Opinion
En route to third intifada
Dror Ze'evi
Published: 04.09.07, 07:04
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16 Talkbacks for this article
1. The worth’s will come sooner they will move to Jordan
e.m ,   s.f   (09.04.07)
2. it isn't to the victim
Alon   (09.04.07)
that you give the responsibility to prevent violence - the basis on which the article is built is faulty. Palestinians START the violence as an attempt to accomplish their goals. When the goals aren't accomplished by violence - peace has a chance.
3. Progress and Failure
Shai ,   Israel   (09.04.07)
It is progress that somebody noticed that Abbas and the PA have some responsibility here for failure. Usually it's all about Israel not "granting hope" causing the Palestinians to dispair. Thus, I feel the last paragraph in the article is nonsense. Nobody "grants hope". People build it for themselves, and Palestinians need to take responsibility for taking responsibility for their own hope-projects. To illustrate my point, Israel's national anthem (before even a State of Israel existed) was called "The Hope". Look up the PA's national anthem on the net and read about blood and war, etc. and you'll see what the PA's greatest national expression consists of. If their hope projects begin and end with destroying Israel, then they don't deserve our help in "granting hope". That's been what our conflict has been about for years. It's about time we faced the facts.
4. There is no political solution.
Terry ,   Eilat, Israel   (09.04.07)
5. dont get your hope up too much
jack bauer ,   AU   (09.04.07)
6. Violence
Richard ,   London UK   (09.04.07)
Alon - the Palestinians did not start the violence. Europeans (mostly) came to Palestine in the 1940s and took Palestine away from the indigineous population. Thus the violence begun. The ratio of people killed by Israelis to people killed by Palestinians is vastly to the disadvantage of the Palestinians. The reality is that most of the death and material destruction caused in Palestine is the result of the behaviour of Israelis.
7. To 2 - can't get simpler than that
Shai ,   Israel   (09.04.07)
Israel = aggressor Palestine = victim Israel=wrong Palestine=right Only when the above are accepted as true, "peace has a chance". What are you smoking, Alon? Have you ever heard of movements that achieve "goals" that do so without the bus bombs? Is the only conclusion that the only reason other movements succeeded in avoiding such terrorist tactics is that Israel is an especially heinous enemy? Right. Everything Israel does is a "tactic", an "excuse", a "pretext", a "diversion". When things don't go well in peace talks with the PA, it "suits us", "serves Israeli goals", etc. This is just so much moronic bullshit that I just can't stand to leave this without comment. I think that the Palestinians can be expected to live by the same practical guidelines that suited us. You may find exceptions that were roundly condemned by Jews, but the fact is that Jews, for all their 2000 years of persecution in their dispersion, did not seek to "accomplish by violence" anything. Peace had, has and will have a chance only if the Palestinians compromise on their stance that everything that's good for Jews and Israel must be bad for them. When you have an enemy whose "goals" do not permit peace at any price because they won't be satisfied with anything other than my country's destruction, not only are my enemies not "victims" they have no right to your sympathy, either. Their blood is not redder than ours.
8. Israeli?palestinian agreement
c. huna ,   jerusalem   (09.04.07)
If each one of us would expect an agreement instead of failure, we would find ourselves in a new reality..
9. Bring it on!
Daniel Jackson ,   Boulder, CO   (09.04.07)
The situation from 1999 (nor from 1949) has not changed except for players. There is not a reliable constituency among the Paleostinians to form a bond--even with Super Glue. There has been no change in their Paleolithic urge to destroy Israel. There has been no Revelation with which to make Peace. The outcome of the Big Daddy and All-Merde talks are a foregone conclusion--failure and violence. With the American Bozo Dayton hallucinating of 5 Paleostinian Battalions (can you believe the guy is NOT on LSD) and the outcome of Oslo producing 2 Paleostinian states in Israel, it is time to deal with the False Prophets in The Land in a proper fashion. The entire edifice of the Land For Peace concept is rotten to the foundation. Condemn the building, clear away the rumble, and start anew--after the smoke clears.
10. To 8
Shai ,   Israel   (09.04.07)
Really? How does that work? Why hasn't it worked in 1996 when Rabin was alive and Arafat was alive and everybody had hope, all the while Israeli passenger busses were being blown to bits? This isn't Kansas, anymore, Dorothy.
11. To 6
Shai ,   Israel   (09.04.07)
I think you misinterpreted Alon, but put thta aside. 1) Most Israelis are of Middle East origin. There are more Jews of Iraqi, Iranian, Yemenite, Libyan, Egyptian, Morroccan and Syrian origin than there are of Jews from German, English, French, or other European origin. And so what. Most of the Palestinians aren't from either the Jewish or Caananite origins that ruled here prior to Islam's spread in the 7th century, so other than playing into your guilt about being a "manifest destiny" colonizer as an Englishman, your whole assertion that Jews returning to the Holy Land is somehow unkosher, while it's OK for Arabians to convert entire populations by the sword and expel or kill indigenous populations who refuse to convert is saddening. 2) Wars are fought to win. That the English and the allies killed more than the Axis killed hardly should make us sorry the Axis one WWII. Rather, the salient point you should address is how the "death and material destruction" of each side occurs. Twenty Palestinians killed while attacking a nursery school is hardly the equivalent of twenty Israelis being exploded on a passenger bus, doing nothing other than going from one place to another. If you're going to be morally relativistic, Richard, at least have the human descency to understand the differences that arise through an understanding of context. It cannot all be reduced to Palestinians=good, Israelis= bad, even if this is necessary to convince you that the problem is solveable and that you are not under any threat. We in Israel won't allow ourselves to pay the price of the blindness of you and those like you.
12. En Route? Hint: We're Already There.
David ,   Israel   (09.04.07)
13. "Joint economic infrastructures" ?
Hamburger ,   Hamburg   (09.04.07)
l don't see how that can be good for lsrael. That's just more giving to the Palis. But it doesn't work that way with them, they just can't appreciate it. Hasn't lsrael given enough?..
14. #11
Thomas ,   Cleveland, USA   (09.04.07)
Bravo Shai! You hit the nail on the head! I would like to add a little something to what you said though....Palestinians claim dead terrorists as victims of Israeli aggression. Say for example if the IDF would send Infantry and Armor forces into Gaza to route out terror cells and Qassam launching areas and say 36 Hamas gunmen are killed and 1 innocent kid standing by is accidentally killed....that next day at the U.N. the Palestinians would make claims of a "Massacre of 37 innocent Palestinians" when in fact most were terrorists.
15. here are the facts!
oded   (09.04.07)
and they are indisputable! 1- there never was is or will be a pali state. 2- olmert is about to be an afterthought. 3- nonoe in the arab world wishes to really ,really have peace with the zionist entity. 4- as long as iran is meddling in the middle east, war in eminent. 5- bush is up to his neck with iraq- not good for israel/iran situation. 6- only solution to m.e problems is an organosed ,compenstaed trasfer of the arabs, to jordan, and resettle them there.
16. #6, Richard, that just isnt true, and you should know in Eng
David ,   Boston, USA   (09.04.07)
Arabs had been committing pogroms against Jews all over Palestine, which incidentally included Jordan, and Syria and Lebanon depending on what decade of history you are talking about. The 1929 massacre of Jews in Hebron is one of the best known, but hardly the only one. As for indiginous, Jews are the native population. until the 60s, even the Arabs called the Jews the Palestinians, because the Jews were the natives. Britian ethnically cleansed Jews from Jordan Palestine and the law remains that Jews are not allowed. Talk about violence. Remove all the Jews and their wont be any. Thats about as racist as possible. Jews brought prosperity for the Arabs who moved where the Jews were. I dont know where you get your information from. Arabs stayed in Israel when it was re-created. more than 850,000 NATIVE Jews were expelled from Jordan Palestine were slaughtered or expelled from otherparts of the Arabs world. The best solution for peace is for the Arab world to acknowledge the injustices they have committed to both Jews and Arabs alike and to start integrating the Arabs in Gaza and in Judea and Samaria into Egypt and Judea and Samaria which is the only solution that will work. End this farce in creating another Arab Palestinian state which never exisited and doesnt belong anywhere in the world.
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