are selling us down the river. We do NOT have to be dictated to any longer. We are not Bush's puppets. And we do NOT have to play ball. The Americans are so hypocritical, it is unbelievable. They have been selling us/the Arabs/the Muslims...this ROAD MAP shit for too long. We have become a brainwashed, indifferent, pathetic society that needs to stand up on its own 2 feet once again. Only then, will we be feared again....STOP all this sucking up and appeasement...it will get us nowhere fast.

To Terry: Me thinks you are missing the salient points of Olmert's (Kadima's) thinking about how to resolve the 100yr old problem. If a 2 state solution is inevitable (which is the push right now by the Big 4 and many in Israel itself) supplying the Palis security is appropriate. They will need it to prevail over Hamas, which threatens constantly. If no Palis state ( Israel's mighty army can bomb those vehicles with helicopters). Israel's 700,000 army, armed with tanks..can go through the entire W Bk and Strip in 48hrs if it really wanted. Let's not get carried away. Once a state is established, arms can come into it from Jordan, etc., as with Gaza (from Egypt). Having planes, tanks and artillery is another matter however. Give peace a chance my Israeli friend. What is the alternative..more war? Olmert is taking a middle position on must everything, much of which is reversible. Being too dogmatic is not wise in this conflict. Israel's divisions are hurting it more than a few APCs. Do you really care about a few Arab neighbohoods anyway, other than biblical verses which are irrelevant? This is about give and take..that is where Israel's prudence comes in.

responsibility for themselves once and for all. We tried, once, twice....enough. They are not interested. They do not understand and do not want to understand. We need to cut all ties with them. That's it !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! We owe them ZILCH. We do not have to take responsibility for them, we do not have to arm them, supply them with fuel, phone lines, water...whatever....let them get their act together themselves and learn what responsibility is. Problem is, they have no f.......g idea. They are such a dysfunctional society .....let the Americans do the dirty work...not us. ENOUGH

It will be a good IAF training exercise to locate and target all 50 of these APC's for destruction.

you will not find this to your advantage.

put all my posts under the article of MARRY ...17... hey ! they were pretty good poems for you. please. ı didnt copy them. it will take your a few minutes. SURE I LOVE YOU. Atilla Karagözoğlu

If you want the Palestinians to take responsibility for themselves then israel has to release them from the giant prison the Palestinians are incarcerated in. Give them the ability to grow their economy by taking down the military blockade (and the horrific wall) and enable the decent Palestinians to create a future for themselves. This way the militants lose their grip. Stop killing members of their elected Government and start treated them with dignity as people, a people who have suffered a terrible 60 years. It seems that Kadima and the US and the EU and Russia are finally realising that dignity has to be restored to the Palestinians for their sake and for Israel's sake. The other option is to just go on fighting for ever, I suppose. Palestinians can be responsible, if Israel stops destroyong their infrastructure, their morale and their hope. To say that Palestinians 'have no f.......g idea' is a gross generalisation, at best.

There is a beautiful side of evil that is mesmerizing and hypnotic. That might be what is happening to influence leaders of Israel to do things against the best interests of Israel. The Bible says even the devil can appear as an angel of light. But he is still the devil, a dangerous malevolent creature who wants to destroy Jews who are Jews in their hearts and to wipe out the seed of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.

G-d give Israel with the strength and ability to come to the right decisions. I'm not talking about the leadership, but society as a whole. Because it is there where ultimate decision lies as to what to do next. Especially after these developments.

You say "If you want the Palestinians to take responsibility for themselves then israel has to release them from the giant prison the Palestinians are incarcerated in." Hello! Israel did that and gave them Gaza - all to them themselves and what did they do? Instead of turning Gaza into a paradise for its residents, they opted to use it to launch rocket attacks on Israel and kidnap Gilad Shalit. Or what about South Lebanon, where Israel left and then also faced attacks and kidnappings. You say, "Give them the ability to grow their economy by taking down the military blockade (and the horrific wall) and enable the decent Palestinians to create a future for themselves. This way the militants lose their grip. " Again, hello! - this fence (if you came here you would see that most of it is a fence), stopped numerous attacks that were carried out when the Pals had the freedom to move around and make a living. It was their attacks encouraged by their leadership that caused the fence/wall to go up in the first place (not that I am thrilled with the ugly structure). Now as you continue to criticize from UK, remember one thing - The "poor Palestinians" are blaming the wrong people for their pliight. If only their leaders and fellow Arab countries gave up the fight against Israel and instead funneled money to improve their lives, there would be no conflict. The problem is that they do not want to give up of exterterminating Israel regardless of a few of them claim in the Western Media. If you don't believe me, check their consitution and see who they voted into power, when allowed the opportunity. Get with the program and recognize the real problem - Arab leadership that continues to exploit them.

Unless people protest in the streets, write letters, this fool will continue to rule.

Because there was no terrorism before the "blockade" (Never mind the amount of international aid to the Palestinians has gone UP in the last two years). Because there was no terrorism before the wall. Because there was no terrorism before the "occupation". Because there was no terrorism before 1948. PS What members of the "elected goverment" have been killed? PPS do you ever get any facts right?

Gaza is a giant prison. No one can leave or enter without the permission of the IDF. Trade and free movement is strangled thus breeding militancy and unrest. The fence / wall which, when completed, is nearly 500 miles long and is primarily designed to appropriate Palestinian territory. If it were solely for protection why not build it inside Israeli territory? It's a de-facto border that is illegal and condemned by the UN, Amnesty International and every government in the world. The Palestinians do no want to 'exterminate' (your word) Israelis and there is no evidence to suggest so. In the past seven years five times more Palestinians have been 'exterminated' than israelis. And the Palestinians have currently imprisoned one israeli whilst israel has currently over ten thousand Palestinians incarcerated of whom nearly 400 are children. So the evidence would suggest that israel is attempting to 'exterminate' the Palestinians.

There is only one course of strategy for peace and it means a two State solution. Anyone who opposes this is doomed to be disappointed. It is not the leadership that stands in the way of progress. It is the individual. It is up to each of us to pray and focus on our sense of citizenship. Religion must not come between a person and his/her GOD. Only way to defend ourselves in this is to understand religion is a secular matter. Israel is unique in the world's perceptions of this principle because Israel was the world's first monotheistic nation. Today we write history in a modern world and this principle of a secular role for religion in the constitution of the two states should not obstruct the negotiations that have to be concluded over territory. Olmert is one man charged with responsibility to a nation. In giving armoured vehicles to Palestinians he is making the magnanimous gesture. In giving rifles he is making a mistake. The State of Israel should not engage in trade in lethal weapons. Palestinians should seek these from the League of Arab States and within the terms of an international agreement that is articulated in the context of a pan arab commitment to police and disarm military factions outside the police and regular national armed forces. This is a sinful world and it is full of murderers. States need lethal weapons if they are to protect their people from such murderers. But the cry of the so called 'freedom fighter' cannot be tolerated if it cries out for armed struggle against the nation. If Hamas were to declare a desire for a commitment amongst Palestinian society to abandon armed struggle the world applaud them. But Israelis should denounce their leaders if their leaders intend to trade in lethal weapons. Amen

yeah there was terrorism before 1948 - the Stern Gang

Rabin gave Arafat thousands of assult rifles and tons of amunition for his security forces who were going to keep the peace and only use those guns on anybody they found trying to commit an act of terrorism against Israel. We later had those guns and amo used against Israelis and instead of terrorists getting shot by Israeli guns Israelis got shot by them. Olmert has given Abbas more guns and more amunition to shoot at us with and now he has given them APCS to shoot at our people while they are safley protected from us. Its just a matter of time before these peace gestures involve giving tanks so we can tell the palestians see we trust you we want you to be able to look after yourselves thats an example of just how serious we are about peace. What the defense establishment says doesnt matter to him .. Olmert makes Peretz look like a brilliant general and expert on millitary tactics.

So you've got Arabs begging to leave Gaza as Israel had treated them better (or did you conveniently miss those stories) as Hamas has turned it into a breeding ground for terror against "informants" and anyone else they didn't like - I see - this is Israel's fault too. If Gaza is such a prison - how do they they continue to stockpile weapons and fire more rockets at Israel. Maybe, just maybe instead of getting weapons smuggled in to terrorize innocent civilians (note - within the pre-'67 boundaries), they can smuggle in items to improve their lives. And you think they don't trying to exterminate Israelis - you say there is no evidence to suggest so - I guess you don't hear in England about the daily rockets falling down on Sderot and nearby towns - or is this just some Palestinan game. Not even talking about how their constitution openly talks about the armed struggle against Israel and how their elected leaders openly state that they want Israel destroyed. Again - did you miss this too? Now about the prisoners - The one Israeli, who you say was "imprisoned" - was not imprisoned - he was kidnapped - nice play on words. The 10,000 or so (according to you) Pals were taken because of terrorism or suspected terrorist ties (i.e., attempted terrorism/ accomplices, etc.) And of course you do not count the thousands of Israeli men, women and children who did not get the chance to sit in a prison (like David Hatuel's family) as they were murdered in cold blood by these prisoners who you pity (who should have been killed and thus released from prison in the proper way. Honestly, learn the facts before you make comments that prove ignorance about the conflict.

The Stern Gang did not commit one act of terror inside England who happened to be occupying their country. According to your definition, George Washington was a terrorist too!

Israelis allowed a dysfunctional political system to develop starting with the founding of the state. We see the end result of this process today & we will suffer the consequences. Our unaccountable politicians are re-cycled no matter their past failures. Because of our odd form of democracy wherein we vote a party list rather than individual candidates & the resulting necessity to form coalition gov't's, no matter who we vote for, the same incompetants invariably end up in gov't. The fact that ministerial positions are filled from the Knesset as political favours rather than for competance as well as the average tenure of a gov't minister is often a year or two at best assures that nothing is accomplished. If this isn't evidence of stupidity, nothing else is. As far as solutions go, there is no quick fix. Our system has become entrenched with many vested interests opposing change. My opinion is that only a new political party with a specific program for gov't. reform which is neither right wing nor left wing is necessary. If such a party can elect even a few members to the Knesset & work tirelessly to publicize reforms, to keep reforms in the public view, to expose abuses & sleezy deals, then perhaps there can be some slow progress to attract a higher quality of individual to politics. Hopefully, these MK's will not be co-opted into the same corrupt system. Like I said, there are no quick fixes for the accumulated damage of 60 years.

The PA ambushes and kills a young Jew and Olmert rewards them with armored vehicles and bullets--this is Bizzaro-Israel, right??

The IDF need to instigate a coup d'etat against the most inept and corrupt government in ISRAEL's history.Olmert and his corrupt cronies need to be arrested and tried for treason.Israel needs immediate strong leadership and the IDF is best placed to offer this.By the time Olmert is ousted in an election,the damage to security will be too detrimental.

OLMERT IS A CORRUPT TRAITOR