Jewish Scene
Rabbi: Cleanse country of Arabs
Kobi Nahshoni
Published: 27.11.07, 10:36
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91. Futura , Sweden
charles ,   petach tikva   (11.27.07)
We have still that "thing" that makes us cleavier , more succesfull . But we can also be full of compassion , understanding of others . This was always a Jewish way , look at the many great idealists who were Jewish . This what i'm writing here is not a "wonderfull" evolving . It's my yearlong idea .
92. # 86
(11.27.07)
Charles - you could also say "West Bank Arabs" or "Arab communities in Judea and Samaria", why should anyone use a term that revises history?
93. To Charles in Petah Tikvah, nr86
Alexander ,   Herzliya, Israel   (11.27.07)
What I would tell the Arabs? We Jews/Israelis/Hebrews/Israelites bought the land of Israel in ancient times and REBOUGHT it from Turkish and Arab occupiers, Turkish masters(Ottomans) and local Arab farmers, that HAPPENED to move into Israel in nubers of hundreds of thousands at the end of the 1800s and beginning of 1900s and even in1930s to do 2 things: 1.) Prevent Israel from being reborn by flooding the world's only Jewish homeland with millions of newly immigrated Arabs - foreigners and 2.) Arabs looking for jobs in Israel as Jews built cities, agriculture, industry, roads and replaced swamps and deserts(caused by Arabs and other foreign occupiers) with planted forests. The Arab interest for Israel was awoken from economic benefit among poor Arab farmers and workers looking for jobs among Jews. The problem is that Arabs moved in without asking and did so BEFORE Israel REGAINED its political sovereignity and independence. The Arab presence in Israel is ILLEGAL. A state is like a real estate - you need to buy in order to own it. We Jews did that. Arabs did not. We Jews had an ancient kingdom of Israel in the land of Israel thousands of years ago and we have reestablished our independent Jewish state in the land of Israel. Arabs did neither and had neither. There is only one Jewish state, with fragile and indefensible borders and Israeli Arabs and Arabs of Gaza/Judea/Samaria aren't making these easier by living there and acting like hostile Islamofascists. 3 reasons why Arabs can't live in Israel: 1)They never had a state here and they never bought the land. 2)Historically, culturally and religiously, Israel means nothing and never meant anything to the Arabs. Koran mentions Jerusalem zero times. The Bible mentions Jerusalem 700 times. King David built the capital of Jerusalem about 1000 B.C.E. Prophet Muhammed never placed his foot in Jerusalem. The mosque of Jerusalem with the golden dome, was unimportant to Arabs/Muslims until 1967, when Israel won the Six Day War. 3)Arabs have shown repeatedly that they are not capable of settling issues in a civilized and cultured manner nor do they show any loyalty to or understanding for OUR national aspirations in OUR land with 4000 YEARS OF JEWISH HISTORY. Stop using the name "Palestinians". If you want to use a term that designates their true nature, use ARAB OCCUPIERS - meaning the "Pals". What the world thinks? I don't care, becase the world wants us dead and they have no legal or moral authority in Israel. We are sovereign and independent state and we are the masters of the land - that is why we are independent and sovereign state.
94. A Swede commenting Israeli affairs?
Alexander ,   Herzliya, Israel   (11.27.07)
I thought the Swedes are depressed and commiting suicide far up in the north, in the cold and in the darkness. Do you have energy to interfer with Israeli affairs? You know that you Swedes cooperated with the Nazis in WW2 and that you Swedes told the Nazis to print the letter "J" in Jewish passports. Do yourself a favor: keep your mouth shut and stay out of our way. You had better deal with the Arab demographic threat against Sweden before Sweden becomes an Arab state.
95. Fanatical Rabbi
Fussion ,   Israel   (11.27.07)
Put the Rabbi in jail for incitement,promoting racism....he is no Jew.He might wear a black coat but his heart is made from stone.
96. #36 I respectfully disagree
Chaya ,   Bat Yam, Israel   (11.27.07)
Jews have been living in this land for more than 3,000 years. It is the Arabs who are the newcomers. The majority of Arabs are those whose ancestors came after Jewish immigration increased in the late 19th century. But I have no problem with Arabs living here as long as they do not threaten my existence!!
97. Let's put you in jail for stopping right of speech..
Alexander ,   Herzliya, Israel   (11.27.07)
... for a Jew - a rabbi in Israel. If you like the Arabs so much, move either to Jordan or Syria. Israel is ours - get this straight.
98. To nr 96 - I have very big problems having Arabs in Israel.
Alexander ,   Herzliya, Israel   (11.27.07)
..as the land is ours since 3000 years, and since the Arab genius commented on your article I should add that we Jews have lived for 4000 years in Israel but established Israel 1312. B.C.E meaning 3000 years ago, we have lived in the Babylonian exile since 6th century B.C.E., so we Jews have lived in the Middle East outside Israel for at least 2600 years, and most of the Jewish history, we Jews lived in middle East and North Africa and not Europe. Second, living in Europe doesn't change our ethncity or the fact they we are ethnic Jews originating from Israel- something you might tell him. Tell this Arab genius that Arabs have spread all over the Middle East - does it mean that Arabs lose their rights to the Arabian Peninsula? Also ask him why he(the Arab) has national claims, when they had no claims on the land until 1967? Also ask him why Arab nationalism is "sooo important" to Arabs when clans and dynasties and not nation states, characterize Arab culture and history. Also ask him when and where did "Palestine" exist, who were the kings and dynasties, who and what are "Palestinians", what language do they speak, what gods did the worship, what cities did the build and what neighbours did they have. You should ask these questions to the Arab. You should also ask the genius WHEN have Arabs ever had a state/kingdom/republic in Israel and when Arabs bought the land and what exactly have the Arabs done for the land? You should also ask him whether he believes that Arabs have monopoly on nationalism. His answer is probaby yes, because he sounds like a first rate anti-Semite and a history revisionist.
99. Clarification: 97 is a response to 95.
Alexander ,   Herzliya, Israel   (11.27.07)
100. Alexander the "great"!
Futura ,   Sweden   (11.27.07)
If someone in Sweden talked about people/races in the same way as you do, he or she would be charged as a criminal. And yes, I follow this conflict closely, because it affects the rest of the world in a most complex manner. And, I must say, people like yourself is not making it any better. Can't you see that your delusional babble is a path of fear, violence and isolation? And: Am I, as an individual, doomed because of what people in Sweden did almost 60 years ago? It's time for you to come out of that ancient cave of historical path and lebensraum you're dwelling in.
101. Response to Futura nr 100
Alexander ,   Herzliya, israel   (11.28.07)
I am very amused by you epithet, but lets stick to facts only. Correct me if I am wrong, but wasn't it Sweden that was a host for financial collection for the "poor people" of Lebanon last year, albeit it was the Lebanese government and Hizbollah that launched an unprovoced attack on Israel? The Arabs of Sweden are getting so many kids that it is only a question of time when they will take over Sweden. Hating us Jews will not save Sweden from the Arabs, because the goal of the Swedish Arabs is not to live in Sweden as a well integrated minority respecting the Swedish identity of the Swedish state and people, but rather to make sure that Arabs will become masters in Sweden. When that happens, you have no homeland anymore Futura. And guess what? I will laugh a lot because you Swedes deserve it. Internally, the Swedes hate Arabs/Muslims - approximately 70% of the Swedes dislike Arabs/Muslims, but officially Swedes are the "light of civilization" and the sanctimonious Swedes that assisted Germans during WW2, want to absorb foreigners in order to get a "good reputation" in the world as a "liberal and tolerant society". And you Swedes expect 6 billion people and 200 states to believe that? Only because logics and rational thinking are turned up side down and good becomes evil, evil becomes good, truth becomes lies and lies become truth and reality becomes fantasy and fantasy becomes reality, democracy becomes dictatorship and dictatorship becomes democracy in Sweden, it doesn't mean the rest of the world works that way you know. You Swedes are governing a small, weak and pathetic country with no real demographic, political, economic, military, scientific/technological power in the world, so stop playing "the consciousness of the world" and a "major power" because you Swedes are neither. Furthermore, Sweden is the stronghold of political correctness on the expense of right of speech - and that is not very democratic. Sweden has a poor record of "enlightenment": WW2, support of Nazi Germany, support of Arab terrorists that explicitly want to kill Israelis, support of Cuba and Soviet. Would Swedes hand over Stockholm and all its cities to a deadly enemy? Would the Swedes accept that a foreign nation would rewrite Swedish history, launch terror attack on swedish civilians and annihilate Sweden with demographic warfare? We Israelis have had enough of your Swedish anti-Semitism and your support of Hamas, Hizbollah and PLO and Fatah. You always bring the same old "argument": "occupation" - even though there are NO "palestinians" and Jews/Israelis have lived in Israel for 4000 years, and "oppression" - meaning granting West Bank Arabs democratic rights, freedom of speech and press, modern facilities, universities, schools and hospitals and modern housing. Very cruel. History is important to understand how we got to the present situation. You cannot solve the problem if you don't understand the problem. It is utter nonsense that the Arab-Israeli conflict affects the entire world. Neither Israelis nor Arabs can dominate the world demographically, economically, militarily or scientifically/technologically. What you actually are saying is that the "Palestinians" and the 20 Arab states containing 300 million Arabs feel weak confronting 7 millon Israelis in a Jewish state half the size of Denmark. You are talking about mass medial hysteria and PR conferences, not actual and real power and influence. You are not an ethnic Israeli/Jew, you are not an Israeli citizen, you don't live in Israel, so stay out. How EXACTLY is your life affected in sweden? Are you getting gastric ulcer from the fact that Jews/Israelis demand the same freedom and rights that the entire world, including Swedes themselves, take for granted, meaning being in majority in your own land with safe and secure borders, and having ones patrimony and historical heritage respected?
102. 2nd response to Futura
Alexander ,   Herzliya, Israel   (11.28.07)
Would you like to elaborate on "lebensraum", "delusional babble", "getting out of your historical cave", "fear", "isolation" and "violence". Do you claim to be a mind reader? As you cannot possibly know what I am thinking about, your respone is not a response to reality, but your interpretation of reality. Reality exists no matter what we feel about it - remember that. Telling you the truth, from the bottom of my heart, I have no idea what you are babbling about and how you reached your far fetched conclusions and delusional rants. When you deal with people, you must deal with reality and human psychology/behavior, which is a part of reality. Reality and human behavior exist in Sweden as well - there is no divine barrier dividing Sweden fron the laws of nature and human behavior. I do not deny Arabs human rights, they have that in abundance in Israel, and I do not deny them a nation of their own, but not on our expense. Let me give you a metaphor. Let say a Turkish minority lives in Stockholm. They claim that they are "oppressed" and "occupied" by Sweden. Does making a statement change reality? No. In what way are the Turks oppressed? Are they granted freedom of thought, freedom of speech, freedom of press, voting rights, sexual rights, religious rights, right of possession and right of movement? Yes, and the same goes with Israeli Arabs. But what if Turks in Stockhom would like to create a 2nd Turkey - in Sweden - would that be ok? No, because then they would infringe upon the individual and national rights of the Swedish people. Nobody denies Turks national rights, they have Turkey after all. But Turkish national rights only exist in Turkey and Swedish national rights only exist in Sweden. In Israel, there are only Israeli/Jewish national rights. As no "Palestinian" state ever existed in recorded human history, we cannot possibly talk about any "occupation" because International Law states that an occupation can take place, only when State A conquers State B. What is so "racist" and "expansionist" about it? Considering the fact that I happen to live in Israel, the eye of the storm, and I feel perfectly safe inside Israel, you must certainly be a very delicate and fragile person, feeling stressed about events taking place 3000-4000 kilometers away from the safe and boring life in Sweden. I strongly suspect that you are the one who is delusional.
103. Alexander, ROCK ON!!!!!!
JB ,   Ramat Gan, Israel   (11.28.07)
I am a convert to Judaism of Swedish ancestry (my mother was born in Sundsvall, the remainder of my family hailing from Lappland). I would like to thank you for responding to modern European moral relativism and a prime example of its rejection of the traditional Swedish values with which I was raised. If Gustav Vasa or even Gustav VI Adolf took a look at the Sweden of today, both of them would be amazed by Sweden's economic progress, but horrified at its moral decay. Again, thank you, Alexander!
104. Giving away what is not theirs!
Khandle ,   Amarillo, TX USA   (11.28.07)
Rabbi Dov Lior Nd MK Uri Ariel , Your leader is trying to give away more of Israel and our leader won't close our borders to keep out illegal immigrants. Sounds like they both are made out of the same cloth. They will not listen to the people! We have a prayer group at our house on Monday nights. We pray for Israel and not to divide Jerusalem or give any more land away. We pray that the US keep it's sovereignty and get some borders! Our countries need some G-d fearing leaders!
105. Alexander, Herzliyah - Kol Hakavod Lecha
Yisraeli   (11.28.07)
all excellent talkback, facts and responses. even if you do live in the bastion of leftists lol.
106. I agree. But is it possible?
Arthur ,   Israel   (11.28.07)
107. Answer these questions Futura:
Alexander ,   Herzliya, Israel   (11.28.07)
1) Who are you and what do you want? What is your purpose debating in here in an Israeli newspaper? 2)Why should we Israelis listen to you? As we are our own masters of our own lives, we naturally listen to ourselves. 3)Why do you assume that patriotism and nationalism are bad and evil? In what way has Charles from Petah Tikvah "threatened" or "insulted" you by refering to the fact that "Jews have the special thing"? 4)Do you believe there are objective and true facts in this world? If yes, explain. 5)If you believe that there are only opinions and no facts, please explain why you think so. If you make a statement that "there are only opinions", isn't the statement itself an opinion? 6)Do you believe that there is something as right and wrong and good and evil in this world? If yes, explain. If no, explain. 7)Do you believe or assume that you have extra authority or exclusive rights of delivering criticism and opinions to people, because you happen to be a Swede? In other words: do you believe that in the capacity of being a Swede, you always represent truth and justice? Do you believe that Swedes can be critized and held responsible for their wrongdoings?
108. THIS RABBI IS A DISGRACE!
David ,   Los Angeles   (11.28.07)
109. WE'VE GOT A REAL LIVE ONE HERE...
david ,   los angeles   (11.28.07)
I've just been reading Alexander's postings, and boy oh boy do we have a real live one here. Jeezuz H. Christ.
110. 37 Alexander: Palestinians fit the propheciesfor Philistines
Rivkah   (11.28.07)
They had a land called Philistia which was Ashkelon, Ekron, and Ashdod on the coasts of Canaan. The Jewish Prophet Zephaniah says about the latter days when Zechariah says the Jewish Messiah is close to coming to the Mount of Olives from the sky, Zephaniah says when Gaza is forsaken and Ashekelon is a desolation and Ashdod and Ekron are driven out in the noon day, GOD WILL KILL ALL THE PHILISTINES IN THE COASTS OF CANAAN. God is going to dea with the Palestinians, who did have a country long ago one the coasts of ancient Canaan where David fought the giants, Goliath and his brothers who were Philistines.
111. 55 BA: Long ago, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob who
Rivkah   (11.28.07)
created the heavens and the earth made a covenant with the descendants of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, giving them and their descendants a certain territory forever. Read Ezekiel chapter 37 to see that figuratively that is the renewed state of Israel which rose as dead bones from the ovens of Nazi Germany OR literally in the resurrection from the dead in the millenial kingdom of the Jewish Messiah. They have a claim to the land God gave Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Refusing to recognize that claim by the world community will lead to Armageddon, the Prophet Joel tells us is the consequence of dividing "my land" which is God's land that he gave to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob and their descendants. if the world community gives the Jews the land God gave to them with the borders in the Bible, Gentile world rule may last longer than it will otherwise. The Prophet Malachi says that is a way to avoid the terrible wars and prophecies that will otherwise cleanse the earth with fire and floods and earthquakes and volcanic eruptions and pestilences and so many other sorrows: THE LEADERS OF THE EARTHE MUST TELL THE GOD OF ABRAHAM, ISAAC, AND JACOB TO COME TO EARTH TO RULE. He will come without all the terrible judgments if the world repents and asks Him to come and rule.
112. Israel without racists and bigots
ussishkin ,   Tel Aviv Israel   (11.28.07)
Imagine Israel without Rabbis who utter this kind of racist bigotry. Think of our landscape empty of self appointed Jewish religious spokesmen whose version of Judaism is not that of the rest of us. Think of what they would say when we tell them that either they function within the boundaries of our country and within its laws or we will simply abandon them, transfer them perhaps to their countries of origin.
113. To nr 110 Rivkah
Alexander ,   Herzliya, Israel   (11.28.07)
Philisteenes were a people of Greek Indo-European origin from the Greek islands, marauders and pirates raiding the coasts of the Levant. They were non Muslims, non Arabs, had a non Arab alphabet. The Philisteenes came to the coast we today call Gaza about 1000 B.C.E. Today, they are dead and buried. There is no Philisteene culture and people today. "Palestine" is a Roman/Latin name derived from "Philisteene", and that was the name the Romans gave Israel in order to defame the Jews and rewrite their history after Jewish rebellions against the Romans. Arabs or Arabians originate from the soutwestern corner of the Arabian Peninsula 1500-2000 kilometers southeast of Israel, 2600 years after the emergence of biblical Israelites/Hebrews/Jews. When the Arabian warriors and desert marauders raided the Middle East from economic benefit rather than religious ideals, they found themselves in minority among Jews, Christians, Kurds, Kopts, Persians, Turks, Africans and Berbers. Arabian blood was deluted through intermarriage with this non Arab majority and in the beginning of the Umayad Caliphate, the local traditions, cultures and religions were kept intact and most of the time, very few Arab nobles and commoners could brag about pure Arabian blood. Despite existing for 1400 years, The period when Arabs ruled Arabs through Arabs lasted for less than a century, only decades. The Arabian "people" or culture is actually Greek, Hellenistic, Aramaic and Persian traditions in the Arab tongue in the same way as medieval Europeans spoke Latin in Catholic Churches, without being Romans. Many Arab scientists, scholars, tradesmen, soldiers and princes were not Arabs - they were Arab speaking Jews, Kurds, Turks, Persians, Christians and Berbers. The Morian force that invaded Spain consisted of Berbers - not Arabs. Saladin, the great warrior, was Kurdish, not an Arab. Arab definition of an Arab is "someone who speaks Arabic", so the definition is lingual and not racial. Jewish definition of Jewish is ethnic and religious. Anybody can't be Jewish but anybody CAN be an Arab. What I am trying to say Rivkah with this long post, is that the Philisteenes mentioned in the Bible, were in fact Indo-Europeans from the Greek islands and not related to Arabs. Second, "Palestine" is a Roman/Latin name. Third, there is no genuine "Arabian"/"Arab" people or culture today, and definitely no "Palestinian" Arabs.
114. #45 Real Historian, very well said
(11.28.07)
115. the confiscated land was never bought
observer   (11.28.07)
116. Alexander , the blind [ not the "great" ]
Charles ,   petach tikva   (11.28.07)
No Alexander , Israel has to take in account that the world will not accept an "expulsion" of the palestinians . You are right , many of them came in the late 1880's , i wrote this already more than once . But they LIVE here , they see their village , town and so on as their place , as their homeland . And you can say how much you want that this country is not theirs , they can say that it is not yours . Historically this country belongs to the Jewish people , that's why i made Alyah in 2001 . But don't forget , there are other people also living here . Most of them on the other side of the "green line" . If to obtain "peace" we have to give them something , maybe it's worth to try it . I do not want my grandchildren to have to fight , to die , for some 8000 sq. km . Even that i don't see that we will obtain a TRUE peace by giving them this . But one thing is sure , by not giving them anything , we will not live in peace . And i know what peace means , having lived in Europe for most of my life . PS you forgot something regarding the Swedes . They received some 7000 Danish Jewish refugees who were rescued so . Don't call the Swedes antisemites , they are not worse thasn others . The USA rejected the Jews on board of the St Louis , most of them perished in the Shoah
117. ishmael
zichron   (11.28.07)
there is no way israel can expel anymore the arabic people our cousins over stupid arguments on rocky hills desert and a few orange groves . together as cousins the children of abraham we will defend the promised land against nuclear biological and wmd exchanges against the common enemy the hidden ghengis khan in iran .
118. Land for peace
Gerry ,   Corpus Christi, USA   (11.28.07)
What G-d has given Israel cannot be gifted, or paid as ransom for peace. It's the only property deeded by G-d to any people, by what authority can a politician usurp the power to set aside what G-d has ordained. From a Christian Zionist- Who will fight for Israel
119. To nr 115 and 114
Alexander ,   Herzliya, Israel   (11.28.07)
First, to nr 115: the land of Israel was bought by Israelites in acient times and most of Israel within internationally accepted borders was also rebought by Jews in the late 1800s. Jordan never annexed Judea/Samaria and Egypt never annexed Gaza. No "Palestinian" state has ever existed in recorded human history, so there is no "occupation" taking place According to International Law, Judea/Samaria and Gaza are "nobody's land" - Res Nullius - a land technically without any owners and open for conquest and as Israel is the only state around, Jordan and Egypt have no claims, a "Palestinian" state doesn't exist and never existed, Israel has the most credible and trustworthy claims. To nr 114: Pating someone's shoulder without delivering relevant critique and arguments/facts usually does not clarify one's standpoint. You have to deal with facts - not fantasies or political ideologies
120. To nr 116 - Charles from Petah Tikvah
Alexander ,   Herzliya, Israel   (11.28.07)
Listen Charles, I am very amused by your epithet, but let's stick to the factual conversation and not childish mudslinging - b'seder? I understand that you repeat the same argument over and over again: "The Arabs live in Judea, Samaria and Gaza, they have cities and villages there and they consider the land to be their land." I beg to differ. Claiming that something is yours doesn't make it yours. The reason why Israel is ours is not because we think so - it's because we have historical ties to the land of Israel. If we had no history in this land and if we never bought the land, we would have no business here. We Israelis/Jews do not own Spain, Germany, France, UK, Poland, Denmark, Hungary, Russia and so on, because we never had states in those countries. And nation states exist for the explicit purpose that a specific ethnic group of people should own, rule, govern, define, protect, defend and inhabit a specific territory. Living in a piece of land doesn't make anyone an innocent lamb or Mother Teresa, because innocence sits in human behavior and not in dust, sand, gravel, rocks, stones, bushes, trees, valleys, mountains or rivers. Second, living in the land, doesn't say how you got there in the first place - did you invade the land, occupy the land or buy the land or settle it before anyone else did? Living on a piece of land doesn't make anyone just. Was Nazi Germany's cause just because they happened to own and live, work on German territory? No. Was their cause right because they believed that the entire world belonged to them? No. Thirdly, living on a piece of land doesn't mean you own it. Is the territorial ownership of the UK handed over to the Germans if the Germans would invade UK? No, because then we claim that no state is independent and sovereign and that no state owns its territory, which would bring to two terrible conclusions: any country can attack any country and conquer the land and territory for any reason and two, the citizenship rights of the people including their private indivdual right of possession wouldn't exist, because the state they live in doesn't own its own land. Furthermore, no "Palestinian" state has ever existed in Israel nor the rest of the world in recorded human history. Second, Jordan never annexed Judea and Samaria and Egypt never annexed Gaza Strip. According to International Law, an occupation can take place only when State A conquers State B. When Israel was attacked and threatened in 1967, Israel captured Judea and Samaria from Jordan, that Jordan invaded in an Arab war of aggression in 1948, and Israel captured Gaza Strip from Egypt, that captured Gaza in the Arab war of aggression 1948. Jordan and Egypt have no claims. No "Palestine" existed when Israeli tanks rolled into Judea, Samaria and Gaza, so my question is: what "occupation"?According to International Law, Israel has the strongest and most credible and trustworthy claims to the land of Israel.
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