First, I quoted hadiths from Bukhari. Now, Bukhari is considered unquestionably authentic--the most authentic, btw. But still, utter silence from our Abu Zeal. Then, Zeal brings up Pipes, though I did not link to anything of Pipes. I mean, how dishonest can one get? But the key point is that our Zeal is engaging in "Taqiyya," just as FITZGERALD notes in the linked article. And THAT is shown by his ignoring the hadiths. This shows that Zeal is indeed practicing lying just as I claimed--and as others here have claimed. In doing so, he shows his adherence to the hadiths that I began my TBs with.

Man, you know nothing about hadiths from Islam. NOTHING! You narrow-mindedly go to Pipes (who is the publisher of this "Jihad Watch") to learn about the hadith of the prophet Muhammed. It is a tactic amongst people like you to select verses of the Quran/Hadith and misinterpret them. This is absolute foolishness. The Quran and Hadith are ways to guide those who seek guidance, not for people who want to crudely defame it. Learn that the prophet is a mercy to all mankind, even to his enemies, even Abu Sufyan, the prophet's most powerful enemy who waged wars and persecuted the early Muslims; his descendents still hold the keys to the sacred mosque in Mecca. So take Islam as a mercy, and it will be a mercy. Take it as your adversary and woe on you on the day of judgement.

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3442953,00.html Work of Mossad probably. They also trained Iranian Shah's secret police and possibly even the Americans in Abu Ghraib.

Hey, Zeal, it's much easier to spread TRUTH than for you to spread irrelevant lies.

.. 'will now get employment with the BBC' - "classic!!' ha ha ha! .. excellent ..

Oh, I know a lot about Islam, thank you, and I think it's a curse, not as you call it, "a mercy," though I grant that the word "mercy" has been heard millions of times from people about to be killed or enslaved by it. Pipes does not "publish" Jihad Watch. He is the editor of Campus Watch. The heavy hitter (and director) at Jihad Watch (and at Dhimmi Watch) is Robert Spencer. Jihad Watch is a unit of David Horowitz's Freedom Center. Are you so used to lying that you can't tell the truth when it is easy and profitable to do so? It is a tactic of people like you who are actively waging jihad to lie in various ways. Happily, many of us are by now wise to your ways and to the ways of TRUE Islam, which are not pretty. You claim that I have "misinterpreted" the hadiths. How precisely have I done so? You say "The Quran and Hadith are ways to guide those who seek guidance, not for people who want to crudely defame it." The Koran, Hadith, and Sira are the necessary source texts for all Muslims, not merely "those who seek guidance." I do not "defame" anything; I just offer the unpleasant truth. Part of that truth is that these texts are intended as a blueprint to bring all people, via jihad, into the House of Submission (Islam) from the House of War. The enemies of Mo didn't live too long--stop lying. Infidels are to be killed, converted, or put into dhimmi status, where they pay the jizya and feel themselves subdued. To avoid death, "even Abu Sufyan" converted to Islam. No wonder that there is virtually no Christianity in Jesus's birthplace. Hindus could not in theory be dhimmis; they were just converted or killed. The Koran: [9.29] Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Apostle have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection. About us "people of the book," the Koran says 5.51: O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people. 5.58: And when you call to prayer they make it a mockery and a joke; this is because they are a people who do not understand. 5.59: Say: O followers of the Book! do you find fault with us (for aught) except that we believe in Allah and in what has been revealed to us and what was revealed before, and that most of you are transgressors? 5.60: Say: Shall I inform you of (him who is) worse than this in retribution from Allah? (Worse is he) whom Allah has cursed and brought His wrath upon, and of whom He made apes and swine, and he who served the Shaitan; these are worse in place and more erring from the straight path. Ah, yes, quite the "mercy": to be called descendants of apes and pigs. But is this "apes and pigs" business just a dead letter of the Koran? Not quite: http://memri.org/bin/articles.cgi?Area=sr&ID=SR01102 ------ Go peddle your deceptions elsewhere, Zeal. We're not buying them.

1. What? 2. What?! 3. WHAT THE HELL?!!! The truth? Ha ha ha! That blasphemous packet of baseless lies is the truth? The Salman Rushdie knows just as much about Islam as I know about Judaism- not enough to make such foolish claims as those made by that fool. Now, if you want to know a REAL person who told the truth, check out Mordechai Vanunu- this guy actually worked inside to get the information he spoke of. Then he was seduced (and deceived- "By way of deceit", remember?) into going to Italy where he was drugged by none other than the Mossad! He would spend 18 years behind bars for exactly what Olmert did last year. Now this ties in with one of the Prophet (peace and blessings upon him): " '...what is the best type of Jihad [struggle].' He (Muhammed)answered: 'Speaking truth before a tyrannical ruler.' " FREE PALESTINE!

So far EVERY single stat or "fact" you have quoted is demonstrably false. No "baby" was killed that day. Never mind you keep repeating your lies to yourself.

The Mossad killed Kennedy????? Thats a new one. Love the "you guys keep making up conspiracies", you must have balls of brass to make that claim.

It is the only explaination. How else can you know about all these top secret operations?

Giggle. I give you the Koran and hadiths from the most authentic collection of hadiths (Bukhari), and you give me irrelevant rot from Riyadh us-Saleheen ( '...what is the best type of Jihad [struggle].' He (Muhammed)answered: 'Speaking truth before a tyrannical ruler.' "), whose collection of hadiths is not even cannonical? What next, an abrogated verse from the Koran? I notice that you have nothing to say about the texts I have cited here, though, which are as authentic as one can get. Surely you are not calling the Koran or Bukhari "blasphemous"?! I don't know whether you are just lying or whether you are incredibly ignorant of your own religion. I suspect the former, however. Don't try to fool me with your absurd interpretations of the meaning of "jihad." It is overwhelmingly understood as war for Allah. Giggle.

1. I said “the next day” in that TB if you recall. According to the site in post 20, Sara Abdul-Azim Abdul-Haq Hasan, 18 months, of Sarah, near Salfit, was killed by Israeli settler gunfire to her head while riding with her father in a car. 2. Palestinian gunmen hired a cameraman to film the killing of 12-year-old Muhammad al-Durrah and injuring of his father, whose approval of this operation was in advance- all just to bring an excuse to get angry and kill Israelis. Interesting conspiracy theory. Between you and me, the Kennedy theory sounds more credible, no matter how crazy it is. 3. I wish what you said was true. I wish I knew the Mossad’s plans. The two thousand people who work for the Mossad, the most ruthless spying agency on the planet, pose perhaps a HUGE danger; one piece of false intelligence (like the one that started the Iraq war), or, perhaps my suspicion of a false flag Pearl Harbor-style attack on the US navy currently doing “shows of force” close to Iran’s border, and the havoc that followed would be unprecedented since the second world war. It seems only Israel can really manipulate the US- that could possibly lead to its downfall. FREE PALESTINE!

Sorry I got confused with your crazy english: "****Remember that Muhammed was not the only kid who died that day*****- the NEXT DAY an eighteen month old was killed by a settler", so Muhammed WAS the ONLY kid who died that day... No one says the gunman hired the cameraman. They are saying the tape was shot and doctored and reported to blame the Israelis. Remember YOU are the crazy conspiracy theorist. PS it is 1,600 people not 2,000 who work for the Mossad but we all are aware of your lack of facility with numbers....

on 2000/10/1, day after Dura's death: Muhammad Nabil Da'ud Hamed al-'Abasi 16 year Husam Na'im Hassan Bakhit 17 year Jihad Mahmoud al-'Aalul 23 year Salah al-Faqiya 25 year Sami Fathi Muhammad a-Taramsi 17 year 'Imad 'Abd a-Rahman el-'Anati 30 year Mustafa Helmi Muhammad Ramadan 21 year Samer Samir Sudqi Tabanjeh 12 year No "babies"...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTG4pWdRtYY

Sk, I will not tell you this again. If you want to learn about Islam, do so open-mindedly. Read an entire chapter instead of selected verses. Now you, Danny: look at victim #929 of http://www.tendernesstour.com/id286.html or "remember these children" in TB # 20 and learn who's making up statistics. And the video you provided me is biased and fabricated (I think I like this game). Well, I have to go. FREE PALESTINE.

I have never bothered with Family Guy, but I think I have erred.

"Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad should "be made to disappear from the arena," Meir Amit, a former director of Israel's Mossad intelligence agency, advocated in an exclusive interview with WND. "There has been since almost the earliest days of the Israeli state and the earliest days of the CIA a secret bond, basically by which Israeli intelligence did jobs for the CIA and for the rest of American intelligence. You can't understand what's been going on with American covert operations and the Israeli covert operations until you understand this secret arrangement." - Andrew Cockburn

on Uruk.net. This bit of information was very interesting to me: On Thursday, 20 September, the Israeli occupation army murdered three additional Palestinian minors in the Gaza Strip. One of the boys was crushed to death by an American-supplied bulldozer. Graphic pictures of the badly-mutilated boy were shown all over the world, while Israeli boys and girls on talkback forums were busy congratulating themselves "on teaching Palestinians a lesson.!" This has got to stop with the emancipation of the Palestinian people.

Why exactly should I learn about Islam "with an open mind" when you have never (quite obviously) learned about Islam with an open mind? It's not like you started off Jewish and became a Muslim based on extensive reading and inquiry. C'mon! In fact, though, my mind has been pretty open: I have a much, much dimmer view of Islam now than I had two years ago. Nor could I "learn about Islam" from reading "a single chapter." I have, though, read much of the Koran--far more than a verse here and there. Indeed, early verses of the Koran (in their order of "dictation," not their present order) may be "abrogated" by later verses, as you know full well. As for the Hadith, I agree fully that it must be read as a whole. Still, collections are indeed ranked in terms of authenticity, and you have given me a hadith that is not from a collection that is regarded as reliable. And, you gave me ONE hadith. Hm. I suppose that when a hadith is in your favor, you offer it signly; when it is not, you deny that it can be taken singly and at face value. If I had more time, I'd track down statistical analyses of the concept of jihad in the Hadith. Let's be clear, though: "jihad" is overwhelmingly used, in the Koran, the Hadith, and the Sira, in precisely the way I have used it. "Jihad" means killing or subjugating those who reject Allah, Mo, and "the Last Day."

where the Pals are coating nails and shot with AIDS-infected materials and then stuffing it all into Kassams. The difference is that THAT article is truthful.

The concept of Jihad is the only subject you "Islamophobes" ever talk about. It is easily the most misunderstood word in the Islamic religion. Your definition of it reflects on how narrow minded you are. Rather, the basic concept of Jihad is the obligation of all Muslims to defend their Muslim brothers and sisters/ Muslim possessions and holy places when under attack or to spread the message of Islam. Those who are obligated with this task must have no fear; now on Martyrdom, the Quran says: In the name Allah, most gracious most merciful: "Think not of those who are killed in the Way of Allah as dead. Nay, they are alive, with their Lord, and they have provision. They rejoice in what Allah has bestowed upon them of His Bounty, rejoicing for the sake of those who have not yet joined them, but are left behind (not yet martyred) that on them no fear shall come, nor shall they grieve. And that whole thing about abrogation by later verses- I know that from somewhere- from a past argument. You most definitely are getting information from sites that deceive you about Islam. Another misinterpreted verse I'm sure; Islamic laws never change; the earlier verses are referring to the Torah and the Bible. The Torah was changed in certain ways, and the Bible was "amended" as one of my friends termed it. The Quran, however, has the same message as these books, of the one True God; it is the better substitute for these two books and has never been changed by human hands. Now what you said on the authenticity of Hadiths, the prophet (peace and blessings upon him) told Muslims not to write down these quotes so as not to mix them with the Quran. After his death, these quotes by the holy prophet were collected by the early Muslims; the ones that they were most sure of authenticity are ranked, as you said, because some were false. But really Sk, do not regard me as a scholar, because I too have to learn about my religion and seek guidance by reading the Quran and Hadith. All I ask of you, Sk, is to have tolerance of my religion because it is, believe it or not, quite similar to yours. May Allah guide us all.

You claim to have read the parts of the Quran, but I have doubts that you have read it well. The Quran has a beautiful message that websites like Jihad watch and people like Daniel Pipes will never tell you about. I wish for you to understand this; it is my #1 duty as a Muslim as detailed in verse 16:125- In the name of Allah, most gracious most merciful: "Invite (all) to the Way of thy Lord with wisdom and beautiful preaching; and argue with them in ways that are best and most gracious: for thy Lord knoweth best, who have strayed from His Path, and who receive guidance."

My dear Zeal, let's drop this "Islamophobe" nonsense. There is nothing phobic about wanting to avoid having airplanes crashing into one's buildings, or in wanting not to be raped, decapitated, stoned to death, pillaged, etc. The concept of jihad is so central to Islam, and Islam's attacks are obviously so important to those likely to be attacked, it is no wonder that it is a high-profile concept. Regarding the doctrine of abrogation, you are completely confused, I'm sorry to say. It has nothing to do with the Torah or the Christain Bible. It is mainstream understanding: Mo's later suras supercede his earlier ones. Mo started off preaching tolerance because he could not gain an early following otherwise; but as his military power increased, so did his belligerance. It is not that abrogated suras were "changed." Rather, directions (given via Gabriel) for the early stages of the war against Infidels were no longer appropriate when success was being gained; thus new principles were needed. Please see the following link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naskh_(tafsir) The idea of "defense" in Islam is curious. If I started out insisting that you will accept my religion and threatening that you had better do it, and if you then got together with your buddies so that I could not so easily threaten you, or if you then attacked me because I had already threatened you, my actions should be called offensive, not defensive. This is the "defense" in Islam. Anyone who does not convert is seen as being an aggressor against Allah and Mo. Anyway, the whole "defense" business in the Koran was ABROGATED by the later suras. Thanks but no thanks regarding Allah guiding us all. But this the problem: I do not want Allah to guide me because I do not consider Allah to be God. I would be happy to have tolerance for your religion, but your religion insists on being intolerant of all others including mine. That, Zeal, is the central problem.

I fully agree that Mo started off very reasonably, emphasizing argumentation and tolerance. Unfortuantely, as he became more successful, tolerance was tossed. So, for example, the Meccan sura 16:125 was superceded by the later Medina sura 9:29 (again, the order in the Koran does not refer to which came first): 9:29 Fight against such of those who have been given the Scripture as believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, and forbid not that which Allah hath forbidden by His messenger, and follow not the Religion of Truth, until they pay the tribute readily, being brought low. IN OTHER WORDS, Zeal, the beauty you find in the Koran is, quite consistently, irrelevant. But how exactly have YOU, Zeal, conducted yourself on Ynet? You have uttered an unending stream of libels against Jews and Israel, and any careful dissection of what you have posted shows that you simply do not care what the facts are, and you don't much care for Jooos. In other words, yet another Muslim (you) who seem, yet again, to confirm everything about Islam that many already believe.

I have found you increasingly stubborn judging by these TBs that you have produced; unfortunately too many people are like you. Yes, Muslims are in a desperate need for change. What they lack today is a leader; what they lack is unity; it is very important for the Muslim people to take charge of their own destinies, without the influence of other countries. Islam has given its followers strength, mercy, deliverance, unity, and ultimately victory. Tell me, Sk: what has Zionism given you? To answer this, consider its very purpose, which was to end anti-Semitism and bring about security; and yet, to this day, they are still begging others not to be anti-Semitic. So, in other words, Zionism is a failure. An absolute failure. For your comment that I was making anti-Jewish comments, I must remind you that Zionism and Judaism are two COMPLETELY different things. There is, let me remind you, there is Christian Zionism (500 followers marched today in Tel Aviv), who support the most extreme elements of Israel, and whose founder advocates an apocalyptic war with Iran (just as he did to Iraq). These comments will yet again be blocked in that closed mind of yours. But I am perfectly content with this. I need not keep arguing with you as your mind stays closed; I can only ask Allah to guide you a third time, just as I ask him to guide me. After all, who else can I ask for forgiveness, mercy, guidance, knowledge, and strength? There is no god but Allah and Muhammad is the messenger of God.

Zeal, you say I have a closed mind. And yet, your TBs do not indicate any openness on your part. I mean, when you fire off pre-made, pre-packaged anti-Israel accusations and alleged crimes and do not pay attention to refutations, you indicate ... well, a closed mind. I mean, without all the anti-Israel (and anti-Jewish) lies, you might actually get down to some really important core issues. For example, why should "Palestinians" be able to inherit "refugee" status when no other people have ever done so? You say: "Yes, Muslims are in a desperate need for change. What they lack today is a leader; what they lack is unity; it is very important for the Muslim people to take charge of their own destinies,.." So Muslims need a new caliphate? Yes, Muslims need a change, but they do NOT need more unity; they need more heated disagreements and challenges to orthodoxy. The variations in Islam (when Muslims talk to Muslims) are tiny in comparison to any other religion that I know of. Islam is so hermetically sealed that a Jew like me can rapidly grasp the Islamic canon and know it much better, frankly, than you. That can only happen when a religion has become sterile. "Islam has given its followers strength, mercy, deliverance, unity, and ultimately victory." Islam has chained and diminished its followers, who are now, as a whole, a backward people. They are not strong at all; they are weak. There are very good Muslim individuals, but curiously, they tend to know little about Islam. Anyway, you said first that Islam needs unity, but now you say that Islam has provided unity. Which is it? And as for "ultimate victory," this shows yet again why my views of Islam are well taken. You are evidently unable to think of anything besides military outcomes. What has Zionism given me? Well, what has non-Zionism or anti-Zionism given me? Dhimmitude and death under Muslim overlords (for the Sephardim) and pogroms and a Holocaust (for the Ashkenazim). Individual Jews are disproportionately responsible for advances in the sciences and the humanities, and in business, but what has that brought us? Nobel prize after Nobel prize, but only a tiny number of Jews remaining. That Israel's Bolshevik elite (and its clownsuited elite as well) are opportunists and dhimmis in their hearts does not mean that Jews would be better off with YOU in the majority. Oh, I think not. And Zionism cannot be a failure when there is a state of Israel, can it? I mean, does the American Revolution become a failure just because we have some dopes in high office? Zionism and Judaism are obviously not "COMPLETELY different," but they are just as obviously not the same either. I think one can make an excellent case, though, that Zionism is AND SHOULD BE one implication of Judaism. After all, many of the mitzvot cannot be practiced except in the land of Israel. I call Hashem to open your eyes to your own folly.