Opinion
Turkey's regional ascension
Jonathan Adiri
Published: 18.08.07, 20:05
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19 Talkbacks for this article
1. Really?
ralphsrant1 ,   USA   (08.18.07)
What about those secret peace talks I hear are going on in Amman?? http://ralphsrant1.blogspot.com/
2. Turkey is VERY important player in Middle East peace because
Rivkah   (08.18.07)
They control the Ataturk Dam which can shut off the waters of theRivers that run through Iraq. When those waters dry up, the kings of the East are prophesied to march across the dry land enroute to Armageddon, the last great war before the Messiah comes to judge the nations of the earth on how they treated the Jews who were Jews in their hearts. Turkey is also a VERY important player in Middle East peace because it is probably Togormah in the prophecies of Ezekiel in the Bible. Magog (Russia) and Togormah and Libya, Arabian Ethiopia (Saudi Arabia), Persia, Gomer, and other nations will attack Israel. Since Togormah MUST be in that attack, refusing to attack Israel will prevent or delay the war Ezekiel talked about.
3. A peace conference or War?
MARK ,   BOSTON   (08.18.07)
Bush is selling weapons to the MidEast to promote peace!
4. jacob/israels brother was esau/edom
yahn goodey   (08.18.07)
to the best of my knowledge the country of turkey is the main center of esau's descendants today.the book by our prophet obadiah is mainly a prophecy about esau's extinction-obviously at a future date since they still exist.the reason for this coming extinction appears to be because they eventually betray us in a future war.the book has only 21 verses and is written in plain terms.
5. While I agree with your TB, I do want to point one thing out
jason ,   usa   (08.18.07)
and that is NO ONE (Turkey) is going to prevent or delay for one na na second the war Ezekiel talked about. This event for sure is a moed in time. And it will happen exactly on Hashems time table. It is so interesting to see how all the players are lining up. Especially Russia, and how they are going back to their old ways with their new found wealth of oil which they stole from the owner of Yakos Oil. And China and Russia have now engaged in military manuevers. God's word is so right on.
6. #4. Esau/Edom is more likely Jordan because Petra is there.
Rivkah   (08.19.07)
The Edomites (descendants of Esau) dwelled in the cliffs of the rocks (Petra). Since the third of Israel who survive the coming wars flee to Petra, it is likely the Edomites are the Jordanians who are destroyed so they do not object to the supernatural protection of the Jews in Petra. Turkey is more likely Togormah that will join a Magog (Russia) led attack on Israel along with Moslem countries listed in Ezekiel ch. 38 and Gomer.
7. Oh Please stop the genealogy
Robert Tilden   (08.19.07)
Egypt is Egypt or Arab? In fact nomadic Arabs are known in the bible, the Beduin but the Syrians, Egyptians, Babylonians, Pheonecians etc were not considered Arab. Today, they are. As for the Turks, Traditionaly the first nation to call Turkey a home are the Hitites but by the time the biblical stories in the bible involving hitites were supposed to occure the Hitites were long gone. Modern Turks are late comers, conquering horsmen in the 14th century. Turkey is the most advanced state of a group of countries that go on all the way to China such as Azarbijan, Kyrgystan and Turkmenistan. Turkey is not only a bridge between Europe and the Middle east with the Arabs and Iranians. It also leads these countries some of which are enjoying the fastest economic growth rates in the world at the moment. Lets face modern real Turkey and not some mythological role playing fantasy.
8. #5 Jason: Jonah in the Bible was told to tell Ninevah
Rivkah   (08.19.07)
they would be destroyed in FORTY DAYS (GOD's Timetable, as you put it). The city of Ninevah REPENTED and their judgment was delayed for FORTY YEARS. King Hezekiah in the bible was DYING (God's timetable) but when he asked to live longer to finish some projects, God PROLONGED HIS LIFE by 17 years. SO, God's timetable CAN BE DELAYED by repentence or prayer for intervention and delay. If the Ezekiel ch 38 war is not delayed, it will be coming soon. If Turkey refuses to participate in that war, it has to be delayed if Turkey is Togormah. By the way, Turkey has 140,000 troops reported on the Iraq border who are battle ready. Syria is reported to have that many troops near the Golan Heights. It will be exciting to see all those enemies of Israel die in an earthquake and a plague that melts the eyes in Northern Israel, but delaying that is preferrable since I am sure those people do not want to die anymore than Israelis do.
9. reason i wrote comment was-history repeats itself
yahn goodey   (08.19.07)
israel should exercise caution in getting allied with a country that has a proven track record of being in the past the enemy and occupier of israel's land and people.same goes for the eu heart of the roman empire and its church.history has a way of repeating itself for those that ignore its past lessons.in the book of our prophet malachi 1:1-5 G-D says He hates esau/edom .i would think that anyone that loves G-D would give them a wide clearance.
10. Turkey's Regional Ascension
Laura Colatrella ,   Brooklyn, NY USA   (08.19.07)
I completely agree with Jonathan Adiri's assessment of Turkey and the failure of the West to recognize as a growing important force. As an American, I am heartbroken to see Turkey learn to resent us and dislike us as a result of our failure to intercede to stop the terrorist actions of the PKK. I am also heartbroken to see us lose a friend who has been as loyal as Turkey through the years. Even now, with everything going on in Iran and Iraq, my Congress has decided this would be a good time to issue a statement condemning Turkey for the conditions existing in the 1920's as the Ottoman empire collapsed, Turkish civil war broke out killing hundreds of thousands of Turks and Armenians, and the end of WWI changed the world forever. The Turks are being attacked on all sides, except from Iran. So why wouldn't Turkey, a thriving nation with millions of young people to feed and provide jobs for, turn to the one country that is accepting Turks as they are. Europe does not want Turkey because it fears so many Muslims. America has turned its back on Turkey because Bush and Cheney have managed to isolate every country, including Italy, that used to adore the US and Americans. I am not Turkish, yet as a New Yorker, I have many Turkish friends and I have found them to be loyal, kind, gentle, loving people with strong family ties. All Turkey wants is some respect. I only wish the US would lead the way in showing favoritism towards trade and immigration with Turkey, so that Turks will know that even if Europe does not want them, the US does.
11. #9 Solomon said what has been is what shall be.
(08.19.07)
Now and then a nation the Bible says is the enemy of God's people has someone so outstanding that God actually sides with that nation. Naaman the Syrian General won battles even against the Israelites because God loved Naaman. Naaman's troops called him "Father" because he was so loved. If you see such a person in an enemy nation's government, that is a greater threat in battle than many weapons. God does not always side with His traditional people. Nebuchadnezzer of Babylon had God's favor, as did Titus of Rome, in battles against the Jews and ancient Israel. When Ariel Sharon was a General, legions of angels fought with him and literally scared the Egyptian army to abandon their arms and equipment and heavy armor vehicles. They said Father Ibrahim is attacking us. That was God's favor of Ariel Sharon in my opinion because the ELS Bible codes say HASHEM LOVES A(riel) SHARON at www.biblecodedigest.com.
12. #10. It it weren't for the Revolution in Iran...
Persian CAT   (08.19.07)
the Turks were still banging on the closed doors of EU cup in hand begging to be let in. I am glad the Turks took a different path than Iran to turn inwards and "East" by electing the present government which reflect more of the Turkey's Muslem culture than the synthetic right wing and often fascistic/militarist "secular" elements that were leftover remnants of Kamal Atatürk's almost Stalinist legacy. I also agree with you that the US Congress is completely out of sync with the Turkish sensitivities although the Armenians' plight IS a historical reality. But now as always the Congress responds to lobbyists, this time the Armenian ones. The main problem with these kinds of empty gestures by the US politicians signals to Moslems of all persuasions and political leanings that as Moslems we are simply not good enough to be fully recognized and accepted as equals even if some of us are labeled as "moderate". Turkey's relationships with Israel is on thin ice because it is dictated and manged by the US. On the other hand Turkey has realized that Iran, in spite of historical and religious rivalries as the traditional centers of Shieh and Sunni power, can shape the future of the ME, and they will. The US has realized this because contrary to the conventional misconceptions, Saudi Arabia or Egypt have NEVER been the centers of political or economic power in the entire history of Eslam. The real role of the Saudi ruling family has to provide the janitorial services to Kaaba in Mecca. The Ottoman empire was centered in Turkey, and the Shieh seat of power in Iran. The West for centuries took advantage of the rivalries between these two powers. But both Iran and Turkey have realize that they ONLY can provide a political and economic horizon for the Moslems in the ME, while the rulers of the Arabian peninsula keep their people under the harsh backward Wahhabi Eslam and at the same time attend to their carnal urges in casinos and whore houses of Europe. To figure out the future ME watch the construction of oil and gas pipelines from Turkmenistan through Iran to Turkey and beyond. Turkey is going to be the oil and gas hub for EU. To make a long story short I'm arguing the Iranian Revolution in spite of all its ugly aftermaths set the stage for the developments related to the Moslem world during the 21st Century. The US and its Zionist jehadi allies are doing their darnest to influence and derail these developments to their benefit, but it's too late my friend.
13. #2 #4 #5 #6 #8 who is the "we" you refer to?
AY_Lamb ,   USA   (08.20.07)
Rikvah, who are the Jews in which you speak? "the last great war before the Messiah comes to judge the nations of the earth on how they treated the Jews who were Jews in their hearts." Are you studying the eschatology in the book of revelations perhaps? How can you be so certain that Magog is Russia? perhaps it is Scythia? maybe "Gog" means Goths and "Magog" is land of the Goths. Maybe the visions of Daniel and the prophecy of (Yehezkel) have already occurred and are now history. I don't even know why this article spurred Mikra commentary but, I know that history is replete with human tragedy originating from the purportedly infallible knowledge and zealotry of individuals claiming to know the exact achareet ha-yameem v/r K"H
14. Turkey and Israel
T.I ,   Israel   (08.20.07)
The relations between the two nation has been imporved since the AK party elected at the first time. more than 260 thousnads Israelies are in turkey right now. The EU must accept turkey.
15. Good analysis
ncox ,   Philadelphia, USA   (08.20.07)
Very good analysis of things to come.The author is on the money. Between the Israeli and the Palestinian quarters, the land records are still in Ottoman land titles. The other point that America can santcion anything to keep Turkey from trading with Iran is strange, can Turkey keep the USA from trading with Canada? It may not be the same thing, however, Turkey is situated where it is, the USA is so far away, Turkey needs natural gas and it has 2 suitors, so why not play them against each other, is this not in the USA's favor? And its own favor? As for Israel, they know they have no better friend than Turkey, Turkey did something totally against its own people when it threw its own embargo against the Suez Canal in the mid 50's, the Arabs retaliated with no oil for Turkey, many children died because there was no fuel, and I am one of those who survived. When the Earthquake happened in August of 1999, Turkish-Israeli actors raised over 1 million dollars in a telethon for Turkey and the Israelis were there first, that is not something that can be forgotten, like Sultan Murat sending out his ships to Spain, Portugal and Italy in 1492 and transferring over 50,000 Jews to the Ottoman Empire and settling them from Bosnia to Greece to Istanbul, Izmir and also what was known as Palestine. The author understands the complexities of history and has written a wonderful piece, very insightful and quite realistic in terms of present and past reality. NSC
16. #12
Student ,   Israel   (08.20.07)
Your revolution will end soon, I'm giving you my word, your fabricated regime would be overthrown by your own compatriots and by us of course. But, go to head to continue you are fueling my motivation, I'm hope one day, I will hunt you, like, I did before. Your book ratifies my rights in the land of Israel, take it or leave it. The Persians were more creative before the revolution, since then, the only thing you can produce is terror, so for a summary you should internalize a very simple premise: "god won't leave the people of the book", it's too late to deny it neither.
17. Turkish, they will come !
Martin Aubut ,   Sherbrooke   (08.20.07)
I have three questions : First of all, will U.S.A. grant military support to Turkey ? Second, when will European Union widely open its doors to Turkey emigration ? Finally, when this "Pal" will strike against its helper and the Western Civilisation ?
18. #13. I do not see the word "we" you refer to...
Rivkah   (08.20.07)
The descendants of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob by birth or by conversion are a concern to God and are who I would call Jews in their hearts. There are man Jews who are atheists God is not as concerned about as He is the bloodlin/spiritual family of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Gog is a name or title meaning Chief Prince of Magog which is more likely to be Russia because the principle cities listed in Ezekiel's writings are Mecshach and Tubal, ancient names for Moscow and Tubulsk. It is interesting that Michael Gorbachev's family name was once GOGbachev; but because of his age, he may not be Gog of Magog in Ezekiel. For the prophecies of Daniel to have already happened, every verse and every part of every verse would have to apply. The he-goat many believed was Greece with a notable horn many believed to be Alexander could not be the final complete fulfillment of the prophecy, although it fits as a partial fulfillment. The he-goat (Grecia which can be Greece or Gentile world by definition) comes from the ends of the earth to the WEST and touches not the ground. Alexander did not have airplanes nor was Greece the westernmost nation. It would be comforting if the he-goat were not the UN and the notable horn were not the USA. Sadly, the verses fit and not just partially. I am not infallible, but I do the best I can to understand what is written by better people than I am (the prophets). Sharing the discoveries is a joy, but sometimes the news is not good which is sad. But it is better to know the truth. If I am wrong, I will be judged more harshly than someone who does not try to teach. God holds teachers of his word to a higher standard than students. What are my credentials? Decades of study at home, mostly. What I say is food for thought, if nothing else.
19. Reply to #2 Rivkah
Danny ,   Istanbul, TR   (08.24.07)
Are you high or are you totally out of your mind?
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