Opinion
Say no to ‘kosher buses’
Zahava Fisher
Published: 03.02.08, 11:08
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53 Talkbacks for this article
1. say no to secular israel!
yoni ,   jerusalem   (02.03.08)
say no to the ignorance of judaism wide spread among the seculars. say no to the stupidity of the left wing religion haters say no to the loss of all values in israel say no to the lack of truth and honesty say yes to the values of the torah and hold on to them for life!
2. Nothing "kosher" about these busses. It's TALIBAN
Sergio ,   Israel   (02.03.08)
It's the ways of the goyim, and the worst, not of the Children of Israel and CERTAINLY NOT THE WAY OF TORAH!
3. You idiots, the one gave birth to you is a woman.
Daniel ,   Israel   (02.03.08)
Why disgrace your mother? This is what I don't like about Jewish extrimists.
4. Fight for freedom and democracy
Simon ,   TA Israel   (02.03.08)
Now they are trying to ban woman from buses thats when they are not actually attacking them are trying to drag us back to the dark ages. The ultra orthdox who dont actually work , pay taxes or serve in the army are step by step taking away freedom and democracy in an attempt to force their life style on other people. This is related to them trying to ban the gay parade as we are marching for freedom and decoracy for all.
5. Why let women go out in public?
Terry ,   Eilat, Israel   (02.03.08)
For the sake of modesty, perhaps women should be confined to their homes & not go out at all. We can ban women from all schools, restaurants, cinemas, hospitals, clinics, banks, gov't. offices, & public parks. Women members of the Knesset can communicate by computer, no webcams of course. Women's place is in the home, after all, not in public where, heaven forbid, someone might see them. At the very least, they should be veiled, covered from head to toe. It seems to me that the Haredim have been reading the Qur'an - maybe they should start reading the Torah instead.
6. Nothing to do with democracy
Antonio ,   Haifa   (02.03.08)
Democracy is just voting for political leaders. A democracy may even outvote women in public. This is not about democracy or rights. If they want these buses, they should pay for it. If their women don't want to live this way, they can live any other way they please. There are still some freedoms (but very little democracy) in this country, and women can enjoy them if they so please.
7. If they want segregation
Avi ,   Israel   (02.03.08)
Let men sit at the back of the bus and women up front. Why not? let's see if these religious nutters would like it Let men pay the driver and then walk out the bus and reenter through the back door. They want segregation, give it to them big style
8. Common Sense
Phillip ,   new york   (02.03.08)
I hope that logical and common sense prevails. The idea of segreated public buses is a disgrace to all. If a man is unable to sit next to a famale. He can take a taxi!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
9. men's dress
reader ,   tel aviv   (02.03.08)
Men's dress can be offending. I've seen enough rear divides. Maybe drivers should make men turn around and demonstrate that their pants are up high enough.
10. face the music
eliezer ,   jewrusalem   (02.03.08)
this is becoming a more religious state, there aint much to do, they got more and more babies than you, they stay and you leave, they are taking over, soon even Tel Aviv will have kosher buses.
11. proceedings open?
rachel ,   jerusalem, israel   (02.03.08)
does anyone know if there are going to be public proceedings for this issue? if so, when and where?
12. Say No to Kosher buses
Millicent ,   Israel   (02.03.08)
I still find it hard to believe that in this day and age people cannot sit together on buses, what is the the South before Civil rights Marches? This is what happens when there is no Constitution or Bill of Rights in a country! Instead the religious MINORITY wants everyone to be like them and demads that the gov. act in their interests not in the interests of the majority of the nations' people! If A religous man doesn't want to sit next to a woman out of fear of not being able to control his sexual urges then it is his problem, and maybe he should walk or drive his car , or take a cab! I have seen religious women take specially charted buses for that purpose, why should the secular citizens be inconvienced? If a Secular man can control his urges on a public bus why can't a religous man? Equality for all is what is needed here under the LAw whether you are a man, woman, Jewish, Muslim, Christian, Ethopian,etc we are all equal in Gd's eyes and should be treated as such!
13. Torah doesn't say anything about rules of riding a bus
E ,   Canada   (02.03.08)
If they want these buses, they should pay for them. Public buses are just that, public. A Jewish State should follow Torah rules, not minority rules.
14. #! and #2
Hilda ,   US   (02.03.08)
Cheers to Sergie and boo to Yoni. We are not like the Muslims which treat women like slaves and worse. Nowhere in the Torah does it say that women are lesser than men and should be treated as one would a pet dog or cat. You are not commiting adultery if women are allowed to sit in the same bus and if you don't want to sit near one then you go stand in the back.
15. This article has it completely BACKWARDS!
Dave Neil ,   Jerusalem Israel   (02.03.08)
Funny I grew up Conservative in the States and they kept telling everyone that Orthodoxy discriminates against women. HOW UPSIDE DOWN CAN YOU BE?! Living a secular lifestyle, in a culture which objectifies women, is MUCH more discriminating for women than living an Orthodox lifestyle. My wife and I our so glad our daughters are being raised in a very frum (religious) community. In the non-Orthodox world premarital sex is the norm. Why buy the candy when you can eat what you want and throw away the rest? As a result more and more non-Orthodox women find they are getting married later and later- if at all! Compare that to the Orthodox where everyone is getting married at about 22 and 23 (wanna shock yourself?- check out www.onlysimchas.com -you will be amazed!) Noone in our community has T.V. or internet in our house We’re glad our children aren’t on the internet. A Torah lifestyle is so much more non-discriminating to women than an American lifestyle. The first man to touch a daughter of mine will be the one to marry her. How many non-Orthodox fathers can say that?! How sad secular girls have to be raised to think that they have to be models and forever young- a guaranteed formula for depression and low-self worth. What's more discriminating against women- living a secular way of life or being religious? Think about it. After being on both sides of the fence it is clear to me!!! PS What kind of meshuga wrote this stuff- consider a quote from above: "We cannot say that a woman who is minimally dressed is immodest.." i guess that's right up there with "we can't say that those who murder us and teach their kids to hate us don't really want to live with us in peace". pity ynet publishes such rubbish.
16. Silly to equate this to apartheid
Ilan ,   Ariel   (02.03.08)
Separation on buses could just as easily be compared to separate restrooms in public places. A measure of separation is not outrageous. Similarly some sort of compromise on dress in public is not the same as racism. If women and men are demanded to wear shirts to get on a bus that is the taliban? Get serious please.
17. Fabulous idea
Mrs. (one of many) ,   non chareidi   (02.03.08)
I am not chareidit (and don't even cover my hair) and I think its fabulous, no smelly men around! Loads of ( secular) women go to the segregated beaches , in order not to pestered by apes and other creatures. Ayzeh Kef! I look forward to it. It's as great as the Ezrat Nashim, also a brilliant invention, we love it. Peace and quiet and peace of mind for a few minutes, yummy! I don't go ( it's not our crowd) to many separate weddings etc, but I love the camaradarie at the ladies tables, when I do go, occasionally. Always a good chat and a laugh available. Dancin' is groovy there too.
18. The truth
Aharon ,   Givat Shmuel Israel   (02.03.08)
Whether or not you support mehadrin buses, they are not related to Democracy, (something Israel lacks as the last free election was in 1984). When leftists talk about Democracy it is similiar to the Bolsheviks talking about the people, it is simply a means to shut up opposition.
19. Say NO to a goyishe lifestyle
david ,   FRANCE   (02.03.08)
Its a great idea kosher buses. I think we re on the way of being a real jewish state. Not some cheap copy like mr herlz wanted.
20. Whaaaaat?
Shimon ,   Cincinnati, OH, USA   (02.03.08)
Yeah...Apartheid....Make Jimmy Peanut Carter proud...Do it to the Arabs AND the women. HEY! Here's an idea: Maybe the ridiculous control-freak religious Ayatollahs would be willing to sit at the front of the bus going to BAKUM, the front lines and Gaza. Wow! Dream on. What a ridiculous country Israel must look like to the world.
21. #19
Israeli woman   (02.03.08)
Stay in France and let US decide what WE want for OUR state
22. what do you do when it's raining?
hanina   (02.03.08)
leave the ladies in the rain as the men board and thumb a goodbye as they drive off?
23. Say NO to taking away rights
Jakov   (02.03.08)
Let everyone sit together on the bus. These kosher buses are a waster of ta money, which would be better used in getting newer buses and better maintenace of the exisiting fleet. Maybe there could also be new routes as well. See now, it starts with the kosher buses, but then perhaps, they will also want to take away women's right to vote? or to drive? The public needs to continue to strive for a just society-not segregation.
24. I'm all for segregated busses!
Daniel ,   Tel Aviv Israel   (02.03.08)
As long as they are paid for and subsidized wholly by those who use them. It is unfair of a segment of the population to demand we all contribute to a public transportation system that then segregates that public. But if these buses can be self supporting and or funded wholly by the religious users of the bus than I have nothing to say about such a PRIVATE venture.
25. "Kosher" Buses Wrong and a Misnomer
Brana Lobel ,   Israel   (02.03.08)
1)I'm not "milk "and some guy "meat" or even vice versa, so this is a real distortion and misuse of the word kasher. Whoever started this word usage is a misleader and deceiver. 2)The extensive separation of men and women is a haredi minhag stemming from suppositions that the prevailing sin of men nowadays is lust. Without commenting on the accuracy of this supposition, the haredi have no right to force other Jews to conform to this minhag, any more than Ashkenazim have a right to force Sefardim not to eat rice on Pesach. 3)The chazal (sages) did not enforce gender separation 2000 years ago when Israel was full of Romans and other pagans including hookers which you can see by reading the gemara. So are our latterday religious so much smarter than the chazal? Everyone who is religious knows they are dumber. 4)I personally am comfortable with self-determined separation as it provides distance from a certain unpleasant segment of the population but I would never dream of making it an enforcement. Those who try to enforce this on public conveyances are acting like hooligans.
26. dressed for the bedroom? stay there
SA ,   Jerusaelm   (02.03.08)
Sorry, but women who dress in revealing clothing are clearly advertising something, even if they retain control over to whom they "sell." We've accepted bans on offensive advertising in public places. I don't see the difference.
27. Qur'an does not say to segregate women
Karima ,   USA   (02.03.08)
Women in Prophet Muhammad's time fully participated in public life. The idea of the harem and purdah came from Persia when Islam spread to that area. It is time for all religions to abandon this stupid, unjust, and completely unnecessary practice of segregating women.
28. What a bunch of lies!!!
Daniel   (02.03.08)
I'm ashamed of you. You are the worst of our people. You are a living Chillul Hashem. The Charedi way of life has been around before you and will continue after you. The Charedim are faithful to their wives, have low divorce rates and have family purity. Your Tev Aviv buses where everything goes has brought over a million abortions, and over 50% divorce rate. How dare you compare this to the blacks. Your a fool! The Charedim protect there women, and they prefer to be protected. Respect the culture that is Gods way of life and has outlasted everything else.
29. Kosher buses?
Frank ,   Canada   (02.03.08)
Such buses are certainly not kosher. My grandparents in Algeria were much more religious and more pious than any of these so-called orthodox but there was not this kind of separation between men and women over there. These orthodox are not Jews, they are Arabs.
30. fundamentalism is anathema to human advancement
Steve   (02.03.08)
I am eternally thankful to G-d for instilling within me the wisdom to live a sane and rational secular lifestyle.
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