitement to spill our blood, and to defile our women and kill our babies. When I was reading this, I was thinking about our enemies, Iran, Hizballah, PLO, Al-Queda etc, who are cleaning their guns, and there missle launchers, and just drooling about doing it to us again. The only thing we can hope for is for the Jewish people to come together, and for G-d to help us to finally destroy our enemies once and for all. Why did G-d let all this bad stuff happen to us? It says, that the reason is that we abandoned his Torah, and the Covenant. In other words we forgot who our creator was and why we are here. We are back in Jerusalem now for a reason, hopefully for the final time. I am hoping to be there very soon myself IY'H. We need to take this holiday as a call to all Jews to get together, and remember our Father in Heaven, who protects his treasured nation from the 70 nations. He gets "mad" when we forget about him and go after the idolatries of the nations. L'shana HaZeh B'Yiruashalaim

Talula do you realize there would be no holocaust or pogroms if we were still in Israel the past 2000 years. Hey if we can't cry about millions murdered and exiled 2000 yrs ago I don't see why we should cry about a holocaust 70 yrs ago

at least then secular people would know when it is, would give the opportunity for public ceremonies related to Tisha B'Av, and it would feel less like an ordinary day.

not the sovereignty over the Land. The Temples were the spiritual strength of the Jewish people and all the nations respected the Jews then. (How can you compare the murder of Chmielnitzki and the billions - yes, billions - of Jews murdered at the time our Temple was destroyed?) Besides that, we still haven't gotten any sovereignty over this country. We still have the galut mentality of "shnorr" which is quite accepted here - to receive billions of dollars in aid from the US and to be dependent on them. Also, is it called sovereignty if there's still expulsions - by Jews running this country, no less - Gush Katif and Amona. Surely, there's enough room for mourning, especially as such cruelty among Jews, didn't exist when the Jewish spirits were loftier - at the time the Temples stood. It would be extremely necessary for G-d to give us back the Temple and . And very soon, hopefully.

It seems that it is your English is wrong (sorry for such conclusion), because I said exactly what I said. I really DO not mind whether to eat pork or the very kosher food, which means I feel really as well comfortable eating pork in the milk sauce on Saturday Eve's as perfectly kosher food being invited to Chief Rabbe's dinner-table. In my turn, it seems you want a "jewish Iran" state with its restricted religious laws is build here? It also seems you are seconded for every oppositeness to your, as a representative of the haredim, way of life should be taught to 'understand', 'put up with', or (maybe. who knows?) some day put on to wear "black frock coat". It's your own life, which I do not care how live out. I also do not mind what you eat and how do you spend your Saturdays. The very question is why should I put up with perpetual interfering in my own private life? I am fed with all this stuff, ma'am. off: you've suggested to communicate? No problem. Everyone is warmly welcome to spend some Saturday, let's say in China restaurant, eating my lovely lobsters and mussels.