Jewish Scene
Prof. Dror: Israel, world Jewry drifting apart
Ynet
Published: 23.01.08, 15:44
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1. Israel and the DIaspora
Ros ,   TA   (01.23.08)
It has never been easier living in the Israel than in the Diaspora. People who come to live here come by choice. We are all Jews living in our Jewish State. Being born in Israel makes one an Israeli Jew, a Jew born in America is an American Jew, etc. No one is forced to live here, but we can never be chased out!!
2. What are you smoking? Israel is OUR homeland.
David ,   Boston, USA   (01.23.08)
Always has been, always will be. My first and only visit so far confirmed everything I have believed my whole life. I would kill or die to defend it (and my home) Israel is my homeland, US is my home. I love both equally, but differently.
3. Prof. Dror
Jon ,   USA   (01.23.08)
This is complete baloney. You cannot move in Israel without tripping on Taglit kids. Diaspora tourists are packing Israeli hotels. Who pays people to do these lame studies?
4. Myth in the making by Prof.Dior !
ben shlomo ,   singapore   (01.23.08)
5. RIFT
JK ,   NYC   (01.23.08)
Americna Jews are totally assimilated and know zero hebrew.
6. Re Diaspora Jews
Rod ,   Fargo, N.Dakota USA   (01.23.08)
I think this has alot to do with Olmert and his family.They see his daughter as an ultra leftists harrasing Israeli soldiers,his sons who never served in the IDF and living ourside of Israel.And last but not least the terrible corruption in the Israeli Govt. Olmerts ties to S.Daniel abraham the constant corruptor of Israeli politicians,and the many other rich left wing U.S. tycoons who influence Israeli Politicians and do not represent U.S. Jews
7. To #2 : Pipe - connection people!
Mark ,   Florida   (01.23.08)
8. This Guy is RETARDED !!
Andrew ,   Miami,FL   (01.23.08)
9. David - Home is a Homeland - You're Delusional
ys ,   israel   (01.23.08)
10. Nutty professor!
J ,   Antwerp   (01.23.08)
Israel is why we live for! Israel is why we fight for in the diaspora!
11. Agree
Shachar ,   NYC   (01.23.08)
Jews in America outside of the small percent educated in day schools, gave up on judaism and jewishness a long time ago, they never learned any hebrew at all, and 99% of america non-orthodox non-day school educated cannot understand even a word of Ha-Tikvah, so this is news, non orthodox intermarraige is about 60%, you think jewish means anything to them, I know many families where all the children have intermarried, non orthodox religious observance is almost zero, hebrew knowledge zero.etc etc. Israel itself has gotten so anti-religious with Gush Katif and Amona the religious american jews are having second thoughts.
12. He is right
joseph ,   Israel   (01.23.08)
Can a Jew take pride in Yassam troops beating women and children because they are Jews? Can a Jew take pride in 14 year old Jewish girls abused in prison for three weeks for a "crime" for which an Arab or a member of Olmert's party would not be arrested? Can a Jew take pride in the residents of Sderot huddled in fear from rockets while Israel supplies fuel and medicine to the enemy? Can a Jew take pride in a country which agrees to negotiate with people who won't accept its existence? Can a Jew take pride in a country where a drafting-dodging Prime Minister sends 30 soldiers to a needless death to shore up his popularity while his own sons drink cappuccino in Paris?
13. 35% US Jewry Visit Israel
Meir ,   Toronto   (01.23.08)
Only 1 in 3 American Jews have ever visited Israel The lowest in the Diaspora by far. This stat say's it all as to the US Jewry connection to Israel.
14. The American Jews don't understand
Miri   (01.23.08)
Israel is not a spiritual place. It's a country. They see a different picture there. Donating money, bring camels....come and live here and then understand.
15. I agree with findings but not recommendations.
Olej Gamur ,   formerly Israel   (01.23.08)
I agree 100% with findings but not the recommendations. One cannot think of Israel or ANY Israelis using words such as consider, consult, cultivate (ex farming), or coherent. "administer Diaspora Jewry" UNTHINKABLE. Diaspora Jewry is fine without the meddling of low-level do-nothing bureaucrats. NON-Israelis TAKE NOTE: ALL decisions in Israel are made based on personal gain. There are NO native altruists. If you think otherwise, go live there for a few years... sacrificing your career, your retirement, your health and possibly your life. Email me for REAL LIFE examples.
16. With all due respect to diaspora Jews...
Tahl ,   Israel   (01.23.08)
What should dictate Israel's policy is the fate of the Israeli Jews living inside it, not the fate of diaspora Jews. Defending Sderot from Kassams by initiating a large offensive and then imposing a siege on Gaza; defending against suicide-bombers by erecting a security fence; and strengthening Jerusalem's Jewish identity by reinofrcing constructions around it, despite whatever the world may say - are grave issues pertaining to Israel's fate. For such issues, there is too much at stake here than to start pondering the influence on diaspora Jews. Other, non-grave issues such as assessing the "who is a Jew" question, seriously improving Israel's PR efforts worldwide, marketing Israel as a special place -one they can be proud of, and finally, deepening the dialogue and interactions with the diaspora Jews - are all extremely welcome.
17. Israel then and now - 1967 vs 2008
Raymond from DC ,   Washington, DC USA   (01.23.08)
Only someone who lived through the the Six Day War of 1967 in the Diaspora can appreciate its impact. After weeks of threat followed by unalloyed triumph, Israel earned a world of support and respect. It was in the aftermath that the flood of tourists, young and old, began. It ignited the Havurah movement, adult Jewish education, and the explosion of Jewish Studies departments on campuses. The Soviet Union's "Jews of Silence" were silent no more. We saw the same pride in 1976 after Israel's daring rescue mission to Entebbe. What do we have now? An Israeli Prime Minister who promotes Palestinian interests rather than defending those of his people. Rampant post-Zionism on the campuses and among the intelligentsia. An unaccountable "democracy" mediated by a corrupt party system. A shackled IDF that can't move without coordinating with the White House. An Israeli polity that stands aside as its national heritage is destroyed by the Wakf. No one respects a loser, someone who won't stand up for himself. Israel needs to clean up its political act, and make clear it has a raison d'etre.
18. growing distance with diaspora jews
Michael ,   Canada   (01.23.08)
Well, at least in Canada vast majority of the Jewish population is secular, and so I believe in the US. Most don't really follow any prominent Jewish leaders. In my opinion the youths are maybe cooling down towards Israel because: in the recent years due to relative Israel's stability it lost the "heroic aura" as an inspired victim of aggression struggling for survival, with one victory after another, since most current threats come from unimpressive terrorrist groups practicing small localized and not existantially significant attacks. What to do about it? Well, certainly now it's better than being on the constant verge of war with whole armies, so the only great thing Israel could do is to have more active mature professional Hasbara. So that every time the Jewish youths abroad stand to defend the latest Israeli air strike on Gaza or other such actions, they are armed with actual facts and can explain the reasons behind them, the situation and the options that Israel has. Another thing is to make an effort to be known as a cultured, fun, exciting diverse country. If Israel is mentioned abroad not only in the political context, but also is more known for it's landscapes, culture, care for nature, compassion for others, friendliness, diversity, exciting places and activities and fun to offer, all people, not only jews, will feel an irresistable urge to learn more, be more sympathetic and visit Israel. Now most people here think it's like a war zone, that it has no other attractions but the biblical stuff, stones and lots of tension. (For example, ynetnews, being an international network, has their front page full of the images of the conflict, while the culture page and the "activism" page showing the generosity of Israeli spirit, are hidden far behind.) And the only reason for this PR should be benefit for Israel of course, political, cultural and economical; just pleasing the Diaspora jews shouldn't become the goal.
19. there is a problem but not for his reasons
zionist forever   (01.23.08)
I am not sure that the situation is quite as bad as this proffesor makes out but there are problems and they are not for the reasons he mentions. 1) The holocaust is something that you read about in history books today, jews in the diaspora feel safe and happy they dont feel a need to have a state there to protect them the American & European governments will do that. 2) Religion in general outside Israel is watered down, today in the US they have hanuka trees When your friends are non jews you pick up their habbits. Better to hang out with your non jewish friends on Saturday than pray. 3) The peace process - the west has become so obsesed with the peace process and see Israel as an illigal occupier of palestian lands etc. The palestian propoganda teams have worked wonders. Israel is now seen by jews as a bad guy not a jewish land. 4) Israel has bad leaders especialy the current regime and the whole political system needs to be changed to create stable democratic coalition free government which would get rid of the extreme parties on the left and right making politics work better. An indipendently drawn up constiution is also needed to keep the likes of Olmert in line tell him what he can or cannot do to push through his politcal ideas. 5) Israel also still has an image abroad of this backwards society which achives nothing nobody notices the technological achivements that are happening here. Its become a place to go for a vacaction but otherwise stay well away.
20. Joseph #12 100% correct!
Volvi   (01.23.08)
There is much truth in this article and if you cant see it your either blind or dont want to see it. What I have seen happening in Israel since the Osloids shames me to the core. I have seen more anti semitism in Israel then the rest of the world combined and made policy by its supposed jewish government with a "jewish department" in the shin bet. As Joseph #12 said it all so well. Israel has become pitiful and more and more less relevant to Jews. My son wanted to volunteer to go in the army there from chull, I as an Israeli who served in tzahal said to him over my dead body you will. I will not let you become cannon fodder for the whims of the ruling elites in Israel who are anti jews as was seen in the last war. He has slowly come to see the truth of this.
21. to #2 David - Kill or die to defend it?
Darren ,   Toronto, Canada   (01.23.08)
Its going to be hard to Kill or die in defense of Israel when you are in Boston. time to move?
22. 2- real sincere question
AMERICAN FIRSTER   (01.23.08)
I have ALWAYS wondered. you say you as a jew love Israel as your homeland-like USA too. but if USA and Israel had a war , who would you side with? THEN I will see your true colors. and dont say this will never happen. too many Isareli/American spies have been caught in the USA in the last era and abroad. and our relationship is fragile.
23. Professor, you are a snob
velvel in decatur ,   Georgia USA   (01.23.08)
What do you wish Jews in the Diaspora to do? Be loud with checkbooks and quiet with questions? Perhaps if there were better explanations of why the Haredi consider Reform as pagans and women as baby machines there would better understanding. Israel is doing a poor job explaining why it is important to Jews in the Diaspora and everyone else that the State and its inhabitants flourish. There is also too much at stake to attack Jews in the Diaspora. Educate them by saying "why" instead of arrogantly saying "you would never understand unless you lived here." Give me good reasons to back you and I will, but don't insult me.
24. The Professor is correct
RAY ,   USA   (01.23.08)
What a country Israel has become.. Allows the Temple Mount to be raped; uproots is patriotic settlers from Gaza for the benefit of Hamas, is on the verge of giving up East Jerusalem, Judea and Samaria; abandoned it's South Lebanese Allies OVERNIGHT for Hizbolla; etc,etc,etc. Any wonder Western Diaspora Jews no longer recognize the Jewish State?????
25. Israel , world Jewry drifting apart
charles ,   petach tikva   (01.23.08)
This is not new , 30 or 40 years ago this was foreseen , i have already read something as this then , nothing news . We have different views , lives , problems . We are confronted with different ways of life , with different people and with different neighbours . Another reason , in many places abroad , the younger generation become more estranged to Judaism , more assimilated . This also brings this separation . Only possibility to change this , a full time Jewish education , not necesarrely only religious , but in a Jewish sphere , in a Jewish school . Less chance for them to assimilate , to marry non Jews , but more chance to stay connected to Israel
26. Well, it's only normal
Walt ,   Israel   (01.23.08)
Jews in the diaspora coming to terms with the fact that there IS a difference between Am'Israel and Medinat'Israel and it's inhabitants? Good morning! Honestly: Seeing it from the US, Australia or the EU Israel is a third-world country, a corrupt cleptocracy, run and populated mostly by selfish maniacs and crazy religious, unwilling to solve either interior or exterior problems and displaying an annoying "eat my shorts" attitiude, or, if it serves them, a whiny the-whole-world-is-against-us approach towards friend and foe. Israelis abroad are mostly a big fat pain in the butt and anything else but amassadors for their country, being loud and rude and obnoxious and getting involved in shady businesses.... Are you REALLY that surprised?
27. Placing sole blame on Israeli leadership is mistaken
Shalom Freedman ,   Jerusalem Israel   (01.23.08)
It is difficult to quarrel with the description provided by Professor Dror of a distancing of a good share of the American- Jewish community in Israel. But it is unfair to put the entire blame or perhaps even the major blame on the Israeli leadership. This patronizing attitude supposes the 'Diaspora Jews' follow our lead. In fact the internal processes of American society are the major cause of the distancing. The assimilation and intermarriage all are part and parcel of the open society. Still there is a large segment of American Jewry which is deeply attached to Israel. Birthright(Taglit) is a step in the right direction. And more effort should be made to connect young Jews to Israel. As for the point that Israel is no longer seen as a refuge. Well Israel is not to be blamed for this. We did not invent Khomeni's Iran and we did not invent the backward Arab world which would rather hate us( This true of the Palestinian Arabs especially) than develop their society for good by living in peace with us.
28. talkbakers
Andrew ,   Perth, Australia   (01.23.08)
Some of the comments here are indicative of the fact that this debate is healthy and much needed. By the way, the Diaspora is far more than just the USA. Jewish kids in the USA have far less chance connecting to their heritage than other Diaspora kids. Our identity in chutz laartez is based on love and pride in Israel. That is diminishing directly proportionate to the level that Israel is politically sliding from its mandate to deliver a Jewish state for Jewish people to uphold Jewish values.
29. SELF-HATING!!!
MATTHEW ,   U.S.A.   (01.23.08)
Alomost all the Jews I know in the U.S. have never visited Israel. It's because they are uneducated about Israel and they are self-hating. If all U.S. Jews only visited Israel every couple years and contributed some money here and there, Israel would be more vibrant, prosperous and be able to maintain its integrity. Most American Jews could care less about Israel...I have worked in a Jewish Community Center for almost ten years. And I'm amazed at the lack of solidarity towards Israel. What a shame. If only Diasporic Jews really knew the meaning of their Torah, then they would be more supportive of Israel. I support Israel more than most American Jews and I am not Jewish. Go IDF!!!
30. DROR IS WRONG
Mitchell ,   Miami, USA   (01.23.08)
The success of Birthright and Nefesh be Nefesh proves that Dror is wrong. Further evidence is found in the level of support for Israel in the United States and Canada and in other Jewish communities. That Israelis may be different from Diaspora Jews has always been a fact. I would like to see some empirecal evidence to support Dror' theory. Bad news sells- good news does not.
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