Jewish Scene  Rabbi Levi Brackman
Intermarriage rethink thanks to Noah Feldman
Rabbi Levi Brackman
Published: 04.08.07, 21:56
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1. Why isnt there more talk about getting spouses to convert?
David ,   Boston, USA   (08.05.07)
Include them and encourage them to convert to Judaism. Once people learn what Judaism is about I suspect at least 25%and maybe more than 50% of the non Jews married to Jews would want to convert.
2. I disagree rabbi
gabriel ,   mtl   (08.05.07)
u cant be accepting and forgiving to jews who chose to cut off 3000 years of traditions... herem acts as detterence, it just got to be done correctly.
3. #1 On Converts
Josh   (08.05.07)
Let me tell you that converting is not the answer either as the Jewish people mistreat converts also. Fact is it is Rabbinical teachings that have propigated a belief in Jewish society that they must harm anyone who does not hook-line-and-sinker their misguided teachings. Worse many have reshaped this teaching to harm converts even if they are doing Torah according to rabbinic teachings. Remember you were Gereem in Mitzriam. No rabbinc barogus to speak of in the desert. How can one who looks at Torah for G-d's sake follow Rabbis? Human beings should not be mistreated, cheated, or degraded if Israel is to be a light to all nations, Israel must be willing to show their love for G-d - if it exists within the confines of tradition and rants of Rabbi rubbish, such as Rashi. Israel must not loose focus on the message of Torah, love for G-d. Torah pashoot is the truth.
4. Stop forcing a religious way of life on them,
Rivki ,   Israel   (08.05.07)
Plenty of Jews dont keep Shabbat but they are not excommunicated, and barred, as converts are. Narrowminded attitudes in the UK are ridiculous. They have as much right as non observant Jews have, to choose how much Judaism they keep. They too, should be allowed to choose not to be fully observant( as are most of the United Synagogue groupees). So they go and they are welcomed by Reform Synagogues. Well done United Synagogue and their nonsense( as if THEY are SOOO holy ha ha). They and their children should be encouraged and welcomed the same as every NON OBSERVANT Jew in the United Synagogue. The encouragement and welcome will work wonders. But the British and their constipated sour attitude won't change.
5. reject the parents and you reject the child
jewish "child" ,   israel   (08.05.07)
as a halachically jewish child of a mixed marriage, I was ostracised by the community I grew up in and this kept me away from Judaism for 30 years. If you want to disapprove of the parents, that's one thing, but if you want to encourage the children of the marriage who are jewish to live a jewish life, you cannot treat them as pariahs. all that happens then is that you end up with mixed up children who don't know where they belong.
6. once again a disingenuous article
izzy d ,   jeru   (08.05.07)
Allow me to quote the author: The dilemma many have is that if the Jewish community is too accepting of those who marry outside the faith then it may encourage a trend that is an existential threat to the Jewish people First off this is a blatant LIE. I have heard this argument before but always in support of accepting assimilated Jews. This argument is a fabrication which I have NEVER found an orthodox Jew to employ as a reasonable stance. The REAL argument is such: If the Jew married a non Jew which (especially in the case of the cantor) Would be a Jewish male marrying a non-Jewish female, this would render their children NON JEWISH. So we have obviously gained headway as to understanding this particular Jewish mans feelings towards Judaism as not that important, after all it doesn’t bother him that his offspring aren’t Jewish. Lets us then continue and examine this mans home. Is it hard to imagine a home that is not accordance with Jewish law??? No. After all if his wife were to keep Halacha then why would she not convert? And if she didn’t convert obviously halacha isn’t a big deal in this household. Then examine the implications of a non-shomer shabbos cantor. There are CLEAR HALACHIC rulings in this case. IT IS NOT PERMITTED. In fact he can’t be counted as a member of the minyan. The cantor is a messenger of the congregation and the most lenient position I can find from orthodox, reform and conservative is that the cantor be acceptable to the people. So the author believes it more important to transgress Halacha, in order not to hurt this guys feelings. This author is a by-product of liberalism and religion mixed into a whining groveling semi man. Pathetic
7. intermarriage
Jewish Grandma ,   Jerusalem   (08.05.07)
I love you Rabbi, you are the kind of understanding young man that we need more of in. the orthodox community. You do not compromise Halacha you just love Jews.Kol Hakavod. I converted 40 years ago and have been for over 20 years teaching Jews ans non jews the Torah and seven laws of Noach. (My husband is today a Rabbi) You never know what will come out of that non Jewish spouse and it might be surprising.
8. Converts
NYC Girl   (08.05.07)
Ironically, many converts make better Jews than those of us who were born into it. Not only that, but I've seen cases where a spouse who converts to Judaism will sometimes get his or her secular partner to take more of an interest in religious observance, although, for some reason, it doesn't seem to work as well when the that partner is an Israeli. Or at least that's been my experience with the Israelis I've known who married non-Jews. In fact, one man I knew was told by the Orthodox rabbi, with whom his Christian wife was studying, that she was doing very well, but the husband was the one who was doing little to encourage her. What's even more interesting is that this particular woman had been raised on a farm in a rural part of England and never even met a Jew until she came to New York, and yet she was embracing the conversion with tremendous enthusiasm. Perhaps more rabbis need to encourage non-Jewish spouses to convert because they may be surprised at what a positive response they get.
9. My Non-Jewish Relatives
Last Jew of Family ,   US   (08.05.07)
My sister-in-law refused to convert, brought Easter eggs to the Passover seder and Christmas gifts for Hanukah, refused to circumcise her son and hates Israel. After 20 years she still uses her maiden name because ours sounds too Jewish. My brother-in-law refused to convert and likes to make antisemitic remarks. Jews like my siblings intermarry because they don't care about Judaism. None of my nephews and nieces identify as Jews or show any interest in Judaism. These recent articles about accepting the gentile spouse at synagogue are exaggerated. The truth is that the majority of intermarried families don't go to synagogue.
10. Intermarriage is rampant because there are no ramifications.
(08.05.07)
The Rabbi is ignoring what is really happenning in the Jewish community. Intermarriage is an epidemic all over the world. Most of the Jews I meet have only one Jewish parent. It's getting hard to find people with two Jewish parents. Jewish grandchildren are becoming scarce and that is the tragedy for Jewish grandparents who lost countless of family members in the Holocaust, and now their descendents will lose their Judaism through intermarriage.
11. What is ignored
Josh   (08.05.07)
The fact is marrying a Christian has its ramifications. If Jews were savy to what Jesus said, he said he came only for the fallen Jews, to "burn up the chaf". Jesus is the punisher and fullfiller of the curses and this is seen in his words. If a Jewish person finds himself surrounded by the Hasus worshipers, it is a good indication that curses are knocking at the door. It is a time where a Jew needs to ground themselves in Torah and understand the pashoot - it is not an empty thing. As Jesus said "I have not come to bring peace but war" one must clearly question what a person representing him is dooing on the doorstep. To bring this into a home is forbidden. Jesus said one day his followers would kill Jews for his namesake. His followers being fallen Jews. Anyone know there history? Anyone who reads Devareem 13 and understands the curses in the pashoot, can clearly identify who this man was. He does not match any messiach prophecy and he gets his power from another spririt fallen from heaven. So to sending a clear mesaage that this road is a forbidden road is ok. Both fallen jews (christians) and practicing Jews must look at the test of Torah, study and pass them to be in G-ds grace. One G-d one love. If a spouse cannot accept that, then don't wed. As a child growing up in a curse christian home, I can tell you it -don't send your children down that road.
12. #9
Logic ,   Israel   (08.05.07)
Your comment reminds me of the major benefit of being a secular Jew in Israel. Even if a secular person is totally uninterested in Judaism, he/she lives a defacto Jewish existence in Israel and the odds are extremely low that they will marry out of the faith for obvious reasons.
13. #11
Don Cameron ,   Newmarket, ON, Canad   (08.05.07)
I don't know what Bible you are reading; but I don't find the stuff you're quoting in mine. I read the "Old Testament" - Genesis to Malachi - and the "New Testament" - Matthew to Revelation every three years. About 30 years ago I realized that Jesus is Yeshua, the Jewish Messiah. He came as a Jew, to the Jews, to complete, not revoke, the Law and the Prophets. The Law punishes; Yeshua offers absolution for those who will accept it. Marriages across the Jewish/Christian line should be fulfilling, not dividing; strengthening both communities. We are siblings by adoption; ideally we should be one family.
14. When will the religious get real?
Sidney ,   USA   (08.05.07)
The people of Israel are much older than the religion of YHVH, created by the priests of King Josiah around 620 BC. Even their Torah does not ordain matriarchal determination of who is Jewish. That was added by later rabbis. It is time to go back to the origins of our people as a community not defined by a religion. The religion has been so fossilized that most Jews ignore it.
15. yeah, we're not good enough
mike ,   israel (formerly usa   (08.05.07)
i guess we goyyim are not up to par, will spoil the precious gene pool and bring the entire place down from within. yes, stay away from us lesser creatures.
16. It's hard being married to an Israeli
Lindsey ,   Fort Lee U.S.A.   (08.05.07)
My husband is an Israeli jew and I am an American non-jew planning on converting. I was not raised religously but I love judaism and the jewish community, especially Israelis for their warmth. However, I have never met a more difficult community to be absrbed by, and if it were'nt for the love of my husband and the mutual love and acceptingness of his family, the rabbis and haredim would have scared me off by now with their prejudices and narrow minds.I just hope I can find a decent sect and rabbi to convert with.
17. Thank you Rabbi Brackman!
MARLENE ,   FRANCE   (08.05.07)
You are a very good and wise man. You "walk the walk", and don't "talk the talk". You emulate the Almighty, who NEVER turns His back on his children.
18. #15 Mike, please read this
Logic ,   Israel   (08.05.07)
First, let me say that I've read many of your comments and appreciate most of your remarks, but I'm surprised at your reaction here. This has nothing to do with a "gene pool" or snobbery towards others. Jews are a tiny people and need to find a way to survive as a community. That's why there are rules. If too many marry out, there's no more Jewish people or Judaism. It's also one of the main reasons that nationalism helps small peoples maintain their existence and culture. Jews are not a missionary religion/ people, unlike Christianity and Islam and therefore are a very small people. The two large religions will never have this demographic problem and can afford to preach to Jews about survival.
19. to #13
Jewish grandma ,   Jerusalem   (08.05.07)
Marriage between a Jew and a Non Jew is not in accordance with any tipe of Jewish Law , a Jew should try to keep the Torah and it would be very difficult while living with a non jew as a spouse, but if it happens, we should pay attention to the spouse, explain to him or her that while it is not at all their falt, and they have the same value as people as the jews, it's the falt of the jewish partner that should of known better, maybe HaShem wanted him or her in that situation and they should know there is something they can do. It's difficult, I have been giving conversion classes for a very long time, they will encounter problems, especially in Israel, but it is not impossible and with good will that convert can make very big changes in himself and in the jewish family that she is in. Yes my dear, we are brothers ,all men are. but we should not marry each other without converting, it is irresponsable and not the will of HaShem
20. to #16
Jewish Grandma ,   Jerusalem   (08.05.07)
I feel for you, but don't judge haredis and Rabbis too quickly, there is all kinds, like everywhere, if I was`you I would go back to America and convert through a competent orthodox Rabbi, make sure that he is recognizes by the Israeli Rabinate. Good luck
21. Conversions
Robert Tilden   (08.05.07)
Linked to this issue is the topic of convertion. There are two ways a person can be Jewish, either he or she is born into it, or through a conversion. If a Jew marries a devout person of another faith then there is a stark choice. But in most cases a person like Mr Feldman comes across a person who might nominaly be Chritsian and might even have a denomonation, but is hardly devout. Just as likly, if not more so is that the person is not religious at all and might be described as agnostic or unreligious. Much in the way most Jews are towards the Jewish faith. That person might be open to convert, if it was not so difficult. The hoops one needs to jump through in order to get an 'I'm a Jew' stamp can be rediculous and this in the long term might be a big mistake. Even in Israel intermarriage is on the rise. If we remember that many children shift at how religious they are so that even is one of the spouces is not an observant Jew and indeed a convert to a lax form of Judaism, in the long term it would be better than the alternative, smaller and smaller Jewish populations and an ever decreasing Jewish percentage in Israel.
22. #9 - My heart hurts for you
Chaya ,   Bat Yam, Israel   (08.05.07)
It must be terribly hard for you to be around these people. I think the best thing you should do for yourself is to first of all establish a real Jewish home and then think seriously about coming to Israel.
23. 18
mike ,   israel (formerly usa   (08.05.07)
first, world jewry is in better shape than ever. just think about before this generation, when jews were always in actual danger of being wiped out. second, when all of intermarried male jews' children are not considered jewish, why complain about self-imposed limitations? third, if you believe what god said to abraham, then there is nothing jews can do to cause themselves to disappear by destruction OR assimilation OR intermarriage. if you are not religious, then this entire thing is a racial issue, which comes out rather offensive to the ones being looked down on. put yourself in our shoes. it is slightly insulting to be talked about as inferior at best, and and devious at worst.
24. Intermarriage rethink
Simon ,   London   (08.05.07)
Yes it is time to have a rethink. The theory that making intermarriage a taboo has been a complete failure. More over making conversion in to a process that is extremlely difficult puts many people off taking this step. The argument put forward is that by making the process virtually impossible measures peoples sincerity. Is that really a acurate way to guage a persons faith.? Now more than any time in recent history in a country like Britain you need guts to stand with the Jewish people. Few people choose progressive Judaism for any other reason than status issues. Therefore it should have occured to the orthodox establishment that if they ease the process of conversion that it would allow many more people to undertake the convesion. The progressives would then attract far less people and many more halachik Jews would become part of the Jewish world. But does anyone have the courage to take this step. ? There is the alterntaive view that if enough Jews from Progressives to middle of the road orthodox marry out then it leaves the way clear for the Right to grow and keep the religion "PURE".
25. #13 - what a number
Josh   (08.05.07)
Unlucky for those who failed the test, lucky for those who did. Deut 13. I am glad you asked. Remeber he is talking about Jewish families -mainly those who he calls fallen. Understand this is fullfillment of the curses of Moses: Matthew 10:34 "Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I came to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; and a man’s enemies will be the members of his household." Again speaking John of Jews and what Jesus is coming to do - remeber according to Moses only the fallen get curses - it can be assumed he is speaking about Hashem: Mathew 3:10 Even now the ax lies at the root of the trees. Therefore every tree that does not bear good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire. Mathew 3:12 "His winnowing fan is in his hand. He will clear his threshing floor and gather his wheat into his barn, but the chaff he will burn with unquenchable fire." Mathew 13:30 Jesus speaks of fallen Jews and obidient Jews "(30) ‘Allow both to grow together until the harvest; and in the time of the harvest I will say to the reapers, "First gather up the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them up; but gather the wheat into my barn."
26. I AM AN OTHODOX JEW............................
AVROHOM BILGREI ,   ZION   (08.05.07)
MANY YEARS AGO I WAS MARRIED TO A WOMAN WITH AN ITALIAN MOTHER;THNK G-D WE PARTED AMICABLY,BUT TODAY AT 54 I REMAIN UNMARRIED (AND CHILDLESS) IN AN INVIRIONMENT OF TREMENDOUS DISFUNCTION - 54% OF JEWISH WOMAN OVER 35 ARE UNMARRIED & THERE ARE 50,000 ABORTIONS EVERY YEAR IN ISRAEL SO, WHILE I WILL NEVER RETURN TO MY ERSTWHILE MARRIAGE PROCLIVITIES I THINK WE SHOULD FOCUS OUR ATTENTION ON THE JEWISH SINGLES HOLACAUST WE ARE PRESENTLY IN THE MIDST OF RATHER THAN POINT AN INCRIMINATING FINGER AT THOSE WHO ARE SURVIVING THROUGH ALTERNATIVE MEANS ! THESE PEOPLE HAVE FILLED A VOID IN THEIR LIVES,HAD THERE NOT BEEN A VOID (THAT THE COLLECTIVE FAILED TO ADDRESS)THEY WOULDN'T BE IN THE SITUATION ! BY THE WAY,HOW ARE THEIR CHILDREN BEING RAISED ? WE CAN ASSUME BUT,NO MENTION WAS MADE ! A CRISIS IS NO TIME FOR JUDGEMENT !
27. intermarriage
malka c. ,   israel   (08.06.07)
what ever happen to a good old fashion type wedding. We jews who are single why are we left out. We are too old or too frum or not frum enough. Jews wake up already
28. #13 - Pay closer attention
Josh   (08.05.07)
Revelation is Jesus Mortaly wounded and worshipped for his resurection Not with own power but recieving it from another - Jesus was struck by lightning of a fallen sprit from heaven. Jesus said he saw Satan fall in a lightning strike. Jesus said he came to bring war. Jesus was a fishermen of fallen Jews who talked of the punishment of fallen Jews. Yeshu goes by the name Hasus now interpreted as Jesus. Hasus is a horse an the horses of G-ds punishment have arrived. Did you really think there would be no curses fullfilled? Take a look around. Jesus said beware that many would follow sauying "I am the messiah." Note the I refers to himself. Many would say Jesus is the Messiah! He is not and fits not one single prophecy of the Messiah. The world is called to bow to a man who poses as G-d under revelation - Guess how that is accomplished. Through people selling a dead resurecceted man god. Moses talked of a great humiliation at the end of time - guess what that will be - Man worshipping his own monster the beast. Seek the truth - not what you want to hear. i is the only way back from the abyss. By the way if you are well read of Jesus, them why are you not doing Torah as he called on you to do, and why have you not returned to the father as he called on you to do? Jesus test each person and the ones that fail he collects and the ones that pass he sends back to Torah. You should read his words and think is he talking to a good Jew or a fallen Jew? This will help you make sense of his counterdictions - different audiences.
29. AH BRACKMAN,,,HE KNEW THE CONSEQUENCES WHEN HE MARRIES OUT
..............DACON9   (08.06.07)
AND YOU ARE AN INSULT TO TORAH. HE DOES NOT HAVE A PLACE IN THE JEWISH COMMUNITY FOR THE GREATER GOOD OF THE COMMUNITY..... CONVERSION FOR MARRIGE IS NOT VALID.... HIS CHILDREN WILL DISSAPPEAR. JEWISH WORLDS LOST FOREVER, UNLESS OF COURSE HE EATS BAGELS AND LOX SUNDAY MORNNG. THEN HE IS JEWISH OF COURSE....... HE DISREGARDED TORAH, HASHEMS LAWS... HE IS AN OUTSIDER... HE WILL ANSWER TO THE HEAVENS.. now tell me really..would you bring him and his children , non jews,, to play with your children,,,, is this the nation you want? woud you allow his son to date your daughter? is this serving hashem? teach me.. seperate yourself from the goyim. why do we learn that? do not follow the ways of the goyim why do we learn that what about deut 7..not to marry a non jew? i dont hate him i love him as long as he stays away from my community... you blackman have to go back to school. YOU ARE NOT ASHAMED OF YOURSELF..... BUT I AM ASHAMED OF YOU . BLACKMAN READ COMMENT #9 I CANNOT CALL YOU RABBI..I AM ASHAMED OF YOU..... ..
30. RELIGIONS HAVE ALWAYS LED TO SEPARATION AND DIVISION!
naro ,   nyc   (08.06.07)
Let's do away with religions all together. Various religious fantasies just divide people and create frictions. Religions are malignant, and counter productive to peace and harmony.
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