Opinion
Should I stay or should I go?
Raanan Shaked
Published: 25.03.08, 00:50
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58 Talkbacks for this article
31. Third World Indeed
Anneline ,   Gothenburg, Sweden   (03.25.08)
I would not live in such a third world place - too many disgusting insects and cockroaches everywhere, miserable looking women and hassled by Arabs because I am a blonde woman - thanks but NO THANKS
32. moving and sad. but what to do?
j ,   nyc   (03.25.08)
33. Raanan Shaked dreams of a job at the NY times
Kyle ,   Southpark, CO, USA   (03.25.08)
They already have all the retards they can use.
34. #19
David ,   USA   (03.25.08)
Michelle, you have a beautiful soul.
35. This is the qustion ????????
Rami Abu Ghalyion ,   Cairo-Egypt   (03.25.08)
When people feel that they are the strongest side,When the strongest side defeated the weaker party,he Wants to occupy more and more, want to kill more and more, want expansion more and more,This is Feeling of the strongest party and this is normal feeling..not only Israel .. France killed million Algerian but the Algerian people didint give up and they were defending about thier legitimate rights personally,as Palestinian citizen I Am just felt sad when I read this article and this sorrow not stems from hatred am just felt that thers is no other place for the both sides Unfortunately ..as you have ppl who Support idea of kills the palestinian idea of colonizing their land .. the idea of expelling Palestinians from the West Bank to Jordan .. idea of expelling Palestinians from Gaza Strip to Egypt There is also inside of the Palestinian society whom believes in that that the Jewish people must be expelled to the sea ...Historicaly Palestine must return to their original owners Which it means there is an extremism, and racism to the two sides.. For the survival of Israel in order to not allow the Muslim extremists access to powe Israel must abandon the theory that Arabs and Muslims are the enemies,Israel must abandon the policy of a building of settlements under the pretext of population growth,However, without radical change in Israel's policy with her neighbours nothing is going to change Feeling of fear and insecurity for the future will not change
36. Re: # 28
Disgusted Settler ,   Kfar Tapuah, Ephraim   (03.25.08)
It's not about serving in the army. It seems to me that you are (idol)worshipping the army. The army attacked Jews in Gush Katif three years ago, remember? Individual soldiers may be Jewish, but it is not a Jewish army any more. Israelis, find your way to G.d and become Jewish. That is what's missing in this article: G.d and Judaism. What a complete moral bankruptcy transcend from the seculars and from the secularists! What a chilul (void of) Hashem!
37. I have lived in Israel for 37 1/2 years
don Saliman ,   Nahal Oz, Israel   (03.25.08)
Israel is above all, my home, I raised 4 sons here. When I do go back to the states to visit family & friends,I have a wonderful time,but my heart and soul are here in Israel and I have never even thought of going back to the states to live,even thru these hard times with rockets falling all around me and my wife. The question of leaving or staying has never crossed my mind. Keep the faith
38. Serious political reform could change everything
Raymond from DC ,   Washington, DC USA   (03.25.08)
Think about it. Replacing the party mediated political system with district based representation would introduce real accountability. Follow that up with real separation of powers, checks and balances, etc. What comes next is reform of the executive branch, a professionalized civil service, an end to politicized prosecutions, and enforcement of the rule of law. A reallocation of funding from those schools that won't even teach "core subjects" to higher education will revitalize the universities. And when we get a leadership accountable to the people rather than the parties or the White House, we can truly begin acting like "a free people in our own land".
39. In America, you would have to join "Workaholics Anonymous"
Jake   (03.25.08)
As the U.S. has become more cut-throat competitive, hard-working, money oriented, and chaotic than it has ever been. Hedge funds, mortgage crises, collapsing health care, longer working hours, broken homes, and a war costing trillions. Life is no cake walk in the Goldene Medina, even for those who worship the Almighty Buck above all else.
40. #20, that's an advice for you, my friend
Jake   (03.25.08)
"RUN FOR THE BORDER!!! " "it may take a kick in the head to open their eyes. " This is an advice for you, habibi.
41. leave the country or stay
sad ,   israel   (03.25.08)
best advise - if posible LEAVE, with ohlmert n co. in charge - follow their example. their children n money r not in the country. they r all TOTAL FAILURES. i m on my way out. as soon as my childen leave i m on the next plane. ohlmert has his millionaire friends in the usa that are willing to take care of him and his family......his wife is the most coirryot and dishonest, I have facts. whatever happened to his brother????????? no one ever questions him???????? the country has deteriotated to a state of no return.
42. Despite all, Israel needs YOU ! Stay !
Abel Shoni ,   France   (03.25.08)
"O hope of Israel, its Savior in times of distress, why are you like a stranger in the land, like a traveler who stays only a night?" Jeremiah 14:8
43. ANY RELATION TO ALIK WAKED?
BRACHA MIRON ,   TIBERIAS ISRAEL   (03.26.08)
Sure. Who is writing this tripe?
44. Stay or Go
Yael ,   USA   (03.26.08)
"We really don’t have another country, because no other country will offer us citizenship, work, and a realistic chance of integration" I don't think this is true at all. Try it and find out. You might be surprised.
45. LET ALL MOVE TO EGYPT BACK WITH PHARO!!!
(03.26.08)
46. Yael, #44, you are joking, right?
Jake   (03.26.08)
Green Cards for 6 million Israelis? Lol that's a joke. After the first 10,000 arrive, they would already be accused of 'occupation' and establishing 'illegal settlements'. Think nothing about the author's defeatism. No dear. The number of Jews in Israel is growing and growing, while it is the Jewish community in the USA that is dwindling by the year.
47. #31 actually
(03.26.08)
You got hassled because you look like a man. Please refrain from calling Israel a third world country. Go back to Sweden and eat a danish. Oh and send me one too. At least you can have some manners. If I thought all swedes were like you I'd conclude you were a nation of boors and barbarians with ugly blonde women that look like men.
48. You Must Stay
NU Stay WeNeedIsrael ,   North West, USA   (03.26.08)
Christians need you to stay in Israel,
49. Should I Stay or Go
Millicent ,   Israel   (03.26.08)
Yael, most Israelis that move to the USA intergrate nicely into American society. There are plenty of cities with large Jewish populations that are flourishing(South Florida has a large Jewish population from West Palm Beach south to Miami Beach) and New York City area has an equally large Jewish population. So don't allow anyone to tell you that Israelis don't assimilate well to life in the US I know many living there who say they will never return here!
50. to 48
sahar ,   jerusalem   (03.26.08)
you means you do not need more jews in america or europ or do you mean that you need arab andmoslemaway fromamerica and europfair or justyou want to supportyour positionwithout both arab moslem and jewsatlast inany situation youare radical .letevry one to decide his need not yours
51. # 36 LET ME REPHRASE THAT FOR YOU
Simon ,   TA Israel   (03.26.08)
Discusting settler i think is more appropriate. You are living on stolen land, winge and whine and threaten all you like , you will be removed sooner of later !
52. That old song...
Alexander ,   Ramat Gan, Israel   (03.26.08)
I have no other land even if my land is on fire Only a Hebrew word Pierces into my veins, into my soul - With an aching body, with a hungry heart, Here is my home. I will not stay silent Because my country changed her face I will not give up reminding her And sing in her ears- until she opens her eyes. Shaked can do what he wants. Myself, I am staying.
53. #38 Raymond, Israel has a far more democratic system than
Eli ,   Jerusalem   (03.26.08)
the US. Coalition building and party representation in the Knesset without district obligations means all views get a voice, not just two major parties that often operate in politically convenient districts. The US system works for a large country, but in a small country, you can actually have more than a two party system. American democracy is a bit outdated, and would likely improve a bit if it moved to become democratic in the direction in which Israel operates. After all, the US still has an equivalent to the House of Lords - the Senate - an electoral system, districts that are formed by political parties in power, and a near impossibility for fringe voters to have representatives in government according to their proportions, it seems that system is actually the one that could benefit from reform. Israel just needs a new crop of leaders.
54. Millicent, #49, you fail to understand American situation
Jake   (03.26.08)
"Yael, most Israelis that move to the USA intergrate nicely into American society. There are plenty of cities with large Jewish populations that are flourishing" Millicent, try taking off the tinted specs for a moment. You are seeing the grass greener on the other side. First off: American Jews and Israeli immigrants to America are 2 starkly different entities that do not naturally gravitate toward one another. They see eachother as culturally distinct (Yiddishkeit vs. modern Hebrew culture being only one example). They also have different political orientations, and Israelis often tend to seek other Israelis for company. There are many Israeli immigrants of course who immersed themselves in American culture, but that did not stop their children who were born in United States from identifying themselves primarily as Israelis. Many of them have expressed an interest to move to Israel. And there is another issue at play: American society, now at 300 million people, no longer desires a large influx of new immigrants. There are the immigrants who fulfil the need for cheap labor, but Israelis do not fit that mold. People in Europe once saw America as the same "Goldene Medina" that we did, but it is no longer cool to want to emigrate to America because people are now aware that the streets not paved with gold. It is also singularly unpatriotic (something that Americans tend to deprecate, FYI). The sad thing is that you seem to be suffering from the same syndrome that most people recovered from decades ago. Many Israeli youth who had come to America in the hope of getting jobs for which they were qualified ended up having to do menial tasks and odd jobs, or becoming nannies, or peddle their wares at shopping malls as 'travelling salesmen'. A lot of them ended up returning to Israel after becoming disillusioned with the 'Goldene Medina'.
55. Jake
Millicent ,   Israel   (03.26.08)
I am an american living in Israel for the past 18 years. When we decided to make alyiah all our Israeli friends told us we were crazy to leave America for Israel. They all had no problems adjusting to life there, and have never set foot here since. So there are plenty of Israelis living there happily. And life is better there,no one walks around thinking of terrorist attacks,Iran attacking, the ineptness of Olmert's gov, !
56. Millicent #55, what a difference 18 years makes
Jake   (03.26.08)
You are absolutely correct that Israelis who immigrated to United States in decades gone by ridicule Americans who decide to go the other way. My Israeli-American cousins indeed ridicule the notion of moving back to Israel, or any Jews from America who would even contemplate such a move. However, in the meantime, their children are making Aliyah. They certainly have more money in the bank and larger homes than their Israeli siblings, but they are clearly less happy and more lonely. As for our Israeli friends in the US, most have either made Aliyah outright (and happy about it) or spend several months a year in Israel. Obviously, the problems that exist in Israel appear formidable because they are all jam-packed in a tiny swathe of territory the size of New Jersey. Tragedy always strikes close to home. But all the dire forecasts the author predicts for Israel are in fact no less true for United States and other developed nations. "We know that it will become more vulgar around here. More violent. Hotter. Less convenient." And if you believe that leaving Israel for United States will mean a respite from the threat of violence and terrorism, perhaps you ought to familiarize yourself with the tragic case of Liviu Librescu.
57. True & Must read this people of israel
Abey ,   Te Aviv   (03.26.08)
Understand one thing people of israel, all what is happenning right now in israel is mentioned in the 5th book dvarim in the torah. If you think this will go any different then you are wrong . If israel doesnt start understanding why it is israel from the torah then she cannot call herself israel and hashem will not let her call her self israel. If non shabbat keepers think they will survive this look at the holocust, thats what we also thought most of the 6 million
58. Get a grip !!
Big Bill ,   Cambridge, MA   (03.28.08)
Enough self-pity! You live where you live. It is what it is. No one said one's homeland was going to be nice, or friendly, or honored. It is just ... home. Coming to America or Canada, or New Zealand, or Australia really isn't a good thigng either. Over here in the galut, Jews blame the goyim for everything and live in an artificially heightened fear ... deliberately ... forever. Its like pretending to be a Palestinian in Gaza. Who wants to live with such paranoia. Go ask Abe Foxman, who sees blood-crazed Christians jumping out of the woodwork, attacking Jews, everywhere he turns. You really don't want your children to grow up like that, with that kind of visceral fear about people with other religions. Or rather, if you do, it is better to feel that way in a country where you rule, for heaven's sake, not in the Anglosphere where you would be in the minority. Hell, look at it this way. You may have to live with the goyim no matter where you go, but at least you can be in the majority in Israel rather than living like some minority neurotic fearful Jew in America. Don't go to America.
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