Opinion
Road Map is illegal
Yoram Shiftan
Published: 29.11.07, 16:26
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72 Talkbacks for this article
1. A professor with brains
Judah ,   Golan Heights,ISRAEL   (11.29.07)
2. Very Interesting
edd ,   london Uk   (11.29.07)
But olmert is stupid, and Livni is a confused pariah!
3. Israeli law also says it's a crime to give away the land...
Nannette ,   London   (11.29.07)
Israeli Penal Code – 1977, Section 97(b) A person who, with intent that any area be withdrawn from the sovereignty of the State or placed under the sovereignty of a foreign state, commits an act calculated to bring this about, is liable to life imprisonment or the death penalty. DAVID BEN-GURION “No Jew is at liberty to surrender the right of the Jewish Nation and the Land of Israel to exist. No Jewish body is sanctioned to do so. No Jew alive today has the authority to yield any piece of land whatsoever. This right is preserved by the Jewish people throughout the generations and cannot be forfeited under any circumstance. Even if at some given time there will be those who declare that they are relinquishing this right, they have neither the power nor the jurisdiction to negate it for future generations to come. The Jewish Nation is neither obligated by nor responsible for any waiver such as this. Our right to this land, in its entirety, is steadfast inalienable and eternal. And until the coming of the Great Redemption, we shall never yield this historic right.”
4. Thank you Dr. Yoram Shiftan
Abel Shoni ,   France   (11.29.07)
..."The Weizmann-Faisal Agreement, which ruled that the Ottoman Empire will be divided into one Arab country and one Jewish country. The Jewish state was to spread across the whole of Palestine – including current-day Jordan." The Professor said it all !
5. Leadership needed
Josef Matamoros ,   Finland   (11.29.07)
Yoram Shiftan speaks clever, truthful words. There are countless millions of people like me, Christian lovers of Israel, around the world. And, we look for Israeli leadership who trusting Israel's existence in the future from sea to the river shall be a non-negotiable fact. The land belongs to Israel and Israelis, even though Arabs may reside there as a national minority.
6. LOL!!!
C'est Moi ,   Canada   (11.29.07)
Does zionism know what international law means? Or is it a one way highway? It is really funny to hear about God and "special" people...it really sounds like the rhetoric useed by a group of people in europe back when there was no such thing as "Israel."
7. The author does not understand facts OR international law
TJ ,   Toronto, Canada   (11.29.07)
It's amazing that this author selectively applies International Law. In fact, the Fourth Geneva Conventions are International Law, yet he fails to ever mention it. The right of refugee return is a concept clearly written in International Law. The Faisal-Weizmann agreement survived only a few months, and its participants did not have the authority to make decisions about inhabitants which it did not represent. Legally, the British and French had already made decisions under the Sykes-Picot Agreement of 1916, and the Balfour Declaration of 1917 set the legal precedence for the outcome of Palestine/Israel. In the British White Paper of 1922, the British cleared up their position of the Jewish homeland, insisting that although Israel was to be place for Jews to have a homeland, it in no way implied that the country must be run by Jews and all non-Jewish be forcefully transferred. In fact, the British actions of stopping Jewish immigration to the area further demonstrated that the intentions of the British in the area were not being followed by the Zionists. The author claims that this agreement is "law", yet after Faisal was expelled from Syria and given the Kingdom of Iraq, he contended that the conditions he appended were not fulfilled and the treaty therefore moot. Let me state that part again, Faisal himself, declared the treaty MOOT. How can an author with even an ounce of self-respect not conduct basic research before publishing an article? I suggest he reads books on international law, and understands the facts of the events he writes about.
8. C'est Toi, 6#, who are you to talk?
Judah ,   Golan Heights,ISRAEL   (11.29.07)
Which international law do you refer to? The League of Nations or the United Nations that was supposed to follow earlier agreements by its predecessor that promised the Jews a homeland? When I lived in Canada I lived on land which was previously a Huron village. At least now I live on land that my ancestors lived on 2,000 years ago until the Romans killed and expelled us.
9. Are you serious?
Jnick   (11.29.07)
The Faisal-Weizmann agreement was contingent on Britain keeping its wartime promises to Faisal and his father Sharif Hussein. Specifically, a single independant Arab kingdom their control. Instead, the British and French carved the middle east into a pile of weak, divided states under European control. The UN affirmed that the fact this condition was not met made the agreement null (See official records of the second session of the General Assembly A/364 3 September 1947).
10. Dr. Shiftan, in time you will realize...
Joe ,   Los Angeles, CA   (11.29.07)
Dr. Shiftan, in time you will realize that international law, history, facts and logic are details nobody cares about in the Arab-Israeli conflict. The reason for this is because these four factors don't make headline news like "The Joooooooz are building an Apartheid Wall!!!" Indeed, the media and their coverage of the conflict is the most problematic aspect regarding its resolution. When reporters and editors are more interested in giving a voice to both positions of a given conflict, regardless of their factual content, instead of digging down into the factual content of those positions and exposing whatever untruths and logical fallacies they are based on, you'd be better off wrapping salmon in newspapers instead of utilizing them as a source of information.
11. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!
Secular Eagle   (11.29.07)
I've been laughing so hard reading this sorry piece of B.S. that my diaphragm nearly burst! This guy should be placed in a lunatic asylum for observation. What is this: international law according to Pamela Anderson?? Get with it, losers: the occupied territories are gone. Doesn't matter who actually signs the agreement. Olmert, Beilin, Netanyahu or someone else... - we have no future in the West Bank so quit building these castles in the air. You're getting very boring. This "article" is great light relief though! :-)))))))))))))
12. Muhammad promised the land to the Muslims
Nutty Professor   (11.29.07)
Gandhi promised it to the Hindus and an invisible man in the sky promised it to Moses. What a bunch of bull. You speak of the international law you break on a daily basis by terrorizing civilian population and threatening to cut off electricity for Gaza hospitals. And Gandhi promised it to the Hindus. And an invisible man in the sky promised it to Moses. What a bunch of bull.
13. # 6 "C'est Moi" has not read or worse
Abel Shoni ,   France   (11.29.07)
understood the article. Are you really at ease with International Law ? If yes, make out your case before laughing !
14. Duh? Can this "professor" read?
JPS ,   Efrat   (11.29.07)
Ok, Shiftan says "The Jewish state was to spread across the whole of Palestine – including current-day Jordan." Yessiree indeedy. And he says a big basis for this is the Weizmann-Faisal Agreement. Yep. In which Article VI says "The Mohammedan Holy Places shall be under Mohammedan control." And which holy place in the center of the Jewish state would this be? Um, like the one and only Temple Mount? So Shiftan pulls the rug out from under his own argument, since he's given the Temple Mount over to the Muslims. Or did he think King Faisal was just kidding about the Muslim holy places?
15. Tranjordan used British Palestine currency and passports
Jake   (11.29.07)
and was part of Mandate Palestine right down the line, until 1946. The British census figures of 1921 showing 700,000 living in Palestine (as Arabs like to mention) include HALF that number living in Transjordan.
16. Tut Anach Amon promissed the land to the Egyptians
Faisal   (11.29.07)
17. Everyone should read post #7
David L.   (11.29.07)
And see why this article is crap.
18. "Secular Eagle", I hope you had a good laugh
Jake   (11.29.07)
but the one who who laugh last will laugh best.
19. Talking talking Talking
Greg ,   Raanana   (11.29.07)
Perhaps it is time that Shiftan realises that words are worthless, and perhaps that it is easy to criticize once you ostracize yourself from the reality on the ground. This article is a mineful of information, on pseudo-zionism that could be traced to its writer very easily, if he had the courage of his disclosing his real name, and personal situation. How easy it is to worry about future jewish generations when one is biaised and flawed in his judgement by living an entirely different reality than the one you propose
20. There is also treason laws on Israeli books
Brooke   (11.29.07)
for dividing Israel. Why is there not a legal movement to arrest all past and current knesset memebers and enforce this law.?? WAKE UP ISRAEL--your true enemies are your leaders. Enforce the law---take to the streets until this gov't falls.
21. all legal doccuments
(11.29.07)
from all funds, united nations, british mandate doccuments and league of nation doccuments pertaining to this binding legal issue, international bilding legal issue, together with international lawyers should have accompanied olmert to annapolis to begin with. a doccuments cannot be refuted or nulled just because the arabs say so, or bush says so to appease arab oil producing countries or appease palestinian terrorism or collect all arab nations under one umbrella to get them all against iran and isolate it on israeli territory account and land concessions. these legal issues together vwith the million of jewish arabs expelled pre 1948 from all arab lands and their compensation should be the primary grounds for rejection of any arab claim to the land israel is on now.
22. #2
(11.29.07)
neither olmert nor livni or anyone in israel will have the final say or legal right without a referendum of the citizenry of israel on giving up any land to these arab usurpers. without an israeli referendum and a vote of 80 knesset memebers, neither olmert nor his gang can sell one inch of jewish territory to arabs. i believe israelis should use this international legal doccuments as their own sword in the battle to keep all legally promised land for the jews no matter what arabs say or what bush says. bush will not be allowed to rape our country and minimize its security because he's chummy chummy with the gang in saudi arabia. enough is enough!
23. The Professor is completely wrong!
Charles B. Hall ,   Bronx, NY   (11.29.07)
The Palestine Mandate did not give all of Palestine to the Jewish people. It simply said that there should be a Jewish National Home "in" Palestine without specifying boundaries. And it excluded everything east of the Jordan river from that. Furthermore, it specifically promised that "civil and religious rights of all the inhabitants of Palestine, irrespective of race and religion" be safeguarded; this is not an exclusion of non-Jews from the nationality.The Weitzmann-Faisal agreement was never ratified so it has no legal standing, and even it specified no boundary and included the provision that Muslim holy sites be under Muslim control -- presumably meaning the Temple Mount. These documents are easily accessible on the internet with a quick search; it amazes me how we can put out such false information. We can not complain about Arab falsehoods when we promulgate our own lies. These arguments do us no good whatsoever.
24. #7 from Toronto, Thank you for you excellent post
Fred Farkle ,   Burbank, CA   (11.29.07)
You post was spot on and clearly debunks the authors wild and uneducated claims. Thanks again and keep em coming.
25. I knew it
Zeal ,   Zionist America   (11.29.07)
Once again you Zionist Fascists, like you, Yoram Shiftan, have not renounced your expansionist goals; you have not renounced Jordan as part of your country, and it will only be a matter of time before you attack it (as goal number 4 of the Zionist plan I put together). You Zionists claim that Jordan is Palestine and argue on that basis that Palestinians in the West Bank should be transferred there so you could settle it. But remember: if you give a mouse a cookie, he is going to want a glass of milk; after the West Bank, you'll want Jordan (see Irgun poster)- you may claim Syria or Lebanon is Palestine before you swallow it up. It's just a theory as of today, but observing your deceptive and barbaric ways, my overall theory could prove correct. Have it your way Zionist Blood Oranges! FREE PALESTINE! فلسطين حرة!
26. Secular bird brain
Ilan ,   Ariel   (11.29.07)
Sad to see that you lack Torah, lack morality and even lack an appreciation for secular knowledge. Good that you know how to laugh, people like you make me feel pity.
27. no. 18 - if we ever listen to this 'professor'..........
yisraeli   (11.29.07)
.........the last laugh will be had by the palestinian and arab extremists. blind belligerence has never brought anyone any good.
28. #9, One can only hope he isn't
(11.29.07)
Because if this type of shit-for-brains diatribe is considered to be a serious contribution to a mainstream Israeli newspaper, then our country is in one serious shtuck. I'm hoping Ynet published this in the Humor section...
29. #25: you're just as knocked in your head as Shiftan
Secular Eagle   (11.29.07)
30. #29 Secular Eagle
Zeal ,   Zionist America   (11.30.07)
You are the second person who has pathetically insulted me on these forums. Shame on you, you Socialist Bird.
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