Jewish Scene
Holocaust-themed Rio Carnival float causes strain
Reuters
Published: 30.01.08, 09:17
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29 Talkbacks for this article
1. New boundaries of creepyness & bad taste!
Cameron ,   USA   (01.30.08)
2. dance macabre
Harissa ,   Israel   (01.30.08)
Is going to be indeed a shock... Good for the new generations...reedition of horror and not so good for the survivers... Somthing to think about.
3. disrespect holocoust
Chana Kelman ,   jerusalem israel   (01.30.08)
i work daily with holocaoustsurvivors what you are doing i the most disgrace towards these people ever, hoorible, awfull. Look at yoyrself, what is in your mind people who organize this they are very, very, very sick themselves
4. the author compares genocide imagery with icons
er der   (01.30.08)
". . the use of religious references . ."
5. Shocking is in the eyes of the beholder
(01.30.08)
With all due respect, Harissa makes sense to me. What is understandably shocking and offensive to survivors turns out to be a useful mechanism to educate the next generation about how horrid things can be if people turn a blind eye.
6. NEW LOW!
Miriam ,   Israel   (01.30.08)
7. veeeeeeeeeeeeery creepy
Zvi   (01.30.08)
I think it's important to remember the Shoah, but this just seems obscene to me. They're trying to be shocking, and using the Holocaust to achieve that. I don't believe in using the memory of the Shoah as a kind of horror pornography.
8. Discusting!
Avraham ,   Israel   (01.30.08)
Gives new meaning to the "term "how low can one get"!
9. It makes perfect sense...
Josh   (01.30.08)
...it is signs and wonders. If any of the rabbis actually read and understood Torah they would know what this is and why it actually belongs there amid those responsible for it. Considering the Torah describes chose life and chose death it makes perfect sense and is another example of G-d talking and no one listening. These artists were inspired to do the hideous. Jesus came to punish the Jews. He was a Jew. He said he came to burn up the chafe as he spoke to the secular fallen Jews who became his followers. The sinners were who he was targeting. These followers ignored Torah and followed the teachings of the Jewish Church just as Devarim 13 predicted. They failed the test just as most secular and many dati Jewish of today would also fail the test. By not doing Torah a long line of curses are spelled out and no one can deny the similarity of the Holocaust to not only the curses of Torah but the mission that Jesus the Jew clearly stated he came to do. Not to come and bring peace but tho bring the sword amid the family of Israel. Who can dispute history and what has occurred as a result of these fallen Jewish people who became Christians? Who will deny the swastika is a Sanskrit cross? Who will deny the crusades or the pogroms of history? So when you have a Christian carnival with its roots in Jesus (one that wasn't engulfed by flooding on the day a gay pride march was scheduled as in the US), it is no wonder that the reminder of what this Jewish roots rebellion of making merry (מרי) has a achieved. When Moses spoke of a great humiliation, did he know this group celebration for a chose death fallen sect of Judaism would dance half naked around the fallen bodies of their lost Jewish family? Can you say golden calf? What will a reveler say in the court of heaven, I didn't see anything wrong to tell me I was on the wrong path? Their very symbol hung around their necks is that of a dead Jewish man on a cross. Chose life or chose death. Rebellion ( מֶרִי) , to make merry, against Torah is not now nor has it ever been an empty thing. G-d is connecting the dots. It is so out of place it is clear that G-d put it there as he put in the Pharaoh's heart to keep the Hebrews against better judgment. Return to Torah and stop the rebellion with false g-ds and Babylonian magic. Then we can dance and sing for G-d and not for the rebellion and our own self carnage as descendants of Israel.
10. why do people expect so much from the
(01.30.08)
nostrim. Nothing is too disgusting if it includes dehumanising jews.
11. y do we always think we have a lock on Holocausts?
sally forth ,   jerusalem of course   (01.30.08)
we are so overly sensitive for ourselves and forget: 1. Armenian Holocaust 2. 6 million other people murdered between 1939 and 1945 (homosexuals, gypsies, mentally ill and handicapped people, clergy, etc) 3. Cambodian Holocaust carried out by the Khumar Rouge 4. Ruandan holocaust If people need to see a float with dead models on them to remind them of the foul evil that we as human beings are cabable of then so be it. BTW, the lack of cultural respect for the Brazilians shown by the Jews there is astonishing! but then that's a whole other matter isn't it?
12. Dispicable, shameful and obnoxious!
disgusted   (01.30.08)
13. the shvarzes try to redirect and vodoo the holocaust
(01.30.08)
14. DIstasteful yes, shocking yes
Petra ,   usa   (01.30.08)
and perhaps those watching will get the message, NEVER AGAIN!!!
15. 11#, Sally , you really cannot see the difference?
Judah ,   Golan Heights,ISRAEL   (01.30.08)
It is true that mankind is capable of horrible acts and there have been many sad periods yet the holocaust(the Shoah) is unique. I suggest that you talk to survivors and listen carefully to what they tell you.
16. Clueless, shocking, disgusting, reductionist, inappropriate
Márcia ,   Brazil   (01.31.08)
Distasteful. Sickening!!! I'm so deeply sorry and ashamed, Israel! And speechless.
17. Unclassifiable.
Márcia ,   Brazil   (01.31.08)
18. Mixed feelings
j ,   usa   (01.31.08)
It is horrific, shocking, indeed an eye opener. If I saw this float coming down the street, it would definitely stir many emotions within me. My first thought would be.. how could this ever happen... The next would be.. i would NEVER want this to happen to any group of people EVER again. I understand most of you think it is inappropriate, and of bad taste... (rightfully so) In some respect, I do not this this is the appropriate atmosphere to be addressing this part of our history. But this is exactly the opposite of Holocaust denial. In a way , I can see what they are trying to achieve.... Its almost like, even in the partying atmosphere of carnivale, they are like... LOOK WHAT HAPPENED, take a second to stop partying , and think about what happened, why we never want this to happen again, what we can do to prevent this from every happening once again. I have not seen the whole float, so I'm not able to judge, but I would suggest to the art director to provide information regarding the holocaust to go along w/ this float. just a thought. hopefully I won't be attacked for this.
19. #15 Iconographically the float is a uniquely Jewish Shoa...
Sally Forth ,   Jerusalem of course   (01.31.08)
It is also possible to a create floats that are iconographically unique for each of the other holocausts that I mentioned. My point was to clearly remind all of us that there have been other holocausts and to use your expression each one is unique and specific in the ethnic religious group that it targeted. BTW, I have spoken with Jewish Holocaust survivors in Israel and the United States. I have also spoken with Gypsy Holocaust survivors in the United States and Spain. Their stories given that both groups were in the same type of camps are remarkably similar. May I suggest that you read Jorge Semprun's account of life at Buchenwald concentration camp. Semprun is the communist son of a Spanish Republican Ambassador who ended up in the concentration camp as a result of his political beliefs. He won the Jerusalem Prize in 1997 for his writings about the Holocaust. After reading Semprun go back and read Elie Weisel and then see if you can find the differences that would make Weisel's experience unique from Semprun's experience. I think you will be hard put to do so.
20. Carnaval at RIO
NARAH CORREA ,   BRASIL   (01.31.08)
I'd like just to tell to YNET readers that it isn't the first time that Rio's Carnaval presents shocking scenes at their parade. Most of them about terrible things that happened in Brasil itself. It's a form of protest against the worst. It's allways done in a respectful way. I personally don't like this kind of theme at the Carnaval. Because for me Carnaval is a celebration of the happiness of being alive. But Rio is a highly politicized city and the artists from there sometimes like to use this huge stage to talk about these themes. And for sure I have no experience with holocaust survivors but in my humble opinion the ones that will fell ashamed at the parade gonna be the german tourists......... And finally, Márcia , Brazil # 16 and #17 no one in Brasil use the letter Z in the country name, only foreigners do this...........hum, strange, very strange................
21. #20 thanks 4 cultural perspective!
Sally Forth ,   Jerusalem of course!   (01.31.08)
22. #20 Narah
Márcia ,   Brazil   (01.31.08)
A mistake made yesterday does not justify a mistake made today. If anything, this "depiction"of the Holocaust clearly shows is that what Viradouro's artistic director -- and you, for that matter -- do not understand is the very nature of Anti-Semitism and Nazism, and this is the scariest part. As for the supposedly educative interest, the float is so uneffective that people who had been working on it had no idea it was 'depicting' the Holocaust; they thought it was about the victims of last year's airplane crash. Brazil with a 'z' is just English. Real colonization, as slavery, is in the mind.
23. Cultural? Hardly! -- #21 Sally
Márcia ,   Brazil   (01.31.08)
What you are really saying, Sally, is that Brazilians (oh, those exotic, good savages!) should be left in the dark forever, just for the amusement of others.
24. #20, Narah: there are limits for everything!
Flavio ,   São Paulo, Brasil   (01.31.08)
I do not see the Holocaust being treated "in a respectful way", in this case. Viradouro's float shows a terrible, unspeakable bad taste. Some things simply cannot be made part of "happiness of being alive", they are impossible to mix, just like water and oil. Frankly, it is disgusting, Viradouro must reconsider its float with urgence! PS1: English is the language of Ynet talkbacks, hence "Brazil" with "z", please let us not be paranoids about it!
25. Marcia! gimme a break & don't think 4 me I do well on my own
Sally Forth ,   Jerusalem of course!   (01.31.08)
I have learned that generally when a friendly opponent chooses to "dis" his/her opponent it is generally because they lack their own positive position from which to defend their views. You my dear need to rethink your position so that you can present it in a positive manner without needing to be an insouciant churl towards others and their opinions. Have a nice day! Oh and by the way given the choice I would rather be a Brasilian 'exotic ethnic' than a Portugese savage conqueror. Don't forget what the Portugese did to "their" Jews in the 15th century!
26. Sally
Márcia ,   Brazil   (01.31.08)
It's not you, Sally. It's the mentality behind your words. A succession of mistakes does not make a culture. To think otherwise is patronizing. It’s imprisoning and diminishing. No learning! No improvement! No redemption for Brazilians -- “Stay just as you are.” Although you may not be aware of it, this is exactly what you've said. Shalom!
27. Marcia u r saying it & won't admit 2 urself! a real pity
Sally Forth ,   Jerusalem of course   (01.31.08)
that u r blind 2 ur own imperfections and only interested in finding wrong in others!
28. bad taste
michoel ,   miami   (02.01.08)
As a Brazilian Jew, I have to say it is extremely tacky or just plain bad taste... I know they were trying to be artistic and raise some awareness, but there are more tasteful ways of doing it... How about a float with some descendents of survivors? There are plenty in Brazil...
29. #13
michoel ,   miami   (02.01.08)
More than half of Brazil's population is white... you're just ignorant...
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